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Politics Central An archive of discussions of a political nature that took place here.

 
 
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  #151  
Old 18 Jun 12, 08:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash View Post
Plenty of people are upset that they work for a liberal arts major.

Most CEO's come from the sales organization....that really burns a pencil pusher who has put years into brown nosing and is still rockin' the pencil.
What it takes to be a used car salesman is the same thing that it takes to become a CEO.

You can't learn it, it takes natural born skill.

Of course there is a lot of math involved in sales and forcasting. But it usually comes down to making gut calls that either make or break you.

But you have to admit there are a lot of people graduating with a liberal arts degree with out the drive or persoanl skills to become a CEO.
  #152  
Old 18 Jun 12, 10:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Mann III View Post
So, I'm getting my ass kicked by school and it's only going to get harder. Which brings me to my point - a lot people around here with no concept of how hard it is to get that degree lay around here and put it down like it's clown college.
Yeah, I bust your balls plenty -- but I also earned all of my degrees going to school at night, after work, with a cranky wife, and towards the end, a couple of ICU kids around my neck. I think that I have more than a passing familiarity with how difficult it can be going back to college, especially when the need for a degree has already made itself known.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Mann III View Post
And that's not to mention the derogatory way people around here talk about the professionals in that industry as if they were less ethical than a used-car salesman and less intellectual than coffee-slinging hipster.
This one I have to plead guilty as charged -- but that's only due to my experience in the media industry. I loved it. I made good money. The hours could be crazy, but the work wasn't too hard, and the free food and the girls more than made up for the inconveniences. Yet despite all of those advantages, however, what I found were a whole bunch of self-centered and miserable bastards. That's not to say that there weren't pleasant and genuinely professional people to be found in film/television/news, but what really surprised me was that so many -- regardless of their specific role -- were absolutely miserable. The complaining was endless. "Talent" was indifferent to punctuality, or to any other professional standards, including print reporters who panned products 'cause they didn't get free beer at the product launch, or the AP on-air reporter who kicked a cameraman 'cause he fell down while chasing after this bimbo who ran straight across a red light on Eighth Avenue. Maybe that's just a New York thing, but since so many of these people came from elsewhere, and often only worked in New York for brief periods of time, I've got to believe that it's organic to the profession, a cross of entitlement and arrogance that was sometimes sickening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Mann III View Post
Makes me wonder if I've outgrown ACG...
That's between you and your maker, but as far as I'm concerned, I've got no complaints about your participation on this here forum.
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  #153  
Old 18 Jun 12, 11:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slick_miester View Post

Yeah, I bust your balls plenty -- but I also earned all of my degrees going to school at night, after work, with a cranky wife, and towards the end, a couple of ICU kids around my neck. I think that I have more than a passing familiarity with how difficult it can be going back to college, especially when the need for a degree has already made itself known.
Work at night? Check.

School day and night? Check.

Wife and kids? Check.

Cranky wife? Double-check.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slick_miester View Post

This one I have to plead guilty as charged -- but that's only due to my experience in the media industry. I loved it. I made good money. The hours could be crazy, but the work wasn't too hard, and the free food and the girls more than made up for the inconveniences.
I'm going to school to be a combat correspondent, not a TV debutante. Just for the record.

The money sucks, the hours sucks, the work is really hard, the food ain't free and people from both sides take shots at you.
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  #154  
Old 18 Jun 12, 12:15
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Originally Posted by 101combatvet View Post
Cause maybe someone else that didn't screw up has to earn it the hard way. You think rewarding the f'up is the right thing.... okay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101combatvet View Post
F**k ups meaning the government is rewarding free education to single parents.
Maybe if you had worn protection like she begged you to, she wouldn't be a single parent now.
  #155  
Old 18 Jun 12, 12:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Mann III View Post
I'm going to school to be a combat correspondent, not a TV debutante. Just for the record.

The money sucks, the hours sucks, the work is really hard, the food ain't free and people from both sides take shots at you.
Yet, do you not think that most people going for journalism are sold on the idea of being on TV?

The way it tends to work in a field like that, is:
1% of people get to the top.
15% of people wind up doing the dirty work (aka War Corr)
34% of the people wind up doing office work in the industry (File papers etc...)

The other 50% wind up working at Starbucks, or Walmart.

That is the problem with a degree like that, there is a glut of people trying to get into the field, and the number of jobs for number of graduates is rather small.

Look at it this way, we have thousands of people tryng to make it into professional sports. Some will make it big, some will get in enough to make a living. Should the rest not have a backup plan? Also College Sports stars get 4 year rides, so unlike journalism majors, they graduate with no debt.

So why should the government finance people to go to school for whatever they want?
  #156  
Old 18 Jun 12, 13:49
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Originally Posted by johns624 View Post
Maybe if you had worn protection like she begged you to, she wouldn't be a single parent now.
Not me.... they are usually fat and ugly.
  #157  
Old 18 Jun 12, 14:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niikeb View Post

Yet, do you not think that most people going for journalism are sold on the idea of being on TV?
I know better, after sitting through a year of Pre-Journalism courses in which the prospective students had to discuss their goals for their career paths.

Quote:
Originally Posted by niikeb View Post


The way it tends to work in a field like that, is:
1% of people get to the top.
15% of people wind up doing the dirty work (aka War Corr)
34% of the people wind up doing office work in the industry (File papers etc...)

The other 50% wind up working at Starbucks, or Walmart.
How does that differ from any other field? And which field do you mean, Journalism, or being an overseas correspondent specifically? Or do you just mean the media in general?

My degree is Journalism (News/Editing). I am the dirty work. I was a managing editor and a copy editor for three years at my last newspaper. I was all of the the 50% you mention above.

However, you're right in that at least 50% of my fellow employees now work lame jobs.

Oh, and what is your source for those statistics as the pertain to journalism? Did you attend the course on Media Professions that I was required to take, in which statistics such as the above were discussed in their current ratios and trends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by niikeb View Post

That is the problem with a degree like that, there is a glut of people trying to get into the field, and the number of jobs for number of graduates is rather small.
Isn't that the same with every degree?

And my field is experiencing a drastic revision, one that my college has been hailed internationally for predicting and getting out in front of in terms of training and education.

On top of that, my field of choice and my skills are both on the rare side of the journalism breakdown. I am uniquely suited to office work and willing to go outside and die. Rare breed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by niikeb View Post

Look at it this way, we have thousands of people tryng to make it into professional sports. Some will make it big, some will get in enough to make a living. Should the rest not have a backup plan? Also College Sports stars get 4 year rides, so unlike journalism majors, they graduate with no debt.
You're comparing a Journalism degree to playing college sports? I'm not sure whether I should laugh with pride or feel insulted. My team won the PAC-12 this year, and stomps guts out pretty much every year.

You may have heard of the UO Ducks.

Are you questioning my back-up plan? I assure you I have been covering my bases since before I went back to school, as an adult, with considerable life experience. My degree gives me an inroad to dozens of fields and hundreds of professions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by niikeb View Post

So why should the government finance people to go to school for whatever they want?
They shouldn't. Let them spend their money on the hopeless quagmires and boondoggles while the people watch their dreams going swishing down the toilet.

Not that I haven't encountered a few people with what I would consider hopeless degrees, but it's a classic case of the ignorant arrogance of the internet age to think that journalists are crucial to the health of society.
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  #158  
Old 18 Jun 12, 14:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Mann III View Post
Work at night? Check.

School day and night? Check.

Wife and kids? Check.

Cranky wife? Double-check.
I'm getting this strange feeling of dťjŗ vu. Have we met?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Mann III View Post
I'm going to school to be a combat correspondent, not a TV debutante. Just for the record.

The money sucks, the hours sucks, the work is really hard, the food ain't free and people from both sides take shots at you.
Without even trying -- without even wanting to -- you can totally screw over a serviceman: just ask the subject of Generation Kill.

Suffice to say, my feelings on that subject are ambivalent. There are stories that should be known -- but nobody wants to hear them. The stories of the American fighting men should be more widely known -- but since so few really want to know them, like as not what gets published is slanted to smear them, or it gets twisted into something that it was never meant to be. I've always had the feeling from my countrymen that not only is ignorance bliss, but it's actually far preferable to knowing. Yeah, the hours and the money are crap, but the worst of it is that your work as a combat correspondent won't make a difference -- at least not the difference you're trying to make.

Forgive me for being such cold water, but that's what my experience has led me to believe. In order to survive, American servicemen have to be a fraternity among themselves. We're of this country, but we're not really a part of it, and I don't ever see that changing.
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  #159  
Old 18 Jun 12, 14:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slick_miester View Post

Without even trying -- without even wanting to -- you can totally screw over a serviceman: just ask the subject of Generation Kill.
I've done my homework. I'm better prepared than most, and my heart is in the right place, unlike some. I'm not worried.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slick_miester View Post

I've always had the feeling from my countrymen that not only is ignorance bliss, but it's actually far preferable to knowing. Yeah, the hours and the money are crap, but the worst of it is that your work as a combat correspondent won't make a difference -- at least not the difference you're trying to make.
Tell that to Ernie Pyle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slick_miester View Post

Forgive me for being such cold water, but that's what my experience has led me to believe. In order to survive, American servicemen have to be a fraternity among themselves. We're of this country, but we're not really a part of it, and I don't ever see that changing.
Most of the truly successful combat correspondents are veterans to some extent. It's my one weakness, but my experience with military history and my stock of veteran friends has given me insight that most would struggle to find.

But hey, I also plan to take another run at the Army. I'm creeping towards the maximum age (I know it changes too) and enough time has passed to expunge my record. They'll probably laugh me out of the office, but I'm prepared for that too.
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  #160  
Old 18 Jun 12, 14:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Mann III View Post
I've done my homework. I'm better prepared than most, and my heart is in the right place, unlike some. I'm not worried.
I was referring to the writer's quoting of the lieutenant's "joy for killing," and how a couple of years later that offhand quip kept him out of grad school. Of this I sh*t you not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Mann III View Post
Tell that to Ernie Pyle.
We're history geeks: besides us, who reads Ernie Pyle any more?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Mann III View Post
Most of the truly successful combat correspondents are veterans to some extent. It's my one weakness, but my experience with military history and my stock of veteran friends has given me insight that most would struggle to find.
Maybe. I've just gotten to the point where I don't give a flying what my countrymen think anymore. More often than not, I prefer if they don't: they proven not to do it very well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Mann III View Post
But hey, I also plan to take another run at the Army. I'm creeping towards the maximum age (I know it changes too) and enough time has passed to expunge my record. They'll probably laugh me out of the office, but I'm prepared for that too.
Ahh, I do know you: you're a fellow masochist. Don't worry: you'll outgrow that, too.
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  #161  
Old 18 Jun 12, 14:52
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Originally Posted by Paul Mann III View Post
I know better, after sitting through a year of Pre-Journalism courses in which the prospective students had to discuss their goals for their career paths.

How does that differ from any other field? And which field do you mean, Journalism, or being an overseas correspondent specifically? Or do you just mean the media in general?
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_1...loyment-rates/
Anyone on the list.
Five of the college majors with the worst job prospects on this list are related to psychology. Ironically, psychology is the fifth most popular college degree.
When you consider that many of these people will be working outside of their field, the rate of people who got fleeced on thier sheepskin looks even more drastic.
Quote:

My degree is Journalism (News/Editing). I am the dirty work. I was a managing editor and a copy editor for three years at my last newspaper. I was all of the the 50% you mention above.

However, you're right in that at least 50% of my fellow employees now work lame jobs.

Oh, and what is your source for those statistics as the pertain to journalism? Did you attend the course on Media Professions that I was required to take, in which statistics such as the above were discussed in their current ratios and trends?
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_1...loyment-rates/
There are a lot of studies I could cite, but you know that it is as true as I do. Those majors have a glut of graduates.
Quote:
Isn't that the same with every degree?
Nope, not even close for many degrees.
Quote:

And my field is experiencing a drastic revision, one that my college has been hailed internationally for predicting and getting out in front of in terms of training and education.

On top of that, my field of choice and my skills are both on the rare side of the journalism breakdown. I am uniquely suited to office work and willing to go outside and die. Rare breed.
See I look at this and I see ME ME ME ME ME. The point is that people will be successful in any field, just because you have good employment options because you have in field experience and a good motivational drive is pointless when discussing how many of those less qualified people should be taking Journalism. No one here is talking about you, we are talking about colleges in the US.
Quote:
You're comparing a Journalism degree to playing college sports? I'm not sure whether I should laugh with pride or feel insulted. My team won the PAC-12 this year, and stomps guts out pretty much every year.

You may have heard of the UO Ducks.

Are you questioning my back-up plan? I assure you I have been covering my bases since before I went back to school, as an adult, with considerable life experience. My degree gives me an inroad to dozens of fields and hundreds of professions.
Again, for some strange reason you wish to talk about yourself. The point remains, do YOU think that there is a significant portion of people getting journalism degrees that are wasting their money, and would be better served by either a 2 year degree in a higher needed field or entering the work force after HS.
Every degree pays off for someone. But not for 20% of Clinical Psychologists...
Quote:
They shouldn't. Let them spend their money on the hopeless quagmires and boondoggles while the people watch their dreams going swishing down the toilet.

Not that I haven't encountered a few people with what I would consider hopeless degrees, but it's a classic case of the ignorant arrogance of the internet age to think that journalists are crucial to the health of society.
If the government doesnt back college loans say good bye to your sports team...

But we agree that the government backing loans for dead majors is a pretty bad bet.

Again we are looking at the college industry in the US as a whole, not attacking your degree choice.
  #162  
Old 18 Jun 12, 16:20
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Originally Posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
A college degree today is like a high school degree was 30 years ago. Most decent jobs require one. Those who get by without them have earned my respect.

Like Admiral.

Yeah you have bought into that nonsense DoD and you are selling Donuts with a degree from a well known University.

Are we sending to many students to college, without a doubt. However with the social stratification of American society, a degree is required to be considered middle class. Sadly too many of these degree holders do not have a middle class income, but hey at least they are not of those nasty working class people. For at least 30 years we have been telling our kids in school they MUST go to College and get a degree, doesn't matter what that degree is, any degree will do, and they will automatically be middle class and one of the nice people. Their other prospect is to be one of those ignorant, scummy working class people, Egads the horror!

That Slick is why that trucking company can not fill those $45K driving jobs. I mean really a truck driver? Seriously? those people are blue collar (shudder), and working class (cringe). Far better to have a degree in Algonquin Art Appreciation and sell coffee at Starbucks. For they can tell themselves that they are middle class, although after their debt is factored into the equation I would say they are financially equal to the working poor.

Here are some more signs an symptoms of the problem from an insert in Sunday's paper. Apparently the State of Georgia has started up a private-public partnership to attract young workers into skilled trades in an attempt to fill the 16,500 vacancies anticipated next year. In Georgia 33% of skilled tradesmen are over the age of 55! For every four workers that retire from the trades there is only one young worker entering them. There are plenty more interesting statistics and such at their web site at http://gobuildgeorgia.com/

We as a society are going to have to shift our perceptions of work and careers. Just because some one works with their hands or gets dirty it does not mean they are not a success, do not make good money, or are less educated or intelligent.
  #163  
Old 19 Jun 12, 00:01
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Originally Posted by Paul Mann III View Post
Most of the truly successful combat correspondents are veterans to some extent. It's my one weakness, but my experience with military history and my stock of veteran friends has given me insight that most would struggle to find.

But hey, I also plan to take another run at the Army. I'm creeping towards the maximum age (I know it changes too) and enough time has passed to expunge my record. They'll probably laugh me out of the office, but I'm prepared for that too.
Whats the Maximum Age up there? I had a 40+ on my Basic, Adding to the fact our Master Corporals and our Sergeant were under 30 meant he could have been the father to any one of the instructors.

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You may have heard of the UO Ducks.

Are you questioning my back-up plan? I assure you I have been covering my bases since before I went back to school, as an adult, with considerable life experience. My degree gives me an inroad to dozens of fields and hundreds of professions.
On my High-School Trip to San Fransisco in Fall 2010 We went to the University of California and got to watch them get beat by the Ducks.

I'm hoping i have an adequate back-up plan. I'm planning to take a Diploma of Business Management-Accounting at the local College (4k a semester) and upgrade it to a Bachelors at a University. The college has a joint program to one of my choice universities, so even if i only do 3 years I will still have my Diploma to fall on.

Also outside of the schooling i am in the Canadian Reserves and I am going for my trades course this summer (Start of July) and be a fully certified RMS (Resource Management Support) Clerk. this will give me #1 something I can fall back on as the course I will be on will be a mix of Reserves and Regulars -> I can turn Reg force with little-no additional training. and #2 After learning to push papers for the Military i think a civie course in the same field will be a bit tamer
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  #164  
Old 19 Jun 12, 04:15
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Whats the Maximum Age up there? I had a 40+ on my Basic, Adding to the fact our Master Corporals and our Sergeant were under 30 meant he could have been the father to any one of the instructors.
I haven't looked for a while. Last I checked I want to say it was like 38.

Maybe one of the recruiters we have on here could chime-in on that.

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On my High-School Trip to San Fransisco in Fall 2010 We went to the University of California and got to watch them get beat by the Ducks.
Yeah, our football team is gnarly. So are all our other sports. I'm on the Judo team.
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  #165  
Old 19 Jun 12, 14:08
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Originally Posted by niikeb View Post

Five of the college majors with the worst job prospects on this list are related to psychology. Ironically, psychology is the fifth most popular college degree.
I don't know what that has to do with me or why it is ironic. I'm just dumb, I guess.

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When you consider that many of these people will be working outside of their field, the rate of people who got fleeced on thier sheepskin looks even more drastic.
Good thing I chose such a reputable school. I guess more people should do that, eh?

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There are a lot of studies I could cite...
But instead you cite an obscure blogger? That's weird.

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Originally Posted by niikeb View Post

The point remains, do YOU think that there is a significant portion of people getting journalism degrees that are wasting their money, and would be better served by either a 2 year degree in a higher needed field or entering the work force after HS.
That's not a point, it's a question.

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Originally Posted by niikeb View Post

Every degree pays off for someone. But not for 20% of Clinical Psychologists...
I still don't know what that has to do with me.

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If the government doesnt back college loans say good bye to your sports team...
Not likely. PAC-12 champions, remember? In fact, we just brought back a team due to the influx of funds. And yeah, that team (baseball) is destroying everything in its path.

And "my" team is the Judo team, we're funded by ourselves. Can you dig it?

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Originally Posted by niikeb View Post

Again we are looking at the college industry in the US as a whole, not attacking your degree choice.
And in response to attacks against student financial aid, BAs, the journalism field, non-traditional students, and I host of other issues I have presented my path as a contrast to the wildly insulting all-inclusive hateful nature of this thread (such as the comments about single parents being f**k-ups, fat and ugly).

It's too classy in here for me.
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