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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Latin America & the Caribbean

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Latin America & the Caribbean Including issues of Central and South America and Mexico.

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  #76  
Old 12 Dec 12, 16:12
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Originally Posted by marktwain View Post
A Beached vacation in Stanley and /or Goose Green with Martha Stewart! cool:

-- 'I don't think so' attachment removed --
Bill, like Sean Connery,
http://www.seanconnery.com/

Suffers from 'too many choices, not enough time.."

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  #77  
Old 13 Dec 12, 12:22
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Originally Posted by queensman View Post
During the falklands war the argentine air force suffered very heavy casualties and in my humble opinion were very brave with quite a few ditching on the way home.
Of all there forces they rose to the occasion and took the fight to the british, dont underestimate them.

... .... .. -
It takes a brave man and unique pilot to go on a war sortie knowing he had the fuel for one way only.
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  #78  
Old 13 Dec 12, 16:52
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I don't think anyonehas ever questioned the bravery of the Argentine pilits, just their leadership and their technical competence.

They were a classic developing nation with enough cash to buy adequate weapons systems but without the capability to deploy them properly.
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  #79  
Old 13 Dec 12, 17:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billscottmorri View Post
I don't think anyonehas ever questioned the bravery of the Argentine pilits, just their leadership and their technical competence.

They were a classic developing nation with enough cash to buy adequate weapons systems but without the capability to deploy them properly.
Many years ago read 'air war South Atlantic' and it seemed to me vry fair and balanced.

It put the Argentine airforce in a good light as very brave and good pilots but naive tactically.
Such thing as the attacks bravely pressed but un co-ordinated so the small Harrier force wasn't overwhelmed.

Not forcing the Harrier high where it was at a disadvantage but (bravely) meeting it where it was most comfortable.

The RN picket warships attacked -- damgage in flicted (ships sunk) Pride/Honour gained--- but the tansports left alone! fatal and simple mistake.
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  #80  
Old 13 Dec 12, 18:18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billscottmorri View Post
I don't think anyonehas ever questioned the bravery of the Argentine pilits, just their leadership and their technical competence.

They were a classic developing nation with enough cash to buy adequate weapons systems but without the capability to deploy them properly.
And again,I suppose it's the Juan Fangio syndrome: the Argentine serviceman might not have been so good at slogging through the mud but given something flashy to play with: it's rather a different story.
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  #81  
Old 14 Dec 12, 05:37
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Originally Posted by Bass_Man86 View Post
Nice try but no cigar. The "settlement" you name was made of thirteen (13) men that as you mentioned were allegedly engaged in piracy. Thirteen men is not a settlement, it's a small circle of friends. The Brits were the one's that actually permanently settled the islands and the current residents are perfectly happy to remain British citizens. So, who is playing colonial power here?
Besides, the settlement wasn't exactly "Argentinean". Its leader was named Luis Vernet, his second in command was Matthew Brisbane, and most of the people there were of German origin. Yeah, the United Provinces of River Plate had granted Vernet authority - over a piece of land they had no authority over, and interestingly Vernet had played both cards, because he had also repeatedly asked the permission of another government. Guess what government.

The United Provinces' authority over the islands was never recognized either by the british or by anyone else, pointedly the USS Lexington's raid was carried out exactly because US sealers did not recognize the settlement's unilaterally declared monopoly.

Finally, the 13 men mentioned above (plus a couple of women and a few children), by the time they left (they weren't expelled), were certainly no "Argentinean" settlement. They had been led by William Dickson and, under RN instructions, they raised the British flag every time there was a ship in the harbor.

In short, the whole story is a private enterprise that failed, after having tried to play the states involved one against the other. The United Provinces' attempts were nothing but bluffs. The first one was the exploitation of said private enterprise itself. The ones coming to see the bluff weren't the British but the Americans.
The second bluff was the deployment of military forces. These, however, when the RN appeared, left the place without a fight. That's why they were a bluff.
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  #82  
Old 14 Dec 12, 07:56
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sorry wrong picture posted

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Hell no! She was born Martha Helen Kostyra in Jersey City, world-capital of the "Five-Finger Discount." Stewart is her ex-husband's name. She kept it only 'cause it suits her über-WASP self-image.

And I'd still rather ball Christina Kirchner than Martha Stewart.



Transported back to 1959 by a Michevious Doctor Who, Slick rapidly changes his mind...
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  #83  
Old 14 Dec 12, 11:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevinmeath View Post
Many years ago read 'air war South Atlantic' and it seemed to me vry fair and balanced.

It put the Argentine airforce in a good light as very brave and good pilots but naive tactically.
Such thing as the attacks bravely pressed but un co-ordinated so the small Harrier force wasn't overwhelmed.

Not forcing the Harrier high where it was at a disadvantage but (bravely) meeting it where it was most comfortable.

The RN picket warships attacked -- damgage in flicted (ships sunk) Pride/Honour gained--- but the tansports left alone! fatal and simple mistake.
Thank god for there mistakes.
The whole campaign was on a knife edge from the begining.

... .... .. -
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  #84  
Old 14 Dec 12, 11:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queensman View Post

... .... .. -
I can read that, I still remember my -- --- .-. ... . !
But while the margin was narrow, I don't think it was that narrow.
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  #85  
Old 14 Dec 12, 14:44
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Originally Posted by Michele View Post
I can read that, I still remember my -- --- .-. ... . !
But while the margin was narrow, I don't think it was that narrow.
Ha you are the first one
its a bit difficult doing it on the cell phone app crapatalk, oops i mean tapatalk.


... .... .. -
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  #86  
Old 14 Dec 12, 20:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevinmeath View Post
Many years ago read 'air war South Atlantic' and it seemed to me vry fair and balanced.

It put the Argentine airforce in a good light as very brave and good pilots but naive tactically.
Such thing as the attacks bravely pressed but un co-ordinated so the small Harrier force wasn't overwhelmed.

Not forcing the Harrier high where it was at a disadvantage but (bravely) meeting it where it was most comfortable.

The RN picket warships attacked -- damgage in flicted (ships sunk) Pride/Honour gained--- but the tansports left alone! fatal and simple mistake.

I found this 'pocket war ' fascinating, if for no other reason than the huge unmeasured bluff by the argentine generals. The spur of the moment planning, & the strange lack of resources to accomplish the task.

For instance, they lacked adequate refuelling aircraft & matching probes, even though used air tankers have been a glut on the market, & could have been purchased under the guise of forest patrol tankers& spray equipment!

The only way they could have won (or stood a chance) was to land massive supplies, including runway pavement, at Stanley in the first week.

After that- submarine alley...
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  #87  
Old 14 Dec 12, 21:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marktwain View Post
I found this 'pocket war ' fascinating, if for no other reason than the huge unmeasured bluff by the argentine generals. The spur of the moment planning, & the strange lack of resources to accomplish the task.

For instance, they lacked adequate refuelling aircraft & matching probes, even though used air tankers have been a glut on the market, & could have been purchased under the guise of forest patrol tankers& spray equipment!

The only way they could have won (or stood a chance) was to land massive supplies, including runway pavement, at Stanley in the first week.

After that- submarine alley...
When they sank the atlantic conveyor there were a lot of twitching bottoms among the british top brass, all but one chinook went down, imagine supplying an army with one chinook and a handful of sea kings, wessex and lynx.
Good job that the average tom is used to carrying everything he needs and extra ammo, pity we had shite boots at the time

... .... .. -
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Old 14 Dec 12, 21:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queensman View Post
When they sank the atlantic conveyor there were a lot of twitching bottoms among the british top brass, all but one chinook went down, imagine supplying an army with one chinook and a handful of sea kings, wessex and lynx.
Good job that the average tom is used to carrying everything he needs and extra ammo, pity we had shite boots at the time

... .... .. -
DMS boots, puttees and condensed milk in a tube. Those were the days

Mind you, the condensed milk was lovely, especially when applied to an oatmeal block.

Paul
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  #89  
Old 15 Dec 12, 01:13
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The supply line was stretched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by queensman View Post
When they sank the atlantic conveyor there were a lot of twitching bottoms among the british top brass, all but one chinook went down, imagine supplying an army with one chinook and a handful of sea kings, wessex and lynx.
Good job that the average tom is used to carrying everything he needs and extra ammo, pity we had shite boots at the time

... .... .. -
The War was a magnificent wake up call for All of NATO as well as Britain. My impression was that the Argentine decision to invade was 'spur of the moment'.
"Command of the under sea'is a concept that no one has ignored since!
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Old 15 Dec 12, 01:31
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A produc t of the 1970's Grain boom...

Quote:
Originally Posted by billscottmorri View Post
I don't think anyonehas ever questioned the bravery of the Argentine pilits, just their leadership and their technical competence.

They were a classic developing nation with enough cash to buy adequate weapons systems but without the capability to deploy them properly.
Argentina thrived inthe 1970's, despite the inturnal dirty war, based on abundant export harvests at high prices- & was in serious trouble in the early eighties- hence the 'Falklands Circus'.

You also had amilitary Junta with no insight into their own air force- only two air refuelers!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argenti..._Falklands_War
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