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Politics Central An archive of discussions of a political nature that took place here.

 
 
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  #46  
Old 30 Nov 12, 15:19
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Cyberknight said:
Quote:
So the "neocon" label is being resurrected? That epithet was much more commonly used as code for "non liberal, pro Israel Jews" and "Texas big oil" by conspiracy theorists.
Crackshot said:
Quote:
You think Romney is unelectable? Buchanan would be defeated if he ran on the GOP ticket. Too old-fashioned for nowadays.
Are the labels important or the variety of conservatism that they represent?

I think that neo-conservatism is some of what you say but also as currently formatted the practitioners will do or say just about anything to win. More traditional conservatism is a more intellectual and idealistic exercise.

In my Time magazine that just came in the mail today, Mike Murphy, a Republican consultant, says in an article entitled Can This Party be Saved?
Quote:
A debate will now rage inside the GOP between the purists, who will as always call for more purity, and the pragmatists, who will demand modernization. The media, always culturally alien to intra-Republican struggles, will badly mislabel this contest as one between “moderate” and “right-wing” Republicans. In fact, the epic battle we Republicans face now is a choice between two definitions of conservatism.
One offers steadfast opposition to emerging social trends like multiculturalism and secularization. The alternative is a more secular and modernizing conservatism that eschews most social issues to focus on creating a wide-open opportunity society that promises greater economic freedom and the reform of government institutions like schools that are vital to upward social mobility.
This article can be found at: http://swampland.time.com/2012/11/28...#ixzz2DjYEAu3u
If this is the case how would you label the two divisions—neo-cons vs. traditionalists, purists or pragmatists? Or are other labels more appropriate? Or are there more than two divisions? Could this lead to a party break-up?

I think that perhaps we could call them the Tea Party conservatives vs what used to be called Rockefeller or Liberal Republicans if we are looking for defining labels.

As I have stated before, I used to be a Liberal Republican of the Eisenhower/Nixon type and I would like to see that style come back.

Crackshot, if we define Romney as a neo-con then is that variety of Republican electable?

Would “old fashioned Buchanan style” be “new-fashioned” today? It is certainly more appealing to me. Would it be appealing to the young voters of today? I don’t know. It seems more equitable than Romneyism and I think that might appeal to younger people.
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  #47  
Old 30 Nov 12, 16:09
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Am I missing something... or is the republican party in such dissarray they do not even know what to call themselves???
  #48  
Old 30 Nov 12, 16:11
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Originally Posted by Jonathanrex1 View Post
Well trees and rocks don't have the vote.
They do if the Democrats register them....
  #49  
Old 30 Nov 12, 16:17
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Originally Posted by mconrad View Post
Wow, talk about the pressure to gerrymander! At least under the electoral system the state boundaries are fixed!
How so. Gerrymandering is controlled by the State legislatures. While there would be solid Blue and Red districts in every State , the majority would be somewhat competitive. You can't gerrymander the entire Nation.
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  #50  
Old 30 Nov 12, 16:23
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Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
Outside major, dense

As for the electorial college, if it was decided on a by precinct basis rather than the "winner take all" by state system in use Romney would have won even with a minority of the vote.
That's possible however what would be far more likely would be an increase in voter turnout. With most Districts in play there is a greater incentive to come out to vote and put your District in your guy's column. How many people don't vote because their State is a lock for the other guy.
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  #51  
Old 30 Nov 12, 17:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jannie View Post
If this is the case how would you label the two divisions—neo-cons vs. traditionalists, purists or pragmatists? Or are other labels more appropriate? Or are there more than two divisions? Could this lead to a party break-up?

I think that perhaps we could call them the Tea Party conservatives vs what used to be called Rockefeller or Liberal Republicans if we are looking for defining labels.
There are plenty of different Republicans IMO. Conservatives (Reagan), Tea Partiers, Neo-Cons, Liberals, Pragmatists, Libertarians, Paleo-Cons, who may agree and some issues and diverge on others.

But I think you're right when you suggest that the Tea Partiers and the Liberals/Libertarians are the more powerful factions in the party, and that they are definitely divided on how to run it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jannie View Post
Crackshot, if we define Romney as a neo-con then is that variety of Republican electable?
Is neo-con an appropiate moniker for Romney though? I always thought of him as a fairly centrist politician who made a desperate right-turn for the primaries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jannie View Post
Would “old fashioned Buchanan style” be “new-fashioned” today? It is certainly more appealing to me. Would it be appealing to the young voters of today? I don’t know. It seems more equitable than Romneyism and I think that might appeal to younger people.
Maybe. I've seen Buchanan quoted by leftists, in part because of his isolationist stances, criticism of Israel and unenthusiastic about free trade. But when the majority of younger voters are moving more to the left, IMO it will be difficult to elect a Buchanan-esque paleo-con. His support for the war on drugs, opposition to homosexuality and awkward history on racial issues, amongst others, will not endear him to young voters.
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  #52  
Old 30 Nov 12, 18:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
Outside major, dense urban areas the Democrats do poorly. That geographically describes over 90% of the US. While dense urban areas have about a third of the population in them, they are not represenative of most of the country.

As for the electorial college, if it was decided on a by precinct basis rather than the "winner take all" by state system in use Romney would have won even with a minority of the vote.
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  #53  
Old 30 Nov 12, 18:38
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Originally Posted by Crackshot View Post

Is neo-con an appropiate moniker for Romney though? I always thought of him as a fairly centrist politician who made a desperate right-turn for the primaries.
You may be right about Romney. I was just sitting here thinking of poor old George W. Bush and his Compassionate Conservatism. I think he had a good heart but he got led astray. I guess Romney was too.

There are some stories out there that the financiers of the party are so disillusioned by what happened this time that they are not going to give so much money the next time. That can only be a good thing. Maybe they will let the politicians strive for goodness and mercy. It is better to have a good heart than no heart at all or to let us have that perception anyway!

I do have some hope that perhaps, even in the face of Citizens United and all that it meant, the financiers were not able to turn the people the way they wanted. I actually think so much money got thrown around in the campaigns that it ceased to mean a lot.

Wouldn’t it be nice, if instead of turning the politicians rightward, that they would gag some of the most egregious of the hate-spewing pundits.
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  #54  
Old 04 Dec 12, 06:19
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Has the Republican Political Consultant class ignored the grass-roots to their detriment?

The theory suggests that there is more money to be made in making negative ads than getting out and working with and training a grass roots movement. (Remember the contempt that Republicans have for “Community Organizers”). Could this be another case of ignoring people for money? Are the Republicans going to have to get out and connect with real people with real concerns and try to understand the real issues rather than manufacture issues?
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Many in the consultant class aren’t going to do this because they don’t see any money in it, there is not getting around that. However, there are already several groups in the Liberty Movement that have already begun to undertake the task of educating and training activists in ways to build effective outreach to under-valued voters, such as young people and minorities.
This sort of outreach may be looked down upon by consultants, but activists have a way of connecting with potential voters that are essential to running successful campaigns. But continuing to overlook the grassroots does a disservice to the candidates for whom consultants work.
http://www.unitedliberty.org/article...o-gops-success
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  #55  
Old 04 Dec 12, 07:46
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