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American Age of Discovery, Colonization, Revolution, & Expansion Military history of North America. .

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  #61  
Old 30 Jun 15, 01:08
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Some of the other "usual suspects" are the Phoenicians, the Egyptians, the Minoans. The list is long!

Jennie try to get ahold of Ancient Americans magazine. They have articles on the Welsh in North America in places like West Virginia and Ohio.

Pruitt
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  #62  
Old 30 Jun 15, 09:21
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Some of the other "usual suspects" are the Phoenicians, the Egyptians, the Minoans. The list is long!

Jennie try to get ahold of Ancient Americans magazine. They have articles on the Welsh in North America in places like West Virginia and Ohio.

Pruitt
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  #63  
Old 01 Jul 15, 07:03
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Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
Some of the other "usual suspects" are the Phoenicians, the Egyptians, the Minoans. The list is long!

Jennie try to get ahold of Ancient Americans magazine. They have articles on the Welsh in North America in places like West Virginia and Ohio.

Pruitt
The waters are somewhat muddied on the claim that Prince Madog ab Owain Gwynedd. discovered America by the fact that the legend was assiduously fostered by Queen Elizabeth I as it was very convenient to be able to counter claims of supremacy in the Americas by Spain and Portugal based on the rights of discovery (by Columbus) by claiming that a man from Britain got there first.
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  #64  
Old 01 Jul 15, 10:40
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The "discovered" America concept is actually pretty ridiculous. The population of South and central America is primarily of native origin with a rich cultural history, complete with written language and historic sites/ruins/shrines, etc. Their sites easily outclass Viking ruins and language, yet we say the Vikings discovered America? North America still has a substantial native population as well, though dwarfed in numbers by the cousins in South America. South Americans may speak Spanish and Portugese as their primary languages, but clearly they are natives and ancestors of the Mayans, Aztecs, etc. Wouldn't it be more accurate to say who the first to visit the Americas was rather than discovered?
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  #65  
Old 01 Jul 15, 12:35
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The "discovered" America concept is actually pretty ridiculous. The population of South and central America is primarily of native origin with a rich cultural history, complete with written language and historic sites/ruins/shrines, etc. Their sites easily outclass Viking ruins and language, yet we say the Vikings discovered America? North America still has a substantial native population as well, though dwarfed in numbers by the cousins in South America. South Americans may speak Spanish and Portugese as their primary languages, but clearly they are natives and ancestors of the Mayans, Aztecs, etc. Wouldn't it be more accurate to say who the first to visit the Americas was rather than discovered?
As has already been pointed out in this thread discover has a specific meaning - ie dis - cover or reveal to the rest of the world. To discover somewhere you have to go there and then come back and tell other people about it.
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  #66  
Old 02 Jul 15, 08:47
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As has already been pointed out in this thread discover has a specific meaning - ie dis - cover or reveal to the rest of the world. To discover somewhere you have to go there and then come back and tell other people about it.
Missed that....
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  #67  
Old 08 Jul 15, 16:47
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Jennie try to get ahold of Ancient Americans magazine. They have articles on the Welsh in North America in places like West Virginia and Ohio.
I've not heard of Welsh, but Celts from the Spanish and French coasts of Biscayne I've heard had reached the New World, replete with Ogham script on phallic stones. Those guys even got a plug in the Bible for building strong ships.
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  #68  
Old 08 Jul 15, 18:48
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I've not heard of Welsh, but Celts from the Spanish and French coasts of Biscayne I've heard had reached the New World, replete with Ogham script on phallic stones. Those guys even got a plug in the Bible for building strong ships.
Seeing as how the Atlantic became a kind of Portuguese 'pond' and because of seasonal currents and wind may well have fished before recording journals. It would not be impossible for some sailors a few degrees to the North to make the journey. One of Thor Heyerdahl's Ra expeditions reached the other side of the Atlantic. Its interesting though.
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Old 08 Jul 15, 18:54
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I've not heard of Welsh, but Celts from the Spanish and French coasts of Biscayne I've heard had reached the New World, replete with Ogham script on phallic stones. Those guys even got a plug in the Bible for building strong ships.
How do you think the Lusitanians made it to Ireland?

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  #70  
Old 08 Jul 15, 18:57
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How do you think the Lusitanians made it to Ireland?

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Assuming its an open question, I would put forward a theory that as Portugal has a land barrier... mountains, to compensate they concentrated on sailing skills.... as being an easier option to adventure.
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Old 08 Jul 15, 19:03
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Assuming its an open question, I would put forward a theory that as Portugal has a land barrier... mountains, to compensate they concentrated on sailing skills.... as being an easier option to adventure.
Perfectly true although I suspect that it wasn't so much the mountains as a powerful Spanish army but they went South and Eastwards
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Old 08 Jul 15, 19:15
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Perfectly true although I suspect that it wasn't so much the mountains as a powerful Spanish army but they went South and Eastwards
With respect, I was thinking earlier than Spain's 'Golden Age' in that today we see the sea as a greater barrier to land, historically the reverse may well have been more true, e.g. Dilmun being Persian Gulf based than desert... ?
A speculation.
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Old 08 Jul 15, 19:18
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With respect, I was thinking earlier than Spain's 'Golden Age' in that today we see the sea as a greater barrier to land, historically the reverse may well have been more true, e.g. Dilmun being Persian Gulf based than desert... ?
A speculation.
But consider Portugal also had a golden age of maritime exploration, did she have the technical capability before then?
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Old 08 Jul 15, 19:35
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How do you think the Lusitanians made it to Ireland?

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Wish I could find it now, but many a moon ago I wrote a piece about Celts reaching the Americas during the Roman era (earned a B in a freshman university class while I was still a high school junior -- and a C-note to boot. ) Apparently Celts in Iberia had established mercantile and shipbuilding industries even before Alexander thought to conquer the world. There can be no doubt that they were influenced by Phoenicians and later Carthaginians, but being on Iberia's northern and western coasts, they went north and west instead of south and east into the already crowded Mediterranean. Thus their ships were of a more robust design and construction than the Mediterranean ships. Caesar noted the Celts' superior ships and seamanship in his Gallic Wars. The Old Testament's 1Kings and Ezekiel mention the ships of "Tarshish," which is believed to be Tartessos, located about 100km west of Gibraltar at the mouth of the River Gualdaquivir. If they made it to Britain and to Ireland, is North America really out of the question?
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Old 08 Jul 15, 19:39
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But consider Portugal also had a golden age of maritime exploration, did she have the technical capability before then?
I have a feeling, though needs to be verified that the cod banks of Newfoundland may have been a happy hunting ground before their great Seabourne Empire was a reality. I will ask my resident Portuguese colleague tomorrow if he has any leads on this, assuming he passes by our Centre. At least he may be able to give some pointers....
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