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RKKA (The Russian Army) in World War II Discuss the Russian armed forces in World War II. Hosted by our resident Russian expert, AMVAS. Please visit his RKKA in WW2 Website.

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  #31  
Old 10 Oct 07, 22:47
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Originally Posted by matasso View Post
Many thanks Alex,

So Imushetvo is generic, ok so it explains a lot; I suppose then torgovo/torgovaya are commercial so it would explain the romanian targ = market, negociation... hehehe, even a latin language can have influences

Mat
There are many buerocratic nuances.

At first it is necessary to know for why do you need to get the exact answer? What scale of the understanding ofthe subject is necessary for you?

1. Torgovo-zagotovitelnaia - as I know it was about commercial state shops which traded in wooden and unexplored areas.

At first they sold good for the local people - torgovaia - commercial.

At second they bought goods - fells, gold, and so on - from local hunters, gold-diggers and so on - zagotovitelnaia (getter)

Usually it looked so - a hunter entered there, sold his goods (fells, for example) and bought some good of the shop.

2. Imuschestvo... Hmmm...

When I served in Russian army 10 years ago (tank troops) there were "bronetankovoe" [armoured] "imuschestvo" and "vooruzhenie".

I can translate "imuschestvo" as munition, "vooruzhenie" as equipment.

"vooruzhenie" - everything that can be used in fights - tanks, AFVs, machine guns, guns

"imuschestvo" - auxiliary property - boots, cleaning rag, trucks, tractors, cars and so on.

I don't remember to which ammo (shells, bullets) belongs, I think it is "vooruzhenie".

so you qustions are not so easy.
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  #32  
Old 12 Oct 07, 05:50
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translations

Thanks Andrey,

The context is simple. WW2 Soviet Army support units and bases according to the Perechen lists. You have something that is called Military Commercial bases with I suspect werte used to trade as you say in military areas or later in occupied/liberated countries.

Anyway I think I understood. Many thanks

For the same period repair units I also have some questions:

Sborn'y Punkt avariynikh mashin? - recollection points for damaged vehicles? not sure for the writing

Masterskaya?


Many thanks
Mat
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  #33  
Old 12 Oct 07, 05:56
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Originally Posted by matasso View Post
For the same period repair units I also have some questions:

Sborn'y Punkt avariynikh mashin? - recollection points for damaged vehicles? not sure for the writing

Masterskaya?


Many thanks
Mat
It was the place where damaged vehicles (tanks, trucks and so on) were concetrated for future repair.
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  #34  
Old 12 Oct 07, 06:07
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Originally Posted by matasso View Post
Sborn'y Punkt avariynikh mashin? - recollection points for damaged vehicles? not sure for the writing

Masterskaya?
Andrey is right, it's a place for collecting of damaged vehicles (mostly they were tanks damaged in fights and evacuated from battlefield).
Those places are also known as "SPAM" (don't mix with junk e-mails )
They weer intermediate collectors before vehicles were moved further to workshops (masterskaya), or plant for repair.

Regards
Alex
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  #35  
Old 12 Oct 07, 06:32
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translations

Many thanks Andrey and Alex,

You're top of the tops

Mat
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  #36  
Old 12 Oct 07, 18:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amvas View Post
Andrey is right, it's a place for collecting of damaged vehicles (mostly they were tanks damaged in fights and evacuated from battlefield).
Those places are also known as "SPAM" (don't mix with junk e-mails )
They weer intermediate collectors before vehicles were moved further to workshops (masterskaya), or plant for repair.

Regards
Alex
As I remember from my lectures about tank tactics such places were called Sbornyi Punkt Povrezhdennykh Mashin (SPPM) and not SPAM.

Last edited by Andrey; 13 Oct 07 at 02:59..
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  #37  
Old 13 Oct 07, 02:17
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As I remember from my lectures about tank tactics such places were called Sbornyi Punkt Povrezhdennykh Mashin (SBPM) and not SPAM.
After the war they could be renamed
Check this work (In Russian)
http://militera.lib.ru/science/radzievsky_ai/04.html
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  #38  
Old 19 Oct 07, 16:59
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Sorry I was out for some days
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrey View Post
Guzhevoi transport - the oficial name of horse-drawn carts
Andrey,

I would like to apoligize - I did not speak clear enough in my previous post, sorry. Certainly I know the meaning of word 'Guzhevoi'. I meant we know that lots of soviet troops in WWII used horse-drawn carts and of course they usually were named as 'Guzhevoi transport' but I have never come across any using of supply name with the adjective 'Guzhevoi'. But IMO there was no doubt that all those carts needed large amount of special supply to operate for a long time period. So it seems quite reasonable to establish special services and depots for that. Of course for mechanized troops it sounded as anachronism - you are right - but in this case we can say about translation of word only. For instance we know US Army 1st Cavalry Division doesn't used horses anymore but it doesn't change the meaning of word 'Cavalry' in its name. It depends on translator how to interpret it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by matasso View Post
As for Obozno-Vechevoy is seems difficult because the units always appear as one in the Perechen Lists. Could it be simply horse transported clothing supply depots?
Mat,

I suppose our discussion showed you it is extremely difficult to find exact equivalent. IMO there are some ways:
1) to do it literally: something like "Train & Clothing Supply" or "Train,Clothing&Equipage Supply"

2) to focus on the main meaning:
English-Russian Military Dictionary by Sudzilovsky offers two variants for "Veschevoy sklad":
- baggage warehouse
- clothing depot
If you want to save the spirit of the times you may add "Train" before them

3) to make your own hybrid

Good Luck!
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  #39  
Old 23 Oct 07, 11:50
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The people who speak russian, do you know what is the meaning of the name "Yavka" or "Yaska"?.

A friend say me is a cossack order.
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  #40  
Old 23 Oct 07, 12:31
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Originally Posted by sentry thalako View Post
The people who speak russian, do you know what is the meaning of the name "Yavka" or "Yaska"?.

A friend say me is a cossack order.
"Yavka" is a spy term - it is a place for meeting of spies - a flat in a house.
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  #41  
Old 23 Oct 07, 13:36
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Originally Posted by sentry thalako View Post
A friend say me is a cossack order.
What meaning of word 'order' do you mean?
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  #42  
Old 23 Oct 07, 13:49
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1) According to the "Dictionary of live Great Russian language" by V.Dal', "Yaska" meant "star" in old South-Russian dialects. There was also pesonal name "Yaska". Nowdays, there is a frontier post and small city "Yaska" in Odessa province in the Ukraine.

So, I can suggest that "yaska" can mean something like 'all-round defence' set like a star.

2) "Yavka" can also mean 'arriving at cetain place', e.g. "yavka na sbornyj punkt" (arriving at assembly point/place).
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  #43  
Old 09 Feb 08, 08:44
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A long time ago, I studied Russian. Can you recommend a good book on Zhukov printed separately in Russian and English. I would like to spin up my vocabulary but want to ensure I translate correctly. Is there anything like this out there? I know this question is out of left field but I would appreciate any assistance. Thank you.
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  #44  
Old 09 Feb 08, 09:49
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Originally Posted by Prussian Havoc View Post
A long time ago, I studied Russian. Can you recommend a good book on Zhukov printed separately in Russian and English. I would like to spin up my vocabulary but want to ensure I translate correctly. Is there anything like this out there? I know this question is out of left field but I would appreciate any assistance. Thank you.
WWII books written in Russian vry rarely are translated into English...
Maybe it's better to study books
http://www.iremember.ru/content/cate...12/36/lang,ru/
And as you are interested in tank raiders loook for this one
http://www.iremember.ru/content/view/371/36/lang,ru/

Regards
Alex

P.S. This topic is not for books discussion, but for help in translation
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  #45  
Old 10 Feb 08, 07:56
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Prussian Havoc,

Unfortunately there are not too many books about Zhukov in Russian which can be supposed as really good IMO and I did not hear even one of them was translated into English, sorry.
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