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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Military/History Related Hobbies > Alternate Timelines > Xtreme Alternate History

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Xtreme Alternate History Alternatives to History with No Holds Barred!

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  #46  
Old 14 Dec 14, 17:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljadw View Post
1)almost means : not
Almost means almost. The Germans came close.

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2)It was not almost : before the battle Moltke said that it was not possible to drive back the French to the Swiss border
Nor would the Germans have had to. Capturing Paris would have finished the war. Capture of most of France to Paris would likely have ended the war. France would have capitulated as they did in 1870, and in 1940 long before the whole country was overrun.

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3)A German victory at the Marne would not have forced France to give up
Maybe, maybe not. But, it would have left the French in a really precarious position. The BEF likely would have had to withdraw from the continent much like they did in 1940, maybe under less pressure but still in that sort of position.

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4)The role of the BEF in the Marne battle was minimal
But its presence was critical to stopping the German advance. Without the BEF delaying the Germans first at Mons, then in holding the open left of the Allied lines and in closing the gaps on the left.
Without the BEF's presence the Germans would have turned the French left even with the battle of the Marne and likely defeated them.


5)The French won at the Marne because they were stronger than the Germans(every day since the DOW,the French became stronger:they had a lot of reserves which the Germans had not)[/QUOTE]
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  #47  
Old 14 Dec 14, 21:22
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The French won at the Marne in 1914, because:
1) the Kaiser had sent the reserves to fight the Russians (ignoring the Schlieffen plan)
2) Germany had suffered heavy losses in Belgium and fighting the British and the French, which had had time to move the bulk of their limited artillery
3) the Germans had run low on artillery ammunition in Belgium and fighting the British and had poor supply lines (repairing destroyed Belgian RR network and bridges absorbed a lot of manpower and materials, which were not used enhancing supplies in France)
4) The Germans did not exploit the invaluable capture of the Reims fortification and promptly lost it to the French counter attack.

If as suggested, the Germans attack only France, none of that happens. All the Belgian and British divisions don't kill and delay Germans. All the German shells kill only Frechmen, the French have less time to move ther artillery. German heavy guns are more than adequate to break thorugh the shallow border defensive line, then a pincer movement advancing to Reims and along the Belgian-French border to Sedan, would isolate much of the French army. All the manpower can be used to enhance the supply lines through France.
The fast advance in France does not allow time for the Russians to advance deep into East Prussia before Reims falls, so the Kaiser sees the fall of France comming and does not send the reserves to fight the Russians (where they were not really needed by Hndenburg).
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  #48  
Old 15 Dec 14, 17:36
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Originally Posted by Draco View Post
It is interesting that in WW I the allied navy prevented the fall of a small area in the Belgian-French coast by shelling German troops, while in 1940, German tanks were not shelled.
Ask fat Hermann
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  #49  
Old 15 Dec 14, 19:00
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Fat Hermann was busy supporting land forces where there were few enemy planes and could do little against shipping in bad weather and with strong fighter cover from southern Birtain with Radar. RAF lost plenty of planes supporting the evacuation in distant Dunkirk and none supporting waships shelling to keep Guderian away from nearby Calais, etc,
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  #50  
Old 17 Dec 14, 16:13
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I really do feel that it would be better for members to be discussing real history and plausible what ifs. Pandering to Draco's insultingly stupid and irritating mad theories helps noone.
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  #51  
Old 17 Dec 14, 16:33
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Originally Posted by WarMachine View Post
I really do feel that it would be better for members to be discussing real history and plausible what ifs. Pandering to Draco's insultingly stupid and irritating mad theories helps noone.
You entered the Xtreme Alternate History section of this forum.
I'm glad someone keeps it alive.... Sometimes interesting discussions arise like btw TAG and Brod.
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  #52  
Old 17 Dec 14, 18:20
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Originally Posted by WarMachine View Post
I really do feel that it would be better for members to be discussing real history and plausible what ifs. Pandering to Draco's insultingly stupid and irritating mad theories helps noone.
Like Physics, history is weirder than fiction. Few things can be more irritatingly stupid and implausible than the RN losing a carrier to naval guns in 1940, Germany defeating France-Britain-Belgium-Holland in weeks, Rommel's weak army defeating Ritchie's mighty army in Gazala, Churchill sending 2 battleships to Malaya without aircover, cruisers or a decent number of DD's to be promptly lost, Yamashita's weak army without supplies defeating the much larger army of Percival in weeks, Churchill wasting thousands of men, dozens of tanks, planes, landing craft, etc, raiding Dieppe, Churchill wasting thousands of men, hundreds of planes and several ships invading the useless Dodecanese, etc,
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  #53  
Old 17 Dec 14, 19:10
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Originally Posted by Hanov View Post
You entered the Xtreme Alternate History section of this forum.
I'm glad someone keeps it alive.... Sometimes interesting discussions arise like btw TAG and Brod.
I agree. Only it seems to me that all the threads Draco makes result in those who certainly know their stuff become exhausted and frustrated at trying to get Draco to back up his truely xtreme alternate timelines with real facts.

But concerning specifically the Xtreme Alternate History part of the forum I have to say, I would love to see one on a joint and simultaneous German-Italian/ Japanese invasion of the US from East and West after subduing the British Empire, Soviet Union and China in around 1943.

Now that is xtreme!
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