HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Warfare by Other Means

Notices and Announcements

Warfare by Other Means Economics, demographics, cultural, technological, and other factors that have affected the course of history.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 25 Dec 14, 04:27
Sgt. Rock's Avatar
Sgt. Rock Sgt. Rock is offline
General
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: William B. Williams
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Melonville
Posts: 4,443
Sgt. Rock has earned the respect of all [900] Sgt. Rock has earned the respect of all [900]
Sgt. Rock has earned the respect of all [900] Sgt. Rock has earned the respect of all [900] Sgt. Rock has earned the respect of all [900] Sgt. Rock has earned the respect of all [900] Sgt. Rock has earned the respect of all [900] Sgt. Rock has earned the respect of all [900] Sgt. Rock has earned the respect of all [900] Sgt. Rock has earned the respect of all [900] Sgt. Rock has earned the respect of all [900]
Tulip mania in Holland

I find the tulip prices in Holland back in the 1600's to be fascinating. To me it's interesting to see how high the prices of tulips became and the effect of price of tulips impacted the economy of Holland and the effect the crash of the tulip prices had on Holland. It wasn't warfare, but since this thread mentions econmics I thought I would mention this.

http://www.thebubblebubble.com/tulip-mania/
Reply With Quote
Facebook Connect and Magazine Promotions

World War II Magazine
$26.95

Armchair General Magazine
$26.95
Military History Magazine
$26.95
  #2  
Old 25 Dec 14, 09:38
GCoyote's Avatar
GCoyote GCoyote is offline
ACG Forums - canis administrationem
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Gary C
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Posts: 19,108
GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
This came up as a reference during a financial program on how the media and markets interact. The author's opinion was that a key ingredient in the creation of market bubbles was mass media, in this particular case, the recent invention of the printing press. In order for a bubble to form, enough people need to know about both the product and the stories of recent financial gain to pump capital into the market.
__________________
Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

Questions about our site? See the FAQ.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 25 Dec 14, 11:17
17thfabn's Avatar
17thfabn 17thfabn is online now
Major
United_States
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,198
17thfabn is on the path to success [1-99] 17thfabn is on the path to success [1-99] 17thfabn is on the path to success [1-99] 17thfabn is on the path to success [1-99] 17thfabn is on the path to success [1-99] 17thfabn is on the path to success [1-99] 17thfabn is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt. Rock View Post
I find the tulip prices in Holland back in the 1600's to be fascinating. To me it's interesting to see how high the prices of tulips became and the effect of price of tulips impacted the economy of Holland and the effect the crash of the tulip prices had on Holland. It wasn't warfare, but since this thread mentions econmics I thought I would mention this.
I love that story!

I think of it sometimes when I see current things that are over priced due to the lattest craze to latter crash in value. Once people think why the heck am I paying so much for a llama?

In the U.S. in the last 30 or so years I have seen wild speculation in Llamas. And ostrichs and emus and their eggs.




I new some one who had LLamas that were valued at up to $10,000. Their was a "LLama Market Crash". Suddenly These LLamas were worth next to nothing!
__________________
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Beatrice Evelyn Hall
Updated for the 21st century... except if you are criticizing islam, that scares the $hii+e out of me!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 25 Dec 14, 11:40
GCoyote's Avatar
GCoyote GCoyote is offline
ACG Forums - canis administrationem
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Gary C
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Posts: 19,108
GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
One often over-looked factor in the recent housing market crash, the plethora of house-flipping shows on TV that made it look easy. Much easier than in real life.
__________________
Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

Questions about our site? See the FAQ.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 26 Dec 14, 01:01
Daemon of Decay's Avatar
Daemon of Decay Daemon of Decay is offline
ACG Forums - General Staff
Sinc
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
March Offensive 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls 
 
Real Name: @ThatDerekFellow
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Drying out the home in Texas
Posts: 25,261
Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCoyote View Post
One often over-looked factor in the recent housing market crash, the plethora of house-flipping shows on TV that made it look easy. Much easier than in real life.
Indeed. The media shapes public perception - but only seems able to understand that fully half the time.
__________________
Do you like my car?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 27 Dec 14, 17:09
Escape2Victory's Avatar
Escape2Victory Escape2Victory is offline
Lieutenant General
UK
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 3,759
Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200]
A lesson that is still pertinent today is the psychology of markets. Often in a market there is no 'true' value, the value is ascribed by the market based on what people are willing to pay. In this example, people totally lost a grip on reality as the market valued tulips more than houses. This happened largely through greed. Investors watched the value go up and concluded it would continue to do so and did not want to miss out.

More recently the phenomenon can be seen in housing markets but even more so in the stock market because of its greater liquidity and volatility. Perhaps the likes of Twitter are today's tulips.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 27 Dec 14, 20:24
Rojik's Avatar
Rojik Rojik is offline
General of the Forums
Australia
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 
 
Real Name: Keyser Söze
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bay 13
Posts: 9,114
Rojik has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Rojik has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Rojik has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Rojik has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Rojik has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Rojik has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Rojik has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Rojik has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Rojik has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Rojik has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Rojik has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Rojik has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Rojik has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Rojik has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Rojik has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
I get the feeling these guys ancestors were around the time of the Tulip Bubble

Quote:
Jordan Belfort: Right. But if you can make the clients money at the same time, it's advantageous to everyone, correct?
Mark Hanna: No. Number one rule of Wall Street. Nobody, I don't care if you're Warren Buffet or if you're Jimmy Buffet, nobody knows if a stock is gonna go up, down, sideways or in ****ing circles, least of all stock brokers, right?
Jordan Belfort: Mm-hmm.
Mark Hanna: It's all a fugazi. Do you know what fugazi is?
Jordan Belfort: Fugazi, it's a fake...
Mark Hanna: Yeah, fugazi, fogazi. It's a wazi, it's a woozi. It's...fairy dust. It doesn't exist, it's never landed, it is no matter, it's not on the elemental charge. It's not ****ing real.
Quote:
Mark Hanna: We don't create ****, we don't build anything.
Jordan Belfort: No.
Mark Hanna: So if you got a client who brought stock at eight, and it now sits at sixteen, and he's all ****ing happy, he wants to cash it and liquidate and take his ****ing money and run home. You don't let him do that.
Jordan Belfort: Okay.
Mark Hanna: Cause that would make it real.
Jordan Belfort: Right.
Mark Hanna: No, what do you do? You get another brilliant idea, a special idea. Another situation, another stock to reinvest his earnings and then some. And he will, every single time.
Jordan Belfort: Mm-hmm.
Mark Hanna: Cause they're ****ing addicted. And then you just keep doing this, again, and again, and again. Meanwhile, he thinks he's getting **** rich, which he is, on paper. But you and me, the brokers?
Jordan Belfort: Right.
Mark Hanna: We're taking home cold hard cash via commission, mother****er.
Jordan Belfort: Right! That's incredible, sir. I'm...I can't tell you how excited I am.
Mark Hanna: You should be.
__________________
Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

That's right bitches. I'm blessed!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 28 Dec 14, 01:53
GCoyote's Avatar
GCoyote GCoyote is offline
ACG Forums - canis administrationem
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Gary C
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Posts: 19,108
GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escape2Victory View Post
A lesson that is still pertinent today is the psychology of markets. Often in a market there is no 'true' value, the value is ascribed by the market based on what people are willing to pay. ...
I get into this all of the time. Price isn't the same as value. A price is what we agree on at the time of exchange. Value is what it's worth to me, definitely not a fixed amount, and something anyone who's not me can only guess at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rojik View Post
I get the feeling these guys ancestors were around the time of the Tulip Bubble
If you need a broker to tell you what to buy and when to sell, you probably shouldn't be in stocks.
__________________
Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

Questions about our site? See the FAQ.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 28 Dec 14, 03:32
Escape2Victory's Avatar
Escape2Victory Escape2Victory is offline
Lieutenant General
UK
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 3,759
Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200] Escape2Victory is walking in the light [200]
In terms of alternative means of war, capital markets, stock markets and bond markets are an essential part of the capitalist system. If the flow of money can be interrupted it can hurt a country in much the same way military planners might hurt an enemy through hitting fuel supplies and infrastructure.

We are seeing this today in Russia and Iran, which are feeling the pain of being shut out of the big financial markets in the US and Europe. Capital flees the country and no one wants to lend you more. In the Cold War the Soviets stood outside the capitalist system but now they have to play by the rules of Globalisation or pay the price. It is maybe only China that can stand aloof now.

Conversely, when our own economies were in trouble in recent years, dominance of capital markets allowed both the US and UK to print vast amounts of new money to stave off deflation and depression and the world cheerfully bought our bonds because we could be trusted to honour them.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 13 Mar 16, 21:24
Carl Schwamberg's Avatar
Carl Schwamberg Carl Schwamberg is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Indiana
Posts: 10,425
Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800]
Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 17thfabn View Post
I love that story!

....

I new some one who had LLamas that were valued at up to $10,000. Their was a "LLama Market Crash". Suddenly These LLamas were worth next to nothing!
As in every crash one can benefit if you are properly positioned. There were a few legit wool or fibre farmers who found the Llama price crash great opportunity to increase their herds at a extremely low cost. If you go to the fibre fairs regularly you can spot those wool producers by their large and varied product displays. I cant help but guess the folks who bought Llamas at $10,000 or $5,000 were also taking out risky loans to buy overpriced & oversized McMansions marketed by the likes of CP Morgan or Beezer Homes.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #11  
Old 13 Mar 16, 21:29
Carl Schwamberg's Avatar
Carl Schwamberg Carl Schwamberg is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Indiana
Posts: 10,425
Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800]
Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escape2Victory View Post
.... In the Cold War the Soviets stood outside the capitalist system but now they have to play by the rules of Globalisation or pay the price. It is maybe only China that can stand aloof now.

....
Perhaps China can stand aloof. It will be interesting to see them moving on without the usual market penalties we know and hate. Then again perhaps the Gods with reveal some new and even more terrible deamon to chew on the entrails of Chinas economy.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 14 Mar 16, 15:38
Wooden Wonder's Avatar
Wooden Wonder Wooden Wonder is offline
Brigadier General
UK
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 2,326
Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100]
I tend you use as a rule of thumb that if the scheme/craze appears too good to be true, that it usually is.

As far as China goes they have long valued their 'edible' swallow birds' nests. I wonder if their current financial setbacks will propel financial speculation in that arena.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 14 Mar 16, 16:34
MarkV's Avatar
MarkV MarkV is offline
General of the Forums
UK
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Tenbury Wells
Posts: 12,548
MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700]
MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rojik View Post
I get the feeling these guys ancestors were around the time of the Tulip Bubble
New legislation proposed here - to make financial advisers in part financially responsible for the results - you make a profit on their advice they get a bit but you make a loss some of it comes out of their pocket. Bad advisers go out of business PDQ - a real market solution.
__________________
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 14 Mar 16, 16:37
wolfhnd's Avatar
wolfhnd wolfhnd is online now
Lieutenant General
United_States
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: KC
Posts: 3,645
wolfhnd is on a distinguished road [300] wolfhnd is on a distinguished road [300] wolfhnd is on a distinguished road [300] wolfhnd is on a distinguished road [300] wolfhnd is on a distinguished road [300] wolfhnd is on a distinguished road [300] wolfhnd is on a distinguished road [300] wolfhnd is on a distinguished road [300] wolfhnd is on a distinguished road [300] wolfhnd is on a distinguished road [300] wolfhnd is on a distinguished road [300] wolfhnd is on a distinguished road [300] wolfhnd is on a distinguished road [300] wolfhnd is on a distinguished road [300]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
New legislation proposed here - to make financial advisers in part financially responsible for the results - you make a profit on their advice they get a bit but you make a loss some of it comes out of their pocket.
Just what we need more protection from ones own stupidity. What is next electric shock collars that stop people from over eating?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 14 Mar 16, 16:39
MarkV's Avatar
MarkV MarkV is offline
General of the Forums
UK
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Tenbury Wells
Posts: 12,548
MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700]
MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfhnd View Post
Just what we need more protection from ones own stupidity. What is next electric shock collars that stop people from over eating?
The con man's excuse down the ages
__________________
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 22:59.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.