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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > American Age of Discovery, Colonization, Revolution, & Expansion > American Revolution

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American Revolution 1763-1789 The birth of a new nation - to commence at the Proclaimation of 1763 to the end of the Articles of Confederation.

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  #46  
Old 25 Mar 12, 18:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copenhagen View Post
Your muzzle loaded M60. 2 rounds a minute. Your anglophobia is understandable . Most of us think Birmingham is a dump....
Never met my Granddad but maybe he instill this Anglophobe in me. My Mother, who came from a Welsh background, never spoke highly of the Johnny Bull's. I try to keep a more open closed mind.
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  #47  
Old 25 Mar 12, 19:03
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Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
Never met my Granddad but maybe he instill this Anglophobe in me. My Mother, who came from a Welsh background, never spoke highly of the Johnny Bull's. I try to keep a more open closed mind.
Yes I try to right off entire nations due to people I've met. Met an obnoxious drunk woman from Florida once while in Savannah. Disneyland is dead to me!
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  #48  
Old 25 Mar 12, 19:20
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Originally Posted by copenhagen View Post
Yes I try to right off entire nations due to people I've met. Met an obnoxious drunk woman from Florida once while in Savannah. Disneyland is dead to me!
Most people from Florida are obnoxious, but Disneyland is in California. For me CA is even more obnoxious than FL, but the UK being less than those two. My problem with England is that I've only spent a limited time in and around London, and that isn't England. At least I hope it isn't. My first visit to London left a very good impression. That was about 71. The last visit around about 98 left a taste like a Pub floor come Sunday morning. Really disappointed in how England/London had change over that time.

It is much more fun for me to come across as Anglophobe than a hat tipping knee scratched tea sweller. Ya got good/great beer for sure but your food still leaves a lot of room for improvement. After all is said and done I still consider you as
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  #49  
Old 25 Mar 12, 20:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
Most people from Florida are obnoxious, but Disneyland is in California. For me CA is even more obnoxious than FL, but the UK being less than those two. My problem with England is that I've only spent a limited time in and around London, and that isn't England. At least I hope it isn't. My first visit to London left a very good impression. That was about 71. The last visit around about 98 left a taste like a Pub floor come Sunday morning. Really disappointed in how England/London had change over that time.

It is much more fun for me to come across as Anglophobe than a hat tipping knee scratched tea sweller. Ya got good/great beer for sure but your food still leaves a lot of room for improvement. After all is said and done I still consider you as
My mistake Disney World.
No probs. Eating in the wrong places then I reckon. I know many places I could take you where frankly the standard takes some serious beating. I'm no jingoist but I am well travelled and objectively speaking the notion of us having bad food comapred to others is serious

As to London. Its changed out of sight since the 70's. Hugely actually. Don't enjoy much of it myself outside of certain areas of the West End that arent Leicester square or Picadilly Circus. No London isn't England in the same way as New York or Chatannoga aren't entirely America. I was out in the sunshine (no really) of rural England today. She's still a green and pleasant land.

Last edited by copenhagen; 26 Mar 12 at 05:33..
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  #50  
Old 26 Mar 12, 19:18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copenhagen View Post
Yes I try to right off entire nations due to people I've met. Met an obnoxious drunk woman from Florida once while in Savannah. Disneyland is dead to me!
Because of the preponderance of so many ancient, ossified, fusty-cuss, arseholes from Florida, with good reason, most people derisively refer to the state as "God's Waiting Room.".
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Old 27 Mar 12, 05:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbryan View Post
Because of the preponderance of so many ancient, ossified, fusty-cuss, arseholes from Florida, with good reason, most people derisively refer to the state as "God's Waiting Room.".
Fusty cuss arse- es
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  #52  
Old 31 Mar 12, 09:40
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‘Lots of food for thought in Massena's response. I notice much of it actually speaks to the quality of troops. Militia vs Continental. I think its clear that everyone would prefer to have a good experienced Continental regiment instead of a militia unit. However, the question involved with this thread would be, how valuable was the militia contribution to the war effort?’

No, the question on the thread is why did the US win. And in too many instances, the militia didn’t help with the eventual victory-they actually hindered it.

Sincerely,
M
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  #53  
Old 31 Mar 12, 09:40
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‘The realities of the day were that only x number of Continentals could be maintained in the field. The militia contribution wasn't really optional.’

And what ‘realities of the day’ were those? You’ve already been given the reasons why the Continentals could not reach their legal quotas of men in the field, and that is because of the generous bounties and much shorter enlistments of the militia. That is one of the main reasons why the Continentals were usually understrength.

Sincerely,
M
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  #54  
Old 31 Mar 12, 09:41
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‘As I noted before, it was again with the continental army and Gates incredible misuse of the North Carolina militia that lost the battle of Camden. In truth, almost all the major breakdowns of militia in the southern campaigns can be traced to failures by the various North Carolina militia. Very poorly armed and supported. Greene also had a great deal of trouble raising and utilizing the North Carolina militia. As previousl discussed, it was only after the VA regiments arrived that Greene was able to do Guilford.’

The Virginia militia also ran at Camden. And it was the arrival of the Virginia Continentals and militia that strengthened Greene’s army before Guilford. You’ve forgotten about the two new Virginia Continental Regiments that were present and did very well.

‘One last note on the southern militia (I think it also applies to the New England militia). By 1780, these guys were not amateurs but experienced fighters. After the backcountry occupation, the militia of SC and GA rose and pretty much stayed up constantly for the duration. For many, they would been home less than in the field. By the time of Greene's campaign with Rawdon, are they still considered militia? They remain without a lot of discipline yet they fight well.’

Some of the militia gained experience from active service, but as a general point of view that is incorrect. And yes they were still militia at Hobkirk’s Hill when Greene fought Lord Rawdon’s army. And the militia still ‘fought well’ sometimes, not all.

Sincerely,
M
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  #55  
Old 31 Mar 12, 09:42
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‘Perhaps true that, but for the Continental Army we could not have won the
War of Independence. However, I remain of the opinion that, but for the militia we could not have won the war of Independence. In my mind, the two ideas are both capable of being true without negating the other.’

You cannot support that thesis and I would actually love to see you try. The militia hurt the American effort overall during the war and the opinions of Washington, Greene, and others bear that out.

If you actually believe that, then you have fallen prey to the myths perpetuated in the immediate aftermath of the war that have unfortunately have remained, even though they have been disproven.

Sincerely,
M
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  #56  
Old 31 Mar 12, 09:44
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‘Yes, the old myths are alive and well. Right here in this conversation.'

I agree-and you're the one helping to perpetuate them.

'Bottom line, without substantial contribution from both militia and Continental Army, the War of Independence may have been lost.’

Without the Continental Army, the war would have definitely been lost. Without the militia, and therefore a larger, stonger Continental Army, the war might have actually been shorter. Have you read The Continental Army by Wright?

Sincerely,
M
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  #57  
Old 31 Mar 12, 09:44
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‘But the question isn't, How would you best allocate resources if you could rewrite the past? The question is, What happened and who gets how much credit?’

The question is: what were the reasons for the US win-and the militia hurt the US war effort in both the long and short run.


Sincerely,
M
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  #58  
Old 31 Mar 12, 09:45
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‘And I think the CA has its share of disgraceful moments. Need I mention New York? We could talk about any number of failures by the CA and the French. (Brandywine, Savannah, Charlestown, Monck's, Waxhaws, etc.) But, that isn't really the question either.’

Go ahead and mention New York-who ran at Kip’s Bay? It was the militia.

Brandywine was not a loss because of disgraceful conduct by the Continentals, Washington was outgeneraled. Listing losses does not prove anything-finding the causes of the loss does-it’s called historical inquiry.

Sincerely,
M
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Old 31 Mar 12, 09:46
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‘A lot depends on what you ask Militia to do! I don't think the typical Militiaman had a bayonet and if he did, he had no training with it. So forget about them standing in the open and getting cannon fire before the Bayonet charge! Now if you were in the woods and they could fight "Injun Style", they could shoot all your officers and NCO's!’

Most depended on if they actually stayed or not and if they had competent leadership. One militia regiment stayed and fought it out with the Maryland Division at Camden, quite possible because they were close by the Continentals when the rest of the militia hoofed it.

American troops fighting ‘Injun Style’ is just a bit overdone when discussing the Revolution. Most of the fighting was in the open, European Style, with formed bodies of troops going at each other.

Sincerely,
M
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Old 31 Mar 12, 09:46
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‘The Militia's best fight was at King's Mountain. Probably the best way they were ever used was at Cowpens.’

In actuality, the US forces at Kings Mountain were not militia per se, but volunteers and riflemen-they were a different type of soldier altogether. Two groups of them, under Campbell and Lynch, fought at Guilford Courthouse, brigaded with Continentals, and did very well there. Not your hometown-type of militiaman.

Sincerely,
M
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