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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Napoleonic Era

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Napoleonic Era Discuss the many wars fought around the globe around the time of Napoleon. This forum is dedicated to the memory of Ben Weider and our late friend and long time ACG Staff member, Michael Brown, better known here as Post Captain.

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  #46  
Old 23 Dec 08, 08:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratego View Post
Can I put Davout in overall command and leave Ney in Paris????
You hurt me, Sire.

Marshal Ney, Prince of Moskowa.

Paris, May 28, 1815.
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  #47  
Old 23 Dec 08, 09:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zouave View Post
Great job, Gaz!

We have to establish some rules:

-How far a unit can advance in a single turn ( in miles or kms? ). For example, a cavalry division moves faster than an infantry division or an infantry corps.

-What is the expected duration of a turn? I'm ok with 2 hours per turn.

-The influence of terrain and weather.
A few rules ideas...

Although the game will be based on specific rules, I'm thinking that in terms of play it should follow a more narrative structure.

Standard strategic turn 2-3 hours day/night.

Standard battle turn 1 hour.

Most units in the same Corps for example will move at the rate of the slowest member, regardless of their type. Unless forced marching, this usually seems to be at standard walking speed (allowing for hold ups etc). Allowance for bad or extreme weather will also slow things down.

In the past the system i've used is flexible so that commanders both on the spot and further away, cannot make accurate predictions or assessments of speed. This I think accurately simulates reality in many ways, for commanders often make assumptions about their subordinate commands which are wrong or misleading.

Example...

Very early (4AM) on the morning of the 16th june (turn 1 Strategic), Grognard (playing Zieten) recieves an intel report from his pickets south of Charleroi. He dispaches ADC's to his Brigades to begin assembling north of that town and he sends a message (50 word max) to Captainsennef (playing Blucher) regarding his intel. The latter is as far as he knows at Sombreffe about 8 miles away, so his message might take only an hour or so to arrive.

Now Grognards brigades (Prussian divisions) are spread wide, so it will take time for them to assemble and move. He can if he chooses visit one or more to gee them up a little, but this may cause problems if Blucher decides to reply to his message. The next few turns are as follows...

T1... Zieten rides south through Charleroi to recce the area himself.

T2... At 6AM he is hustling his men back through Charleroi with French cavalry scouts at his heels. Note that the situation of his other brigades is unknown to him.

T3... A battle turn begins as Zietens 1st Brig tries to hold the main bridge in Charleroi. Grognard himself (as Zieten) rides north to his supposed assembly point and finds to road to Gilly empty.

T4... Its 9AM and things are getting dicey. His first Brig is getting pushed out of Charleroi. 2nd Brig is to the north near Gilly. 3rd Brig is arriving at his HQ 2 miles north of Charleroi and 4th Brig and the Corps cavalry are no where to be seen (they in truth are conducting a fighting withdrawal to the east of him, after French forces crossed the river in that area. Finally a message (timed at Sombreffe 8AM) from Captainsennef arrives stating that he intends to assemble the army at Gilly, while directing Bulow (dgfred) to cover Namur.


Note that during this time Zietens main intel comes from what he sees with his own eyes, and for much of the time his Corps whereabouts is unknown to him. Finally he now has an important decision to make about where to make a stand to cover the army concentration. Should he try and contact Blucher again about the French attack on Charleroi, or their crossing east of that town.

I hope the above has given you and other members a taste of whats to follow and that you'll enjoy it.

Gaz
  #48  
Old 23 Dec 08, 09:13
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What's gonna be baffling me is how you'll manage to process all this info...I mean, look at all the players that will be involved!!!!
Will you use some kind of computergame to determine everyhing?



Greets,
StraFatOleon

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  #49  
Old 23 Dec 08, 09:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratego View Post
What's gonna be baffling me is how you'll manage to process all this info...I mean, look at all the players that will be involved!!!!
Will you use some kind of computergame to determine everyhing?



Greets,
StraFatOleon

I've done this many times before, and all with just my brain power and a paper and pencil. However any suggestions are always most welcome.

Gaz
  #50  
Old 23 Dec 08, 09:30
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Will battles be played on a battlefield itself, where the various corps and divisional commanders determine their moves (micromanagement)?



Greets,
StraFatOleon
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  #51  
Old 23 Dec 08, 09:36
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Example for Zouave...

Time 5AM 16th June

As Ney you are currently three miles south of Charleroi on the main highway to Rocroi. Beside you marching slowing northwards in the half light is Foy's Div of I Corps. D'Erlon (Legate) is a little way ahead of you with Jeromes Div. You know that Jacquinot has his Div spread ahead of the Corps to recce the area.

Suddenly the column halts (again) and a few minutes later, Legate arrives with the following intel...

Jacquinot's pickets are engaging in a musketry firefight on the southern outskirts of Charleroi with Prussian infantry, strength unknown (the SW prevailing wind prevemts you hearing the fighting for now).

Soon after this a message from Gen Jacquinot himself arrives...

Sir, I am engaging enemy cavalry at a deep ford across the river some two miles east of Charleroi. Enemy infantry are observed in support on the far bank and in the woods behind. Advise sir on whether to press the attack.


Now Z you have various choices.

You can IM me with what you intend to do and what D'Erlon should do. You can chat to D'Erlon directly (unlimited time). You can send a message (via me 50 words) back to the Emperor with what you know.

Hoping this has helped.

Gaz
  #52  
Old 23 Dec 08, 09:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratego View Post
Will battles be played on a battlefield itself, where the various corps and divisional commanders determine their moves (micromanagement)?



Greets,
StraFatOleon
If thats the kind of thing members would like, then no problem!.

Gaz
  #53  
Old 23 Dec 08, 09:45
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I think I'm getting the hang of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by allsirgarnet View Post
A few rules ideas...

Although the game will be based on specific rules, I'm thinking that in terms of play it should follow a more narrative structure.

Standard strategic turn 2-3 hours day/night.

Standard battle turn 1 hour.

Most units in the same Corps for example will move at the rate of the slowest member, regardless of their type. Unless forced marching, this usually seems to be at standard walking speed (allowing for hold ups etc). Allowance for bad or extreme weather will also slow things down.
Of course, a detached cavalry unit can move more rapidly.
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  #54  
Old 23 Dec 08, 09:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zouave View Post
I think I'm getting the hang of it.



Of course, a detached cavalry unit can move more rapidly.
Spoken like a true cavalry general, and yes of course they would. The emphasis in/of the game though is more to do with what its like to actually command as opposed to counting numbers or turns like in a normal wargame. As in life you will get desciptions or estimates of any enemy you observe or are told about. Take your cavalry division above. The only way for you to make sure it follows its orders to the letter is to ride with it, but this of course takes you away from the big picture and may cut you off from communications with the emperor.

Gaz
  #55  
Old 23 Dec 08, 09:52
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Will the map on post 39 be our starting positions in the game?
This way I can already start planning the initial moves...



Greets,
StraFatOleon
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  #56  
Old 23 Dec 08, 10:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratego View Post
Will the map on post 39 be our starting positions in the game?
This way I can already start planning the initial moves...



Greets,
StraFatOleon
I think a fair rule of thumb would be to consider your Corps (as you have the strategic initiative) in column of march anywhere on or behind the road connecting Avesnes and Givet on the evening of the 15th June. Perhaps a maximum of three Corps actually on that line, with the others behind them on the three roads leading south.

This of course would allow you to thrust through Mons, Charleroi and/or Namur as you so desire, for theres no reason for you to completely follow (if at all) Napoleons original plan.

Should your forces be on the above 'line' of the road, their advance elements SHOULD be expected to be approaching Mauberg, Charleroi and/or Dinant at first light on June 16th, if you so ordered.

Gaz
  #57  
Old 23 Dec 08, 10:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratego View Post
Ok, I'll play the Emperor.


Greets,
FATE Euhhhh....Stratego Euhhhh...Napoleon

VIVE L'EMPEREUR!




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  #58  
Old 23 Dec 08, 10:03
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Excellent pics Z...

Latest command update...

Napoleon (Fr) C-in-C - Stratego
D'Erlon (Fr) I Corps - Legate
Reille (Fr) II Corps - Post Captain
Gerard (Fr) IV Corps - Cambronnne
Lobau (Fr) VI Corps - General Brock
Ney (Fr) Wing Command - Zouave

Orange (Al) I Corps - Torien
Hill (Al) II Corps - Captain General

Blucher (Pr) C-in-C - Captainsennef
Zieten (Pr) I Corps - Grognard
Pirch II (Pr) II Corps - Jonathan4290
Bulow (Pr) IV Corps - dgfred


Gaz

Last edited by allsirgarnet; 23 Dec 08 at 16:43..
  #59  
Old 23 Dec 08, 10:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainsennef View Post
Welcome Bülow. von Ziethen ist schon here.

In a day or so, when we have two or three more generals,
we will have our first staff meeting.



In the meantime please do some map study (great maps BTW Gaz) and note down the issues you want to discuss.

Once the Allies have appointed a commander I'll contact him.
BTW: the position of Prussian liaison officer with Wellington's staff (general von Müffling) is still open too...

Blücher
Ready for action sir .
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  #60  
Old 23 Dec 08, 11:40
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Some game system info...

Command...

Every player is assumed to have a Staff with them, consisting of ADC's and other officers. In the C-in-C's cases this is a specific person or Chief of Staff (CoS), either Soult, DeLancey or Gniesenau.

All Staff have two functions. First is to collate incoming messages and intel, which is then held at the staffs location. Second is to be the target for those messages and intel, so that other commanders know where to send it.

Normally a players staff will accompany the player-commander, and so where a player designates themselves, thats where the staff is for communication purposes. However there may be times when a player-commander may wish to command a specific unit, or briefly and quickly visit another commander or area. If this happens then Communications comes into play.

Communications...

A player commander is either in or out of communications, depending on where his Staff is.

In communications means that the player recieves messages and intel immediately, and can respond in kind asap. It also means that unless they and the staff are with a specific 'unit' under their command, a little time will pass between orders being carried out.

Out of communications (away from staff) has various effects. First that the player-commander recieves no intel/messages. Second that they may not issues orders except to any unit they are with. The plus side is that they directly affect events wherever they are.

One exception applies to the above rules with regard to CoS's. They may be issued standing orders (50 word max) to take command locally if a certain event happens. They will also pass on any intel or messages they recieve, BUT most importantly they cannot issue orders or reply to messages themselves.

Orders/Intentions...

Game orders are a very simple concept, in that they are issued to me as if I was to carry them out as a subordinate. Its important to remember that unless orders are issued, previous orders will stand until met, after which your 'command' will be assumed to have halted while you heve either breakfast, dinner or a little snooze. Orders can be as brief or as extensive as you like, but being to extreme either way might cause confusion. Note to that a player commander can send orders Directly to another player IF they are together in game. If not together they have to go via me (50 words max). Intentions are simply what the player himself intends to do over the coming turn, with or without his staff.

Game play example...

Pre game Napoleon (Stratego) issues his campaign orders at a meeting of all his Generals/Marshals. Because they are all present 'in game', Stratego can send his plans/orders directly to his generals himself, and he will send me a brief outline of where both he himself and his Corps are at the game start. He can/will then give his own Intentions (orders) for the first turn.

His generals then return to their commands and staff (they are in communications). Each in turn will then message me about what their Corps/units and they themselves will do in the next turn.

I'll then begin the turn and make it happen. Following this i'll update players as and when needed until either their orders/intentions are carried out or a new event occurs.


Regards

Gaz
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