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  #16  
Old 15 Oct 17, 07:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
Some Brit cities (the ones with good councils) have got bollarded-off city centre streets to keep cars out, and there's a great sense of peace and quiet and fresh air in there..
Without transport, you can't shop, and,if you can't shop, you can't survive . You can't feed a hungry child with fresh air : you need food and this food must be transported, by car .

Where I am living, the city administration has banned the car from the center, results: shops are closing and people are living : the center is becoming a ghost town .
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  #17  
Old 15 Oct 17, 08:23
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Cities don't really need electrical cars, but that's where they are being marketed towards(suburban middles class). In every big city I've lived everything has always been either within walking distance or easily reached with metro/bus. Occasionally taxi has been a cheap way of getting around when necessary. You don't need a car, electrical or otherwise.

None of these ever work in the countryside. There is no metro, buses go once or two a day, the nearest bus or train station is so far you might have a car anyways, and taxi is only for drunken extravaganza. You need a car unless you want to live in isolation, and electrical cars are not really an option due to their restrictions.

If electrical cars become cheaper, their use becomes cheaper than using gasoline, they can last longer distances between charges, and a system of charging available almost everywhere becomes reality then the change will happen.

Imagine for example that someone comes up with a way to tap directly into the power lines, which run already along every road, and you suddenly have access everywhere(rarely have I seen a stretch of road without electrical poles running alongside). Add in automated driving and we'll see a lot of unemployed truck drivers.
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  #18  
Old 15 Oct 17, 09:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karri View Post
Cities don't really need electrical cars, but that's where they are being marketed towards(suburban middles class). In every big city I've lived everything has always been either within walking distance or easily reached with metro/bus. Occasionally taxi has been a cheap way of getting around when necessary. You don't need a car, electrical or otherwise.

None of these ever work in the countryside. There is no metro, buses go once or two a day, the nearest bus or train station is so far you might have a car anyways, and taxi is only for drunken extravaganza. You need a car unless you want to live in isolation, and electrical cars are not really an option due to their restrictions.

If electrical cars become cheaper, their use becomes cheaper than using gasoline, they can last longer distances between charges, and a system of charging available almost everywhere becomes reality then the change will happen.

Imagine for example that someone comes up with a way to tap directly into the power lines, which run already along every road, and you suddenly have access everywhere(rarely have I seen a stretch of road without electrical poles running alongside). Add in automated driving and we'll see a lot of unemployed truck drivers.
Cities certainly need electric vans, cabs, buses and trucks
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  #19  
Old 15 Oct 17, 09:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karri View Post
Cities don't really need electrical cars, but that's where they are being marketed towards(suburban middles class). In every big city I've lived everything has always been either within walking distance or easily reached with metro/bus. Occasionally taxi has been a cheap way of getting around when necessary. You don't need a car, electrical or otherwise.

None of these ever work in the countryside. There is no metro, buses go once or two a day, the nearest bus or train station is so far you might have a car anyways, and taxi is only for drunken extravaganza. You need a car unless you want to live in isolation, and electrical cars are not really an option due to their restrictions.

If electrical cars become cheaper, their use becomes cheaper than using gasoline, they can last longer distances between charges, and a system of charging available almost everywhere becomes reality then the change will happen.

Imagine for example that someone comes up with a way to tap directly into the power lines, which run already along every road, and you suddenly have access everywhere(rarely have I seen a stretch of road without electrical poles running alongside). Add in automated driving and we'll see a lot of unemployed truck drivers.
Won't work in Germany, most all power lines are underground.
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  #20  
Old 15 Oct 17, 09:34
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Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
Cities certainly need electric vans, cabs, buses and trucks
Yes, but not for personal use. Currently in cities you have the use of the electric grid and equipment that can use it, but in "countryside" or outside city centers you do not. The long haul trucks are not gonna be converted into electricity until it is viable, cheaper and more useful to use them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
Won't work in Germany, most all power lines are underground.
Dig em up- But the point is that there's the problems that need solutions, and those solutions are quite far away. If they can be solved then it's likely the conversion will happen. Right now though we are living the era of Elon Musk's empty promises.
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Old 15 Oct 17, 09:36
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Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
Won't work in Germany, most all power lines are underground.
If one developed an induction system that might even be an advantage
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Old 15 Oct 17, 09:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karri View Post
Yes, but not for personal use. Currently in cities you have the use of the electric grid and equipment that can use it, but in "countryside" or outside city centers you do not. The long haul trucks are not gonna be converted into electricity until it is viable, cheaper and more useful to use them.

Or until penalties for using hydro carbons become so much that they are forced to change and by then the truck companies will be pressing for improved infrastructure, better batteries etc

I can see as system where when I leave home and drive through the country lanes I'm drawing power from the battery, when I hit a main road or enter a town the car is drawing power from buried induction coils and my account is being charged and when I pull off and park in the hypermarket car park my battery is being charged whilst I shop.
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  #23  
Old 15 Oct 17, 10:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
Or until penalties for using hydro carbons become so much that they are forced to change and by then the truck companies will be pressing for improved infrastructure, better batteries etc

I can see as system where when I leave home and drive through the country lanes I'm drawing power from the battery, when I hit a main road or enter a town the car is drawing power from buried induction coils and my account is being charged and when I pull off and park in the hypermarket car park my battery is being charged whilst I shop.
Unfortunately right now the only penalties seem to be government laid...they oughta maybe concentrate on infrastructure instead.
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Old 15 Oct 17, 12:15
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Quote:
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It'd never work in the US. Even the most population dense cities in the US barely reach European levels and the US in general is so low in population density, not to mention travel distances, that battery cars and public transit will never work within the foreseeable future.

Besides, "climate change" is looking more and more like a function of something other than CO2...
How about New York? They could make restrict cars in most of Manhattan.
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Old 15 Oct 17, 12:17
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Quote:
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Unfortunately right now the only penalties seem to be government laid...they oughta maybe concentrate on infrastructure instead.
Carrot and stick
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Old 16 Oct 17, 00:45
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Quote:
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How about New York? They could make restrict cars in most of Manhattan.
The problem there is one of trying to do this in a very small area of a very large city where most people own a vehicle and expect to be able to use it. I could see San Francisco trying it, and probably getting the snot sued out of them by one group or another over it.

You have understand, Manhattan is one borough of New York City and the entire city is absolutely huge compared to say, London. NYC covers 8936 sq km, while London covers just 1572. That makes NYC over five times larger in land area.

Manhattan's streets also tend to be much wider and most are laid out on a regular grid.



This makes automobile use reasonably practical.

London's streets on the other hand tend to be narrower, and an absolute maze to navigate.
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Old 16 Oct 17, 05:04
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Quote:
...you can do asinine things like this:

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Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
It'd never work in the US...
Lot's of things don't work in the US, doesn't mean they're asinine.
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Old 16 Oct 17, 06:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
You have understand, Manhattan is one borough of New York City and the entire city is absolutely huge compared to say, London. NYC covers 8936 sq km, while London covers just 1572. That makes NYC over five times larger in land area.
London
Area
Greater London 1,572 km2 (607 sq mi)
Urban 1,737.9 km2 (671.0 sq mi)
Metro 8,382 km2 (3,236 sq mi)

New York
Area[1]
Total 468.484 sq mi (1,213.37 km2)
Land 302.643 sq mi (783.84 km2)
Water 165.841 sq mi (429.53 km2)
Metro 13,318 sq mi (34,490 km2
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Old 16 Oct 17, 15:10
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All this hype around electric cars sounds very nice and Utopian but nobody seems to answer the question.

1.How much does it cost you, the driver, to fill your electric bank?, after all electric cars need electric to make them go.
2.How long are your lithium batteries going to last until you have to replace them at terrific cost.?
3. What happens when/if the battery catches fire? and very dangerous particles and fumes are spread around.

We had big trouble with lithium batteries in the aviation field when they first came out...are things any better now or is Tesler keeping silent on that.

Electric cars may be very nice for the city and daily driving but for long distance you better have a string of re-charging stations or a very long extension cable...
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Old 16 Oct 17, 15:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bow View Post
All this hype around electric cars sounds very nice and Utopian but nobody seems to answer the question.

1.How much does it cost you, the driver, to fill your electric bank?, after all electric cars need electric to make them go.
2.How long are your lithium batteries going to last until you have to replace them at terrific cost.?
3. What happens when/if the battery catches fire? and very dangerous particles and fumes are spread around.

We had big trouble with lithium batteries in the aviation field when they first came out...are things any better now or is Tesler keeping silent on that.

Electric cars may be very nice for the city and daily driving but for long distance you better have a string of re-charging stations or a very long extension cable...
I think that you are some way behind the curve. For a start there are various forms of Lithium battery and later varieties that do not use lithium (for exampled sodium ion) most of which do not catch fire, are cheaper and last longer - unfortunately some smart phones are based on old technology batteries but to extrapolate smart phone batteries to cars is not smart.

Read my earlier post - on major long distance routes on major highways induction loops will probably provide the power either by charging the battery or directly to the motor. Sure you'll get charged but petrol isn't free either. When cars first arrived one had to buy the petrol from the local chemist and then from blacksmiths but networks of garages soon developed - the same will happen with charging stations/battery replacement stations. After all we are well into the 21st century now.
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