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North America Important Events in Canada and the United States. .

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  #121  
Old Yesterday, 12:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nichols View Post
It goes back to what I posted earlier:



There have been times that had the crews not taken any corrective action, the vessels probably wouldn't have collided.

From Vaeltaja's link:

The container ship steered hard to starboard (right) to avoid the warship, but hit the Fitzgerald 10 minutes later at 1:30 a.m., according to a copy of Captain Ronald Advincula's report to Japanese ship owner Dainichi Investment Corporation that was seen by Reuters.

Had the container ship stayed on course and not "steered hard to starboard".......... 10 minutes later it would have crossed the Fitzgerald's wake instead of ramming her.
I don't see in the trackings, a hard starboard turn 10 minutes before the hit
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  #122  
Old Yesterday, 12:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin View Post
I don't see in the trackings, a hard starboard turn 10 minutes before the hit
That's one reason why I think the ACX's Captain is lying his @$$ off about this. The tracking data doesn't match his claimed actions.
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  #123  
Old Yesterday, 12:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nichols View Post
It goes back to what I posted earlier:



There have been times that had the crews not taken any corrective action, the vessels probably wouldn't have collided.

From Vaeltaja's link:

The container ship steered hard to starboard (right) to avoid the warship, but hit the Fitzgerald 10 minutes later at 1:30 a.m., according to a copy of Captain Ronald Advincula's report to Japanese ship owner Dainichi Investment Corporation that was seen by Reuters.

Had the container ship stayed on course and not "steered hard to starboard".......... 10 minutes later it would have crossed the Fitzgerald's wake instead of ramming her.
It is human nature to want to take action if disaster seems imminent. And worse, we as a species will blame those who took no action before an accident over those that took evasive action before an accident, even if both decisions were a primary cause.

To the general population, deciding to stand by and doing nothing as you are involved in an accident is worse than mistakenly trying to avoid yet still being involved in an accident. The latter has that "At least I tried!" effect.

But yeah, it's an interesting phenomenon, the avoidance maneuver just making things worse. Some have even sugggested that the RMS Titanic would have stayed afloat if they'd just struck the iceberg head-on, since the damage would have been limited to a single compartment. It's a deep irony that sometimes, actually being incompetent and making a bigger mistake could have led to a better outcome.
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  #124  
Old Yesterday, 12:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
In a heavy traffic area, this is the sort of thing you see visually...
Sure. But then again that is only to be expected. It shouldn't be a shock or even a hindrance. From personal night sailing the biggest problem is that things tend to creep on you - i mean they do get bigger in binoculars but when they do it gradually it is much more difficult to perceive.
Quote:
Until the lights get under about a mile (eg., less than 2000 yards, maybe less than 1000) they don't change size to the human eye. They all look like dots of light roughly the same size.
The problem is trying to pick out one ship's from the cluster of lights you see.
True, but i doubt Fitzgerald's lookouts would have been using just the Mk I Eyeball.
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No, the moment you recognize that your course is one that could lead to collision, you need to do something, not just rely on the other ship to do something. That is, if you know range is closing and bearing is constant, that a collision is possible. That means you alter your course while continuing to try and contact the other vessel.
Problem for that is the colregs kinda make it clear it is primarily up to the give-way vessel to do that. And even make it clear that the stand-on vessel should... "Where one of two vessels is to keep out of the way the other shall keep her course and speed.". And only in case give-way vessel does not heed by the colregs then to maneuver.
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  #125  
Old Yesterday, 13:02
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Originally Posted by Moulin View Post
I don't see in the trackings, a hard starboard turn 10 minutes before the hit
Neither do i. Then again we haven't actually seen the statement. He might be referring to time between perceiving the potential collision situation and the collision. If he is trying to say they started the turn 10 minutes prior then he is lying is ass off. But we shall see. Hopefully.



Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
That's one reason why I think the ACX's Captain is lying his @$$ off about this. The tracking data doesn't match his claimed actions.
Not for the 'turned hard starboard 10 minutes prior' but we shall see how it goes. It does match his statement of starting the turn to starboard prior to the collision.
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  #126  
Old Yesterday, 13:33
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here is another version of the ACX track
sure looks like it's on auto, as it goes back on course after what appears to be the collision at 1:04 mark of the video
--why the extremely sharp turn, then back on original course?
..also has positions of other ships

Last edited by Moulin; Yesterday at 13:57..
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  #127  
Old Yesterday, 13:44
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Still doesn't answer the question of why the US vessel, with radar and sensor arrays out the wazoo, not avoiding the collision, nor the reason why the autopilot permitted the sharp turn to begin with.

I suspect it was deliberately reset by the bridge crew.
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  #128  
Old Yesterday, 13:58
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Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
Still doesn't answer the question of why the US vessel, with radar and sensor arrays out the wazoo, not avoiding the collision, nor the reason why the autopilot permitted the sharp turn to begin with.

I suspect it was deliberately reset by the bridge crew.
yes....super sharp turn, then back on course....?!?
unless the auto pilot did not shut off...?

Last edited by Moulin; Yesterday at 14:57..
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  #129  
Old Yesterday, 14:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
Still doesn't answer the question of why the US vessel, with radar and sensor arrays out the wazoo, not avoiding the collision, nor the reason why the autopilot permitted the sharp turn to begin with.

I suspect it was deliberately reset by the bridge crew.
Only two radar sets really matter here: The SPS 67 and 73, as these are the two surface search and navigation radars aboard the ship.
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  #130  
Old Yesterday, 14:58
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Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
Only two radar sets really matter here: The SPS 67 and 73, as these are the two surface search and navigation radars aboard the ship.
how detailed is the range for those under 10,000 yards?
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  #131  
Old Yesterday, 16:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin View Post
how detailed is the range for those under 10,000 yards?
SPS 67:



SPS 73:



You need lookouts to determine exactly what you're seeing on the radar plot.
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  #132  
Old Yesterday, 18:26
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Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
Only two radar sets really matter here: The SPS 67 and 73, as these are the two surface search and navigation radars aboard the ship.
great pics ..thanks

maybe I missed it...will it tell if something is like 1000y, 500y, 2000y? how detailed /specific is the range?
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