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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Weapons of War > Air Power

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Air Power A place to discuss the implements of War in the Air!

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  #46  
Old 04 Sep 09, 03:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_redstar_swl View Post
The F-35 has a cannon, Don't distort facts.
Sure....the Sherman tank did too,but the GAU 8 is like a chainsaw compared to a pocket knife. The Warthog is made to fight in close harmony with ground forces,to stick around,to hunt and kill. An F-16 can do much of what an F 35 can,basically zoom in,hit some assigned target and go. A handfull of Warthogs can decimate an armored division and get back to base even if they took a lot of hits. They can stay and fight for an hour and more,while the fast jets are in and out. They can operate at speed and altitude where they can SEE what they are doing.

If they can stick a Gau 8 and a few tons of ordnance and armor on an F 35,fine,but that just supplements the Warthogs,and at far higher cost. I don't know if they CAN armour up an F35 to survive 23 mm anti air rounds.

The A 10 ain't broke...don't fix it.

The USAF wanted to dump the A10 long ago...before it was so dominant in the Gulf War. Now, it's more relevant than ever. There ain't a lot of air superiority fighters for the F 22's to deal with...bud there's gonna be role for mud fighters.
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  #47  
Old 04 Sep 09, 10:25
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The F-35 could never replace the A-10.I agree,the A-10 should be put back in production.The A-10 should be upgraded as tech improves.Nothing does the CAS job better.Low and slow is the name of the game.You need loiter time.Actually,I think the A-1 line should be started up again as well.LONG LIVE THE WARTHOG!
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  #48  
Old 05 Sep 09, 13:26
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The A-10 is stealthy if you're a low priority ground target. Low flying, quiet, and sneaky.
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  #49  
Old 05 Sep 09, 20:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronrem View Post
Sure....the Sherman tank did too,but the GAU 8 is like a chainsaw compared to a pocket knife. The Warthog is made to fight in close harmony with ground forces,to stick around,to hunt and kill. An F-16 can do much of what an F 35 can,basically zoom in,hit some assigned target and go. A handfull of Warthogs can decimate an armored division and get back to base even if they took a lot of hits. They can stay and fight for an hour and more,while the fast jets are in and out. They can operate at speed and altitude where they can SEE what they are doing.

If they can stick a Gau 8 and a few tons of ordnance and armor on an F 35,fine,but that just supplements the Warthogs,and at far higher cost. I don't know if they CAN armour up an F35 to survive 23 mm anti air rounds.

The A 10 ain't broke...don't fix it.

The USAF wanted to dump the A10 long ago...before it was so dominant in the Gulf War. Now, it's more relevant than ever. There ain't a lot of air superiority fighters for the F 22's to deal with...bud there's gonna be role for mud fighters.
Excellent analysis!!

Personally I think the Pentagon should transfer the A-10 to the Army since it is designed for CAS.
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  #50  
Old 05 Sep 09, 20:50
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Originally Posted by copenhagen View Post
Why would you get rid of the A10 now when close air support in a rugged environment is currently the order of the day and it does it so well whilst that gun scares the living **** out of the average taliban soldier. Puts the ****s up me I can tell you. I say this with respect to the Americans here. You have a lot of money and your budget is huge and because this being so I sometimes wonder whether your military expenditure culture is to nearly always go with the Rolls Royce Top Gun option rather than saying this is what we've got , does it work, is it cost effective.
Couldn't agree with you more, much like the B-52, the A-10 should stay in the US inventory for a long, long time.
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  #51  
Old 06 Sep 09, 02:26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelpot View Post
Personally I think the Pentagon should transfer the A-10 to the Army since it is designed for CAS.
If the Air Force will transfer the part of their budget that maintains the A-10, its personnel and its maintenance, the Army will take them. The sticky point is always the Air Force wants to keep the money they spent on A-10's.

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  #52  
Old 06 Sep 09, 02:47
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Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
If the Air Force will transfer the part of their budget that maintains the A-10, its personnel and its maintenance, the Army will take them. The sticky point is always the Air Force wants to keep the money they spent on A-10's.

Pruitt
I'm sure you're 1,000 right but that's what I would do if I were the SecDef, anything that is designed for CAS and flies at a low altitude, low speed, should belong to Army Aviation.
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  #53  
Old 06 Sep 09, 04:42
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Originally Posted by AThousandYoung View Post
That's what they said about the F-4.
Since nobody's called you on this yet, They said the F-4 was a stealth fighter?

Not to mention the missiles of the 60s where incredibly unreliable and its radar is a joke compared to modern stuff.

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Originally Posted by ronrem View Post
I don't know if they CAN armour up an F35 to survive 23 mm anti air rounds.
Can they armor a A-10 to withstand being hit by modern SAMs? What about the 30mm guns on the 9K22 Tunguska?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronrem View Post
The A 10 ain't broke...don't fix it.
Nothing's broken on the A-10. It's just outdated, There's a limit to how many times you can keep upgrading something before the costs outweigh the gains.

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There ain't a lot of air superiority fighters for the F 22's to deal with...bud there's gonna be role for mud fighters.
And that role will be filled by UAVs.
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  #54  
Old 07 Sep 09, 04:31
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A UAV armed with a couple of Hellfire missiles doesn't really strike me as a capable replacement for the A-10.
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  #55  
Old 07 Sep 09, 04:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon_Llama View Post
A UAV armed with a couple of Hellfire missiles doesn't really strike me as a capable replacement for the A-10.
The ideal solution would be a UAV with a GAU8 and current air to ground missiles. With no pilot to worry about, there is less need for armour protection. Instead of the Air Force's mantra of "higher, further, faster", it could be replaced with "lighter, cheaper, agile". There should be no need to tranfer responsibility for CAS to the Army. It just needs the correct mindset to ensure that the troops on the ground receive the support they need.

Last edited by At ease; 07 Sep 09 at 05:05..
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  #56  
Old 07 Sep 09, 19:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon_Llama View Post
A UAV armed with a couple of Hellfire missiles doesn't really strike me as a capable replacement for the A-10.
A "couple"? The MQ-9 can carry up to 14 of them.

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Originally Posted by At ease View Post
The ideal solution would be a UAV with a GAU8 and current air to ground missiles.
The GAU-12 would be better suited, It's lighter, smaller and has a lower recoil than the Avenger, with the same muzzle velocity and a similarly sized shell.
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  #57  
Old 07 Sep 09, 21:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_redstar_swl View Post
A "couple"? The MQ-9 can carry up to 14 of them.



The GAU-12 would be better suited, It's lighter, smaller and has a lower recoil than the Avenger, with the same muzzle velocity and a similarly sized shell.
I stand corrected.
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  #58  
Old 07 Sep 09, 22:19
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Can't shoot everything and everyone with missiles. The A-10 was built around that gun.
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  #59  
Old 08 Sep 09, 01:26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_redstar_swl View Post
A "couple"? The MQ-9 can carry up to 14 of them.



The GAU-12 would be better suited, It's lighter, smaller and has a lower recoil than the Avenger, with the same muzzle velocity and a similarly sized shell.
I am in the dark here. GAU8=30mm. GAU12=25mm Wouldn't that make the 12 much less powerful than the 8?
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  #60  
Old 08 Sep 09, 01:35
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Originally Posted by At ease View Post
I am in the dark here. GAU8=30mm. GAU12=25mm Wouldn't that make the 12 much less powerful than the 8?
However, in practical terms, anything that could survive the 25 is probably something that would probably survive the 30 as well and you'll need to use a missile on it anyway. Better to save the payload space for more fuel and more missiles.

Also, strafing tends to put you into the range of a number of nasty air defence systems that you could more safely hit with missiles anyway.
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