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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > World War II

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World War II Discuss WW2. .

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  #526  
Old 16 Nov 17, 04:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenose View Post
Toungue-in-cheek. There was a period on the old IL-2 forums when this claim circulated, to the amusement of anyone with an above-room temperature IQ.

Have seen pics of overturned tanks that were caused by driver error, though probably this was sometimes also caused by a large blast at just the right angle and range.
I do remember those discussions, as I was on the IL-2 forums years ago.
Then and there, as well as (IIRC) occasionally in times past on these forums too, such claims have been made.
Under scrutiny, these inevitably melted away like light snow when the day warms up; and supporting arguments were routinely & comprehensively debunked.
Not quite as ridiculous as using U-Boats to form pontoons for a bridge across the Channel, to facilitate Operation S******; but heading in that direction.
I can recall a few individuals getting very hot under the collar and accusing more level-headed folk of all sorts of things, including "insulting veterans".

I'd be happy not to see the like again. ... But you never know.
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  #527  
Old 16 Nov 17, 06:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
That is a Panther. The access plates on the bottom match. You can just make out a U shaped tow ring on the back, and the tracks are definitely a German style and the right pitch for a Panther as is the torsion bar suspension.
Guys. Wow. You re amazing.
Could it also be a Jagdpanther?!?
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  #528  
Old 16 Nov 17, 07:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanov View Post
Guys. Wow. You re amazing.
Could it also be a Jagdpanther?!?
The member who first correctly identified and stated the basic type of that AFV, in this thread, does not consider himself to be in any way "amazing". (cough, cough)
However, he is unable to guess what those who followed might think of themselves.

Jagdpanther? I would say, 99 percent sure it's not.
For a start, the Jagdpanther was a very rare vehicle compared to the Panther which reduces that possibility (but of course, does not eliminate it).

Perhaps more telling are the physical shape and dimensions of the Jagdpanther's fixed superstructure, which was both high and wide.
It was formed by a continuation in height, of the glacis (main hull upper front plate) and the superstructure sides; and, as a structure, was exceptionally strong.
I would not expect it to collapse even if the AFV was blown over onto its back.
If it was so badly damaged in a bombardment that it had collapsed, I would expect to see evidence of that in the photo. There is none.

I also see no sign of the gun, which was in a fixed mount (rather than being in a turret, which - if the vehicle was subjected to heavy bombardment - could have been blown away);
although I guess it is not impossible for the fixed gun of a Jagdpanther to part company totally from the vehicle and finish up some distance away - but rather unlikely IMO if the superstructure itself remained intact.

From the photo, it is difficult to see the pannier lower edge.
If we could see that clearly, a level edge (rather than an edge sloping downwards from front to rear) would completely exclude the Jagdpanther without question.

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"England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

Last edited by panther3485; 16 Nov 17 at 07:49..
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