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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Napoleonic Era

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Napoleonic Era Discuss the many wars fought around the globe around the time of Napoleon. This forum is dedicated to the memory of Ben Weider and our late friend and long time ACG Staff member, Michael Brown, better known here as Post Captain.

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  #31  
Old 30 Jan 17, 04:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dibble201Bty View Post
The cheapest would have been to have plain cloth with cuffs only, dyed but I'm sure that apart from its cheapness, red would also be most practicle in reducing notable staining of mud, blood and grime showing up as much as it would if said plain cloth had been used.

Paul
thanks for the answer, but the use of red uniform for the English army date of this period no?
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  #32  
Old 30 Jan 17, 05:17
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Originally Posted by PGT Beauregard View Post
thanks for the answer, but the use of red uniform for the English army date of this period no?
No. Red (scarlet) was in use for a number of units well before - for example the Royal bodyguards founded by Henry VII. Whilst these are today a small ceremonial unit they were once a substantial fighting force with battle honours from Italy and France. Indeed they represented the permanent standing part of the English Army in the early Tudor period.
In the ECW large parts of the Royalist army wore white uniforms but other colours were used - there was even a battalion in purple! Many on both sides simply wore a plain buff jerkin and a coloured sash.
The new model army was founded as a matter of economic expediency. The Eastern Association found that they could no longer fund the units for which they were responsible so Parliament set up a new model with a nationally funded army. This had the effect of standardising uniforms etc and a venice red was chosen. Venice Red is not the scarlet traditionally associated with the British soldier and indeed Cromwell himself called it Russet. There are many unsubstantiated stories about why it was chosen, it may simply have been the colour that was readily available for a bulk order. The New Model army did not represent the whole of the Parliamentary force. It was disbanded after the Restoration. The English Army that replaced it went back to a motley of colours but with a substantial element of reds which gradually increased until by the time of Marlborough most of the infantry were in red.

venice red = http://www.art-paints.com/Paints/Acr...ce-Red-xlg.jpg
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  #33  
Old 30 Jan 17, 08:48
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Red does seem to have been quite common in the Tudor army
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ts.JPG (72.3 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg cg.JPG (89.6 KB, 6 views)
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  #34  
Old 30 Jan 17, 13:07
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The wearing of red by English soldiers seems to date back even further than the Tudors. In late 1483 Richard III banned all livery jackets (uniforms) except his own. These were red with a white boars head on the chest
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  #35  
Old 30 Jan 17, 13:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
No. Red (scarlet) was in use for a number of units well before - for example the Royal bodyguards founded by Henry VII. Whilst these are today a small ceremonial unit they were once a substantial fighting force with battle honours from Italy and France. Indeed they represented the permanent standing part of the English Army in the early Tudor period.
In the ECW large parts of the Royalist army wore white uniforms but other colours were used - there was even a battalion in purple! Many on both sides simply wore a plain buff jerkin and a coloured sash.
The new model army was founded as a matter of economic expediency. The Eastern Association found that they could no longer fund the units for which they were responsible so Parliament set up a new model with a nationally funded army. This had the effect of standardising uniforms etc and a venice red was chosen. Venice Red is not the scarlet traditionally associated with the British soldier and indeed Cromwell himself called it Russet. There are many unsubstantiated stories about why it was chosen, it may simply have been the colour that was readily available for a bulk order. The New Model army did not represent the whole of the Parliamentary force. It was disbanded after the Restoration. The English Army that replaced it went back to a motley of colours but with a substantial element of reds which gradually increased until by the time of Marlborough most of the infantry were in red.

venice red = http://www.art-paints.com/Paints/Acr...ce-Red-xlg.jpg
Thanks
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  #36  
Old 30 Jan 17, 15:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PGT Beauregard View Post
Thanks
Red as a universal standard colour for the English army infantry regiments dates from the New model in early 1645. Before that time, different regiments would have different uniform colours.

Though there were red coated units, there were many that were named whitecoats bluecoats, greycoats greencoats etc.

Here's a link to a good site on the subject.

https://www.baccus6mm.com/_paintingguides/ECW_Coats.pdf

This one's OK too

https://www.quora.com/History-of-Gre...coats-wear-red

Paul
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  #37  
Old 30 Jan 17, 15:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dibble201Bty View Post
Red as a universal standard colour for the English army infantry regiments dates from the New model in early 1645. Before that time, different regiments would have different uniform colours.

Though there were red coated units, there were many that were named whitecoats bluecoats, greycoats greencoats etc.

Here's a link to a good site on the subject.

https://www.baccus6mm.com/_paintingguides/ECW_Coats.pdf

Paul
And so it wsas in the ECW see my earlier post, The NMA was not the whole of the parliamentary or Royalist armies.
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  #38  
Old 30 Jan 17, 15:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
And so it wsas in the ECW see my earlier post, The NMA was not the whole of the parliamentary or Royalist armies.
But red was standardised for the colour of the English army from Feb 1645.
Before that date, there was no standard universal colour.

The cavalry arm went with both blue and red and later, the artillery went with blue. And even later, Rifle armed light infantry went with dark green

What you have to remember is that the Royalist army wasn't the precursor of the professional English Army but the New model was.

Paul
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  #39  
Old 30 Jan 17, 17:39
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Dibs, I don't know bugger all about uniforms but I love looking at the pictures.

Fantastic illustrations - just breathtaking some of them!

Thanks for posting.

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  #40  
Old 01 Feb 17, 03:29
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Just to note:

In post #3 Number 5 of the miniatures is not of an officer of the 2nd (Queens Royals), but is in fact, an officer of the 4th (Kings own). It's a miniature of Major James Warde Oliver, who died at Elvas, Portugal in 1811. that'll teach me not to cut and paste pre-edited lables

If anyone else has seen any mistakes, please don't hesitate to point them out.

Paul
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  #41  
Old 08 Feb 17, 15:35
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And this picture, which I find rather comical and would just love to know more about.



Paul
It might be the incident which made Samuel Godley of the Life Guards a hero. Look at the link I have posted below.

http://www.wlhg.co.uk/Other_documents/samgodly.htm
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Old 08 Feb 17, 15:41
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By the way Paul, I ordered "British Napoleonic uniforms" over Amazon now. You mentioned it somewhere, can't remember where. Can't wait to receive it. Hope it was worth the expenditure.
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  #43  
Old 09 Feb 17, 06:35
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Originally Posted by the Iron Duke View Post
By the way Paul, I ordered "British Napoleonic uniforms" over Amazon now. You mentioned it somewhere, can't remember where. Can't wait to receive it. Hope it was worth the expenditure.
If you are getting the 'Revised edition' then I can't comment. I have the hard-back first edition which has some peculiar anomalies like the uniform scarlet colour (and one or two facing colours), a couple of button spacing inaccuracies and the odd schematic misaligned button and lace detail , confusion with the Light cavalry section, which, isn't so much the fault of the author as it being all down to the mess that the numbering system was for those regiments at the end of the 18th century due in the main to disbanding and reallocating numbers etc, etc.

But all that aside, the book is the only real attempt at an illustrated, full colour regiment by regiment book ever published and a very good attempt it is too. I would still give it an Amazon five star rating for all its (first edition) faults.

Paul
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  #44  
Old 09 Feb 17, 06:49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the Iron Duke View Post
It might be the incident which made Samuel Godley of the Life Guards a hero. Look at the link I have posted below.

http://www.wlhg.co.uk/Other_documents/samgodly.htm
Thanks for that Christopher.

I have read many accounts of the battle but this one must have escaped me. Oh well! At least it shows that one never stop learning....

Paul
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Old 10 Feb 17, 01:15
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Paul
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‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
All human ills he can subdue,
Or with a bauble or medal
Can win mans heart for you;
And many a blessing know to stew
To make a megloamaniac bright;
Give honour to the dainty Corse,
The Pixie is a little shite.

Last edited by Dibble201Bty; 10 Feb 17 at 01:34..
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