HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Europe

Notices and Announcements

Europe Issues of modern Europe.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 02 Oct 17, 06:02
Gooner's Avatar
Gooner Gooner is offline
General of the Forums
England
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London
Posts: 14,082
Gooner is a jewel in the rough [500]
Gooner is a jewel in the rough [500] Gooner is a jewel in the rough [500] Gooner is a jewel in the rough [500] Gooner is a jewel in the rough [500] Gooner is a jewel in the rough [500] Gooner is a jewel in the rough [500] Gooner is a jewel in the rough [500]
Any reason Carles Puigdemont and his gang haven't been arrested?
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 02 Oct 17, 06:18
Karri's Avatar
Karri Karri is offline
General of the Forums
Finland
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive Summer Campaign 
100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
Best Pin-Up Of World War II CWiE 1939-45 Campaign 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Monterrey
Posts: 9,343
Karri has earned the respect of all [900] Karri has earned the respect of all [900]
Karri has earned the respect of all [900] Karri has earned the respect of all [900] Karri has earned the respect of all [900] Karri has earned the respect of all [900] Karri has earned the respect of all [900] Karri has earned the respect of all [900]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skoblin View Post
The silence on the part of the EU is deafening. If the police had used the same methods against illegal migrants there would have been no end to EU criticism.
Actually, the Spanish police isn't exactly the nicest bunch of people around. Am quite sure the migrant get this treatment if they decide to disobey. Though to my understanding these were some sort of paramilitary police forces...with the Catalonian police refusing to use force.
__________________
Food tastes better than ethics
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 02 Oct 17, 06:41
Skoblin's Avatar
Skoblin Skoblin is offline
ACG Forums - Field Marshal
Pirate
Distinguished Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 SPQR Campaign Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The city on the river
Posts: 17,623
Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karri View Post
Though to my understanding these were some sort of paramilitary police forces...with the Catalonian police refusing to use force.
From what I have heard they were the Guardia Civil, which are technically part of the military - which raises an interesting question: were the actions of the Spanish government in violation of Article 7 of the European Union treaty which forbids using military force against civilians. On the other hand, Spanish government supporters are claiming Article 7 is not applicable as the Guardia Civil were operating according to a judge's warrant and thus acting in a police capacity.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 02 Oct 17, 07:20
ljadw's Avatar
ljadw ljadw is offline
General of the Forums
Belgium
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: zottegem
Posts: 14,642
ljadw gives and gets respect [800] ljadw gives and gets respect [800]
ljadw gives and gets respect [800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JFKvsNixon View Post
I wasn't suggesting that that the worlds population would be motivated to make some intervention, so I don't know where you're going with that one

It's looking like that the Spanish/Catalans are too entrenched in their positions to come to any meaningful agreement on how to proceed by themselves. So surely some form of mediation from an outside party is better way forward then an escalation into conflict?
Mediation/intervention from outside will only worse the situation . Only the Spanish/Catalans can solve the problem . If the problem in Northern Ireland is solved, it is not because of mediation from outside .
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 02 Oct 17, 08:26
Daemon of Decay's Avatar
Daemon of Decay Daemon of Decay is offline
ACG Forums - General Staff
Sinc
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
March Offensive 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls 
 
Real Name: @ThatDerekFellow
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Drying out the home in Texas
Posts: 25,261
Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Catalan Cabinet meets to plan independence declaration

Quote:
BARCELONA, Spain (AP) — Catalonia’s government was holding a closed-door Cabinet meeting Monday to discuss the next steps in its plan to declare independence from Spain following a disputed referendum marred by violence. Regional officials say the poll, which Spain insists was illegal and invalid, shows that the majority who voted favor secession.

The referendum debacle brought Spain and Catalonia closer to a potentially disastrous showdown as each side said Sunday’s events proved them right and neither looked prepared to cede ground.

Catalan president Carles Puigdemont will chair the Cabinet meeting, which is expected to consider asking the regional parliament to vote on an historic independence declaration later in the week.

Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy, meanwhile, will meet with ruling Popular Party leaders before seeking a parliamentary session to discuss how to confront the country’s most serious crisis in decades.
https://apnews.com/991579f34aa34375a...ce-declaration
__________________
Do you like my car?
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 02 Oct 17, 08:31
Daemon of Decay's Avatar
Daemon of Decay Daemon of Decay is offline
ACG Forums - General Staff
Sinc
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
March Offensive 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls 
 
Real Name: @ThatDerekFellow
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Drying out the home in Texas
Posts: 25,261
Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skoblin View Post
From what I have heard they were the Guardia Civil, which are technically part of the military - which raises an interesting question: were the actions of the Spanish government in violation of Article 7 of the European Union treaty which forbids using military force against civilians. On the other hand, Spanish government supporters are claiming Article 7 is not applicable as the Guardia Civil were operating according to a judge's warrant and thus acting in a police capacity.
Both sides will certainly be shouting to the heavens about each and every transgression the other side indulges in - and the images from this response certainly won't be abandoned by the Independents anytime soon. No revolution will abandon its own Boston Massacre, legal or not.
__________________
Do you like my car?
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 02 Oct 17, 08:53
Snowygerry's Avatar
Snowygerry Snowygerry is offline
General of the Forums
Belgium
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Gent
Posts: 11,425
Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
Another nail in the coffin of the nation state.

National governments appear to be increasingly irrelevant, resorting to desperate measures to maintain some resemblance of control.
__________________
High The Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.
Francis II, Holy Roman Emperor - The Napoleonic Wars Campaign.

Captain Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Co.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 02 Oct 17, 09:00
Skoblin's Avatar
Skoblin Skoblin is offline
ACG Forums - Field Marshal
Pirate
Distinguished Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 SPQR Campaign Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The city on the river
Posts: 17,623
Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowygerry View Post
Another nail in the coffin of the nation state.
National governments appear to be increasingly irrelevant, resorting to desperate measures to maintain some resemblance of control.
Actually, quite the opposite. The possibility of an independent Catalan state would be an affirmation of the ethno-nationalist state - as opposed to European integration which is opposed to such developments. This may help to explain the lack of any robust EU response to events.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 02 Oct 17, 09:04
Snowygerry's Avatar
Snowygerry Snowygerry is offline
General of the Forums
Belgium
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Gent
Posts: 11,425
Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
You may have a point there, nation states as such won't disappear - but I suspect a lot that are around now, won't be in a century or so.

And probably not the most obvious either.

The EU is an agreement among existing nation states after all, one dissolving into its separate parts will always pose a problem there.
__________________
High The Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.
Francis II, Holy Roman Emperor - The Napoleonic Wars Campaign.

Captain Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Co.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 02 Oct 17, 09:10
Daemon of Decay's Avatar
Daemon of Decay Daemon of Decay is offline
ACG Forums - General Staff
Sinc
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
March Offensive 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls 
 
Real Name: @ThatDerekFellow
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Drying out the home in Texas
Posts: 25,261
Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skoblin View Post
Actually, quite the opposite. The possibility of an independent Catalan state would be an affirmation of the ethno-nationalist state - as opposed to European integration which is opposed to such developments. This may help to explain the lack of any robust EU response to events.
Where once the idea of nation was broad and encompassing, the Balkanization of larger entities into smaller but more homogenous (politically and ethnically) is the growing trend. A somewhat ironic reflection of the original nationalism of the 18th century writ out in modern political language.
__________________
Do you like my car?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #71  
Old 02 Oct 17, 10:09
Imperial's Avatar
Imperial Imperial is offline
General of the Forums
Romania
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Robert
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 6,151
Imperial is simply cracking [600]
Imperial is simply cracking [600] Imperial is simply cracking [600] Imperial is simply cracking [600] Imperial is simply cracking [600] Imperial is simply cracking [600] Imperial is simply cracking [600] Imperial is simply cracking [600] Imperial is simply cracking [600] Imperial is simply cracking [600] Imperial is simply cracking [600] Imperial is simply cracking [600]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skoblin View Post
Actually, quite the opposite. The possibility of an independent Catalan state would be an affirmation of the ethno-nationalist state - as opposed to European integration which is opposed to such developments. This may help to explain the lack of any robust EU response to events.
If the EU was on Spain's side it would have made it clear before, condemning the planned referendum and thus putting its own weight behind Rajoy's calls for the regional Catalan leaders not to go ahead with it. But it didn't AFAIK.

Also, I've watched a few talkshows on local TV last night. Guess what. The pro-EU talking heads who condmend Orban for erecting the border fence strongly condemned the Spanish government for its "nationalistic outburst".

So I'm not so sure about this "Catalonian independence is anti-EU"/"EU is against Catalonian independence" view.
The Catalonians themselves are pro-EU.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 02 Oct 17, 10:18
ljadw's Avatar
ljadw ljadw is offline
General of the Forums
Belgium
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: zottegem
Posts: 14,642
ljadw gives and gets respect [800] ljadw gives and gets respect [800]
ljadw gives and gets respect [800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karri View Post
I live in Spain. Not that that will stop you from stuffing your mouth with socks.
Living in Spain does not make you a Spaniard .
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 02 Oct 17, 10:40
Daemon of Decay's Avatar
Daemon of Decay Daemon of Decay is offline
ACG Forums - General Staff
Sinc
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
March Offensive 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls 
 
Real Name: @ThatDerekFellow
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Drying out the home in Texas
Posts: 25,261
Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperial View Post
If the EU was on Spain's side it would have made it clear before, condemning the planned referendum and thus putting its own weight behind Rajoy's calls for the regional Catalan leaders not to go ahead with it. But it didn't AFAIK.

Also, I've watched a few talkshows on local TV last night. Guess what. The pro-EU talking heads who condmend Orban for erecting the border fence strongly condemned the Spanish government for its "nationalistic outburst".

So I'm not so sure about this "Catalonian independence is anti-EU"/"EU is against Catalonian independence" view.
The Catalonians themselves are pro-EU.
The Scottish example is another reflection of this, where separatists are themselves still strongly in favor of EU membership. The EU hasnt liked separatism in the past because nations like Spain didn't want their own groups getting up in arms, but that cats been out of the bag for a while.
__________________
Do you like my car?
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 02 Oct 17, 10:40
Daemon of Decay's Avatar
Daemon of Decay Daemon of Decay is offline
ACG Forums - General Staff
Sinc
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
March Offensive 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls 
 
Real Name: @ThatDerekFellow
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Drying out the home in Texas
Posts: 25,261
Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljadw View Post
Living in Spain does not make you a Spaniard .
Living on earth does not make one an earthling.
__________________
Do you like my car?
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 02 Oct 17, 10:45
Karri's Avatar
Karri Karri is offline
General of the Forums
Finland
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive Summer Campaign 
100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
Best Pin-Up Of World War II CWiE 1939-45 Campaign 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Monterrey
Posts: 9,343
Karri has earned the respect of all [900] Karri has earned the respect of all [900]
Karri has earned the respect of all [900] Karri has earned the respect of all [900] Karri has earned the respect of all [900] Karri has earned the respect of all [900] Karri has earned the respect of all [900] Karri has earned the respect of all [900]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljadw View Post
Living in Spain does not make you a Spaniard .
Is your memory so short you forget what you wrote five minutes ago, or is what you say so insignificant and tepid that you cannot bear to admit your words as yours:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljadw View Post
No one finds it surrealistic that people from outside Spain/Catalonia are "discussing" a Spanish-Catalan problem,without the presence in this thread of even ONE poster from Catalonia/ Spain ?
__________________
Food tastes better than ethics
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 18:07.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.