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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Forum Resources > Armchair Attacks! > Greatest/Best Tank of WW2

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Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 An archive of the WWII Forum's Greatest/Best Tank mini-contest.

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  #61  
Old 01 Aug 12, 08:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
The books style of writing is exactly like those regimental histories by Patrick Delaforce, so if you like those I would say buy imo.
I find Delaforce quite variable in quality, as are regimental histories generally, some can be very, very interesting others, not.

Got it anyway
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  #62  
Old 01 Aug 12, 10:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooner View Post
I find Delaforce quite variable in quality, as are regimental histories generally, some can be very, very interesting others, not.

Got it anyway
I've got Peter Beale's 'Tank Tracks', which I thought was quite good.
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Last edited by panther3485; 02 Aug 12 at 04:37..
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  #63  
Old 03 Aug 12, 06:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panther3485 View Post
The polls are progressing steadily.

As of this date (7 July) 80 members have participated in the polls (at one level or another). This is starting to approach my originally hoped-for number and I am pleased with that. We have about three weeks left before the polls close.

The breakup is as follows:

Total number of members participating - 80
Poll with highest participation - Firepower (47)
Polls with lowest participation - Maintenance and Transport (34 each)
Number of Level 1 participants - 64
Number of Level 2 participants - 16


To all those who have voted

Thank you for your participation.
If you have not yet voted in all 12 polls, could you please check which ones you have missed and vote in those also. If you are not sure where you got to, please have a look either in the polls themselves or against your name in the attached Excel spreadsheet.


Level 1 participants: If you would like to have a dabble at level 2 and make some placings, feel free to have a go. You do not have to do the level 2 thing in all 12 polls; just the ones you are comfortable with. If you're not sure about anything just ask. Friendly support is ready and waiting for you.


Level 2 participants: Please make sure that you have, at the very least, made your 'primary vote' (#1 tank) in the ACG poll at the heads of all of the 12 polls. If you have not yet completed your placings for the remaining 20 tanks in all 12 and would like to do so, please complete them when you can. However, if you are not confident enough to make placings on all of the polls and would like to leave some of them as a primary vote only, that's OK too. As with level 1, friendly support is available whenever you need it.


After the polls close, I will spend a little time on the calculations and then give a summary/analysis of the results.

If anyone is not sure they understand how the averages (for unfilled cells) are going to be completed, or any other aspect of the process, please ask for clarification.


See you all at the end!
Below, just a brief update while I'm going through all the figures.

By the time of closure, the level of participation in these polls had been a little short of the 100 I was hoping for but it was still a fairly good turnout and certainly enough to produce a useful result, IMO.

The final breakup was as follows:

Level 1 participants - 68

Level 2 participants - 17

Total number of members participating - 85

Polls with highest participation (50 each)
  • Firepower
  • Proven Battlefield Performance
  • Production & Resources
Polls with lowest participation (39 each)
  • 'Soft' Factors
  • Cost of Running/Maintenance/Repair
  • Transportability & Deployment
______________________________________________


As for my progress with the number crunching, I have completed filling in the 'default averages' for unrecorded scores in Firepower, the first of the 12 polls. During the process, I decided to base the averages on the Level 2 results only and then use these for unrecorded scores for each tank, across all 12 polls, for all participants who have any gaps in their scoring. The reason is that Level 2 participants have - for the most part - awarded a score for all 21 tanks in each poll whereas Level 1 participants provide scores for only 1 tank out of 21 in each poll. The data provided from Level 1 participation, while certainly very welcome and making a valuable contributing to the overall outcome, is in itself too sparse to be used as a basis for averaging.

What all this means is that Level 2 participants - and especially those who completed scores at Level 2 in all 12 of the polls rather than just a few of them - will have the greatest influence on the averages; while Level 1 participants, and especially those who only voted in one or two of the 12 polls, will have the least influence. I believe this is fair as the level of influence is proportional to the knowledge and effort brought into this endeavour.


My work here, while enjoyable, is fairly time consuming; but after trying a few different methods with the Firepower poll and settling on what I believe to the the most useful and representative, the process should not take so long with each of the other 11 polls.

Once the results for all 12 polls have been completed, it will then be a matter of putting them all together to produce the final outcome. At this rate and with the amount of spare time available, I anticipate needing several more days up to maybe a week. Should make for some interesting stuff though, when it's all finished.


Best regards and thanks once more to all who participated,

panther3485

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Last edited by panther3485; 03 Aug 12 at 06:57..
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  #64  
Old 03 Aug 12, 14:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panther3485 View Post
Best regards and thanks once more to all who participated,

panther3485

And Thank You for all your hard work in conducting this poll of polls.

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  #65  
Old 03 Aug 12, 17:07
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Yes sir thank you indeed!
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  #66  
Old 03 Aug 12, 17:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
And Thank You for all your hard work in conducting this poll of polls.
Hear, hear!
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  #67  
Old 03 Aug 12, 22:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
And Thank You for all your hard work in conducting this poll of polls.

Ditto.

(Nick, did you draw that yourself?)
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  #68  
Old 04 Aug 12, 04:28
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Excellent work P3485. Thanks.
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  #69  
Old 04 Aug 12, 04:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBark View Post
Ditto.

(Nick, did you draw that yourself?)
Nope, way beyond my capabilities .
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  #70  
Old 06 Aug 12, 04:18
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Conclusion Best Tank ----Best Post

Conclusion Best Tank ----Best Post

Panther 3485
A very interesting results it’s good to see all the stats come together not sure if I will agree with the all answers… hope to see your conclusion

The selection of best ACG tank was a great post apart from enjoying it and learning heaps the information supplied is without doubt first class the best general (not fact & figures)info on tanks and should rate very high in any reference on World War II Tanks


Putting all the information supplied within (your) strict criteria is a great job…. Thanks… I can only give you a Rep point ….. Some-one should make it gong

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  #71  
Old 06 Aug 12, 05:13
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Thanks Martin, Nick, David, Chris, John and brod. ..................

Nice to be appreciated.

Just so everyone has an idea of how the numbers are progressing, I transferred all the data to another spreadsheet and in the process, separated the figures for Levels 1 and 2. As of yesterday, I had finished calculating all the averages for Level 2 and just started translating those averages across to all the blank spaces in the Level 1 section. I anticipate finishing that tonight or tomorrow.

After that, I'll continue with the following steps:
  • Add together the two sets of averages from Levels 1 and 2.
  • Divide by 2 for each tank in each of the 12 polls, to produce the final sub-scores. These sub-scores will show us the winner and runners-up against each of the 12 criteria.
  • Add the 12 sub-scores for each tank together, to give us the final winner and places based on overall scoring; and, therefore, the 'Greatest/Best Tank of WW2' as collectively determined by the members who voted in these polls.
I'll do a short summary of each poll, in the poll threads themselves and an overall summary & analysis in this thread.
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Last edited by panther3485; 06 Aug 12 at 05:28..
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  #72  
Old 06 Aug 12, 12:43
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Of course.
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  #73  
Old 07 Aug 12, 05:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panther3485 View Post
Thanks Martin, Nick, David, Chris, John and brod. ..................

Nice to be appreciated.

Just so everyone has an idea of how the numbers are progressing, I transferred all the data to another spreadsheet and in the process, separated the figures for Levels 1 and 2. As of yesterday, I had finished calculating all the averages for Level 2 and just started translating those averages across to all the blank spaces in the Level 1 section. I anticipate finishing that tonight or tomorrow.

After that, I'll continue with the following steps:
  • Add together the two sets of averages from Levels 1 and 2.
  • Divide by 2 for each tank in each of the 12 polls, to produce the final sub-scores. These sub-scores will show us the winner and runners-up against each of the 12 criteria.
  • Add the 12 sub-scores for each tank together, to give us the final winner and places based on overall scoring; and, therefore, the 'Greatest/Best Tank of WW2' as collectively determined by the members who voted in these polls.
I'll do a short summary of each poll, in the poll threads themselves and an overall summary & analysis in this thread.
Isn't the easy way to link each spread sheet into a master sheet with weighted values for each score which then get totaled to provide a sum for each tank?
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  #74  
Old 07 Aug 12, 08:25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broderickwells View Post
Isn't the easy way to link each spread sheet into a master sheet with weighted values for each score which then get totaled to provide a sum for each tank?
Possibly; but I have now almost completed the process and I should be able to begin posting results tonight.


Edit:

Final Result

OK everyone, I have finished collating, averaging and combining the numbers and I have a final result. I was going to post separate Poll outcomes on each individual Poll thread and then announce the overall result on this thread. However, after re-consideration and taking into account the very close finish (so close It feels like it might well have been a photo-finish if it was a horse race) I've decided to announce the result up front and post the details later.

Using the combined averages from both Level 1 and Level 2 participants, the result is as follows:

1st - M4 Medium (271.2)
2nd - T-34 (270.8)
3rd - PzKpfw IV (241.4)
4th - Churchill (227.6)
5th - Tiger I (222.6)
6th - Panther (206.8)
7th - PzKpfw III (203.2)
8th - IS-2 (193.3)
9th - Cromwell (179.3)
10th - M3 Medium (172.9)
11th - Valentine (160)
12th - PzKpfw 38(t) (158.3)
13th - Matilda II (143.2)
14th - KV-1 (143.1)
15th - Tiger II (141.3)
16th - BT-5/7 (141)
17th - Somua S-35 (129.3)
18th - Char B-1 bis (111.6)
19th - Type 97 (98.5)
20th - Crusader (76.9)
21st - M 13-40 (76)


Guys, that is so tight in some areas that out of curiosity, I decided to see how much the outcome would have differed if I was working with the more comprehensive Level 2 figures on their own. Using the averages from Level 2 participants only, the result would have been as follows:

1st - T-34 (269.1)
2nd - M4 Medium (269)
3rd - PzKpfw IV (240.6)
4th - Churchill (226.8)
5th - Tiger I (221)
6th - Panther (205.2)
7th - PzKpfw III (202.2)
8th - IS-2 (192.5)
9th - Cromwell (179.1)
10th - M3 Medium (172.9)
11th - Valentine (159.5)
12th - PzKpfw 38(t) (158.1)
13th - Matilda II (143.1)
14th - KV-1 (142.8)
15th - BT-5/7 (140.6)
16th - Tiger II (140.5)
17th - Somua S-35 (129.2)
18th - Char B-1 bis (111.5)
19th - Type 97 (98.5)
20th - Crusader (76.9)
21st - M 13-40 (75.9)

On that basis, M4 and T-34 would have reversed places, as would Tiger II and BT-5/7. Otherwise, the ranking would have remained unchanged.


No further comment from me at this stage apart from the obvious, which is that a mere one or two votes this way or that, with slightly different preferences could easily have changed the first two placings, whereas it would have taken a bit more to dislodge the PzKpfw IV from its position at 3rd place.


Over the next few days, I'll show the individual Poll results on each thread and then do my final wrap-up here.


Best to all,
panther3485
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Last edited by panther3485; 07 Aug 12 at 11:20..
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  #75  
Old 07 Aug 12, 14:18
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Good lord, that is a photo finish, in both pools.

Bravo Panther
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