P38 or Luger - Who Got What?

[BCap]

Since the Wehrmacht issued both the P38 and the Luger during WWII (not to mention other pistols), who got which weapon? Was it random who got what, were Lugers still issued after production ceased, etc.? Also, I remember reading in All Quiet on the Western Front that the main character had a revolver - did the Germans issue revolvers to enlisted men, and Lugers and other autos to officers, or what?

[Cult Icon]

I think it varied, and there was no set policy.

PPK- found most commonly with those with non-combat jobs and officers. Hitler shot himself with a PPK.

P-38-A front line pistol, machinegunners often carried them. The most common pistol I think.

-Lugar- Older weapon, issued in the same way as the P-38

Browning Hi-Power, Mauser C-96- Found in the Waffen SS (they used some special equipment.)

[Pruitt]

They were also using revolvers like the Nagant. Just about any conquered country could have its weapons used by the Germans as Ersatz (substitute) weapons.

You also have the weapons seized as loot during fighting. The Germans were fond of a number of Soviet weapons. Since the Americans and British used revolvers a bit, you could see them turn up in German hands as well.

Pruitt

[Jon Jordan]

Originally Posted by Pruitt

They were also using revolvers like the Nagant. Just about any conquered country could have its weapons used by the Germans as Ersatz (substitute) weapons.

You also have the weapons seized as loot during fighting. The Germans were fond of a number of Soviet weapons. Since the Americans and British used revolvers a bit, you could see them turn up in German hands as well.

Pruitt

True - Polish Radoms, Belgian Hi-Powers (as mentioned above). I'm not sure how many Lugers were issued by WW2. Most seem to think the P.08 ("Luger") a more elegant weapon, and definitely a bigger souvenir. (Eisenhower asked Montgomery to get him a couple of them as souvenirs.) In mud, I'd think the P.08 would be harder to keep from jamming, as it's angle flirts with jams more than the clunky P-38s.

I think the P.08 was more accurate - I took my 13-year old daughter out to shoot with a 1913 Luger the weekend before last and she did quite respectably with it.

[Pruitt]

I got the message from several Sven Hassel books that officers seemed to prefer the Luger and smaller pistols. The P-38 was considered an Enlisted Man's weapon. Then again ole Sven got a few things wrong!

Pruitt

[the ace]

I'd heard that officers often purchased their sidearms privately (it seemed the only way to get hold of the, 'Broom-handle ,' Mauser), so while an officer may've been issued with a Luger or Walther (perhaps depending on what the quartermaster had to hand that day) the weapon he carried could well have been different.

While the Walther officially replaced the Luger, some of the former may still have been on inventory anyway, and while regulations stipulated that a sidearm should be carried in certain situations, I don't think the type would be much of an issue.

The US Army is probably one of the few armies in the world to routinely issue sidearms to combat infantry, or where the troops were wealthy enough to buy their own. Any German, 'Grunt,' carrying a pistol would've obtained it by other means, perhaps legal.

[popuptarget]

1873 Reichs commission revolvers in 10.6mm were still issued up to WW1..believe some would have found employment with police and non line units In ww2.

[the ace]

Originally Posted by popuptarget

1873 Reichs commission revolvers in 10.6mm were still issued up to WW1..believe some would have found employment with police and non line units In ww2.

It would surprise no-one.

[17thfabn]

Originally Posted by the ace

The US Army is probably one of the few armies in the world to routinely issue sidearms to combat infantry, or where the troops were wealthy enough to buy their own. Any German, 'Grunt,' carrying a pistol would've obtained it by other means, perhaps legal.

"Officially" per the TO&E handguns were fairly rare in the U.S. Army.
In an Infantry company only some members of the the machine gun and mortar crews carried pistols. The company commander (Captain) platoon leaders (lieutenant) and 1st sergeant all carried M-1 carbines.

The U.S. Army prefered for its members to carry M-1 carbines if they were in job that did not require them to carry an M-1 rifle. The carbine was much more effective than the 1911 Colt .45 pistol.

Of course many U.S. soldiers carried weapons other than those that appeared on the official TO&E.

[BCap]

Originally Posted by 17thfabn

"Officially" per the TO&E handguns were fairly rare in the U.S. Army.
In an Infantry company only some members of the the machine gun and mortar crews carried pistols. The company commander (Captain) platoon leaders (lieutenant) and 1st sergeant all carried M-1 carbines.

The U.S. Army prefered for its members to carry M-1 carbines if they were in job that did not require them to carry an M-1 rifle. The carbine was much more effective than the 1911 Colt .45 pistol.

Of course many U.S. soldiers carried weapons other than those that appeared on the official TO&E.

Carbine might have been better over longer distances than the .45, but it lacked the sheer stopping power of the pistol.

[17thfabn]

Originally Posted by BCap

Carbine might have been better over longer distances than the .45, but it lacked the sheer stopping power of the pistol.

The carbine was better at any range beyond bayonet range!

A weapon that you can hit some one with is much better than a weapon with theoretically more "knockdown power" . Even shooting across a room your chances of hitting an enemy are much higher with a carbine than a hand gun when shooting under an extremely stressful environment such as close quarters combat.

Note that the M-1 Carbine's muzzle energy is over twice that off the 1911 Colt .45 ACP when using standard GI ammo. But at very short ranges the .45 is better at dumping its energy into a target.