HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > American Age of Discovery, Colonization, Revolution, & Expansion

Notices and Announcements

American Age of Discovery, Colonization, Revolution, & Expansion Military history of North America. .

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12 Oct 16, 09:26
Surrey's Avatar
Surrey Surrey is offline
General of the Forums
UK
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 
Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Surrey
Posts: 6,200
Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500]
Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500]
Scots and the Klan

A recent documentary on the BBC linked Scottish emigration to the Southern Colonies (States after independence) with the development of slavery, the confederacy and ultimately the KKK.

The line was that the Scots emigrated to America in the c18th to avoid poverty in Scotland. They then became the slave lords seeing themselves 'lairds' in the new country. After the civil war they formed the Klan. Much of the Klan culture, e.g. The burning cross being if Scottish origin.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/z3xhhv4
__________________
"To be free is better than to be unfree - always."
Reply With Quote
Facebook Connect and Magazine Promotions

World War II Magazine
$26.95

Armchair General Magazine
$26.95
Military History Magazine
$26.95
  #2  
Old 12 Oct 16, 11:21
Arnold J Rimmer's Avatar
Arnold J Rimmer Arnold J Rimmer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Red Dwarf
Posts: 23,649
Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
The Klan's historic headquarters is in the north (Chicago). Given that slavery was well established in the Colonies in the 1600s, and the Southern elite with of English descent, I would say that it is just another attempt to blame things on the Scots.

Not that the Scots don't deserve a lot of blame on a wide variety of areas, but this one they can dodge.
__________________
Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 17 Oct 16, 17:15
Stonewall_Jack's Avatar
Stonewall_Jack Stonewall_Jack is offline
General
United_States
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 4,129
Stonewall_Jack has demonstrated strength of character [100] Stonewall_Jack has demonstrated strength of character [100] Stonewall_Jack has demonstrated strength of character [100] Stonewall_Jack has demonstrated strength of character [100] Stonewall_Jack has demonstrated strength of character [100] Stonewall_Jack has demonstrated strength of character [100] Stonewall_Jack has demonstrated strength of character [100] Stonewall_Jack has demonstrated strength of character [100]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
The Klan's historic headquarters is in the north (Chicago). Given that slavery was well established in the Colonies in the 1600s, and the Southern elite with of English descent, I would say that it is just another attempt to blame things on the Scots.

Not that the Scots don't deserve a lot of blame on a wide variety of areas, but this one they can dodge.
Usually "the Irish" are given the shaft. As for the " The Scots"....noyone really talks about them.


But as I have Irish and Scottish background, I am very proud of my ancestors. My ancestors took no garbage from nobody. And we also do not complain about our lot in life. Irish and Scots have stood up for what was right, and have fought and died for what is right. <---- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3ubag7dtn4
__________________
Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
The philosophy of the gospel is the philosophy of equality, consequently the most favorable to republican government
-Napoleon Bonaparte
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12 Oct 16, 14:43
Surrey's Avatar
Surrey Surrey is offline
General of the Forums
UK
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 
Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Surrey
Posts: 6,200
Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500]
Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500]
The klan was founded in Tennessee by six rebels of Scots and Irish decent. The name Klan is Scottish. The burning cross is Scottish. The book the clansmen was written by an American Scot.
While slavery was in the colonies in the 17th century, Scots settlers expanded it and were disproportionately involved in using slaves to farm cotton

And before you think the program was aimed at being anti Scots it was presented by a historian with a reputation of being a Scots nat.
__________________
"To be free is better than to be unfree - always."
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12 Oct 16, 14:48
Arnold J Rimmer's Avatar
Arnold J Rimmer Arnold J Rimmer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Red Dwarf
Posts: 23,649
Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surrey View Post
The klan was founded in Tennessee by six rebels of Scots and Irish decent. The name Klan is Scottish. The burning cross is Scottish. The book the clansmen was written by an American Scot.
While slavery was in the colonies in the 17th century, Scots settlers expanded it and were disproportionately involved in using slaves to farm cotton

And before you think the program was aimed at being anti Scots it was presented by a historian with a reputation of being a Scots nat.
So his bias was in a different direction. Who trusts a Scot?

I would have to see hard data proving that Scot settlers were a majority of slave owners before I bought it.

I know where the Klan was started, but as a national movement it was firmly rooted in the North. And still is.
__________________
Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12 Oct 16, 15:07
Surrey's Avatar
Surrey Surrey is offline
General of the Forums
UK
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 
Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Surrey
Posts: 6,200
Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500]
Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
So his bias was in a different direction. Who trusts a Scot?

I would have to see hard data proving that Scot settlers were a majority of slave owners before I bought it.

I know where the Klan was started, but as a national movement it was firmly rooted in the North. And still is.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan

I take it by north you mean to the north of Texas? Although may be not as the FBI was carrying out anti klan operations in Dallas in the 90s.

The rebel flag was even based on the Scottish flag.
__________________
"To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

Last edited by Surrey; 12 Oct 16 at 15:21..
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12 Oct 16, 15:19
Arnold J Rimmer's Avatar
Arnold J Rimmer Arnold J Rimmer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Red Dwarf
Posts: 23,649
Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surrey View Post
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan

I take it by north you mean to the north of Texas?

The rebel flag was even based on the Scottish flag.
Copying a design is hardly evidence.

And wiki's accuracy is not all it is cracked up to be, especially on topics such as the KKK. The blue states are very careful to gloss over their more colorful bits of local history. They don't like to mention the days when a 'race riot' meant blacks hanging from lamp posts in a major city (Chicago, Detroit, NYC). The USN even had to shell NYC neighborhoods in one case.

But we are drifting. The key issue is whether the numbers exist to support the theory that the Scots amped up the use of slaves.
__________________
Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12 Oct 16, 15:38
the ace's Avatar
the ace the ace is offline
General of the Forums
Scotland
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls 
 
Real Name: Andrew
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 5,668
the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700]
the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700]
a) Scots are Celts, not Anglo-Saxons.

b) The St Andrew's Cross is not an uncommon motif in flag design.

c) In emergencies, Scottish clan chiefs would send a burning saltire or - even a brand - to summon their warriors, there were no mythical ceremonies attached.

d) "Clan," is spelled with a, "C."

Were there Scots immigrants among the slave-owners of the South ? Most certainly.

Were some of them among the leading lights of this despicable organisation ? Beyond a doubt.

Was one small group responsible for a mass movement across the entire Deep South ? Pull the other one.

Oh and Neil Oliver is a Unionist to the core - I'm just surprised he didn't try to blame the SNP for this, as he usually does everything else.
__________________
Indyref2 - still, "Yes."
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12 Oct 16, 15:56
Pruitt's Avatar
Pruitt Pruitt is offline
ACG Forums - General Staff
France
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Summer Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls 
 
Real Name: Richard Pruitt
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sulphur, LA
Posts: 28,130
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surrey View Post
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_KlanThe rebel flag was even based on the Scottish flag.
I think you are referring to the Confederate Battle Flag. There were at least three "National" Confederate Flags. The units might fly a Battle Flag and/or a State Flag. Louisiana Troops often flew the state flag, sometimes called the Pelican Flag. The Unionists also flew it. The difference is one nest held three chicks and one held five chicks. I can't recall which was which.

Pruitt
__________________
Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 14 Oct 16, 02:57
Wooden Wonder's Avatar
Wooden Wonder Wooden Wonder is offline
Brigadier General
UK
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 2,325
Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surrey View Post
The klan was founded in Tennessee by six rebels of Scots and Irish decent. The name Klan is Scottish. The burning cross is Scottish. The book the clansmen was written by an American Scot.
While slavery was in the colonies in the 17th century, Scots settlers expanded it and were disproportionately involved in using slaves to farm cotton

And before you think the program was aimed at being anti Scots it was presented by a historian with a reputation of being a Scots nat.
I wonder if the 'Burning Cross' can find its origins in the pagan 'Wicker Man'?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #11  
Old 15 Oct 16, 08:29
slick_miester's Avatar
slick_miester slick_miester is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
 
Real Name: Marc
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 25,596
slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surrey View Post
The klan was founded in Tennessee by six rebels of Scots and Irish decent. The name Klan is Scottish.
Point of fact: "Ku Klux" is derived from "κύκλος," or "circle" in Greek. The KKK's founders were university graduates, and their intent wasn't to instill terror in freedmen, but to restore some measure of the fraternity of their youth. Only later did the Klan develop its more sinister connotations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuklos
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuklos_Adelphon

The Scots-Irish influence was certainly part-and-parcel of the US independence movement of the late 18th century, and has certainly colored 200 years of US anglophobia (think Andrew Jackson) but I don't think that Scots-Irish culture played any outsized role in the Confederate or Lost Cause movements.
__________________
I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 15 Oct 16, 13:12
Surrey's Avatar
Surrey Surrey is offline
General of the Forums
UK
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 
Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Surrey
Posts: 6,200
Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500]
Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500]
Quote:
Originally Posted by slick_miester View Post
Point of fact: "Ku Klux" is derived from "κύκλος," or "circle" in Greek. The KKK's founders were university graduates, and their intent wasn't to instill terror in freedmen, but to restore some measure of the fraternity of their youth. Only later did the Klan develop its more sinister connotations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuklos
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuklos_Adelphon

The Scots-Irish influence was certainly part-and-parcel of the US independence movement of the late 18th century, and has certainly colored 200 years of US anglophobia (think Andrew Jackson) but I don't think that Scots-Irish culture played any outsized role in the Confederate or Lost Cause movements.
Correction

The original Klans objective was to carry out an insurgency to restore white supremacy in he South. Carrying out numerous murders and acts of terrorism against black people and anyone who supported the Union. They were originally and still are a terrorist group.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_K...5.E2.80.931871
__________________
"To be free is better than to be unfree - always."
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 17 Oct 16, 11:19
slick_miester's Avatar
slick_miester slick_miester is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
 
Real Name: Marc
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 25,596
slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+] slick_miester has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surrey View Post
Correction

The original Klans objective was to carry out an insurgency to restore white supremacy in he South. Carrying out numerous murders and acts of terrorism against black people and anyone who supported the Union. They were originally and still are a terrorist group.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_K...5.E2.80.931871
I do believe that the original KKK, as founded by John Lester and his friends, was meant to be a fraternal organization. The political and criminal activism didn't become linked with the KKK until a year or two after founding.

Quote:
The first Klan was founded in Pulaski, Tennessee, sometime between December 1865 and August 1866 by six former members of the Confederate army[22] as a fraternal social club inspired at least in part by the then largely defunct Sons of Malta, from which parts of the initiation ceremony were borrowed, with the same purpose: "ludicrous initiations, the baffling of public curiosity, and the amusement for members were the only objects of the Klan."[23] The name is probably derived from the Greek word kuklos (κύκλος) which means circle.[24] The manual of rituals was printed by Laps D. McCord of Pulaski.[25]

According to The Cyclopædia of Fraternities (1907) "Beginning in April, 1867, there was a gradual transformation... The members had conjured up a veritable Frankenstein. They had played with an engine of power and mystery, though organized on entirely innocent lines, and found themselves overcome by a belief that something must lie behind it all—that there was, after all, a serious purpose, a work for the Klan to do."

Wikipedia
I'm guessing that the donning of hoods and sheets was common to Southern vigilantes and the like during the early Reconstruction period, and became grafted onto the KKK ritual only over time.

It would not be accurate to think of the KKK as a single monolithic coast-to-coast organization. Throughout its century and a half, the Klan has gone through many incarnations, and with the exception of the period of DC Stephenson's leadership in the 1920s, the Klan has always been organized along local lines, and the local chapters' association has usually been loose and informal. For example, in many dry locales, membership in the Klan was desirable because only Klansmen had access to alcohol.

That being said, there can be no doubt that the KKK was a genuine terrorist organization: they made plain their willingness to use armed violence in order to effect or discourage various forms of political activity. That is the very definition of terrorism.
__________________
I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 17 Oct 16, 11:57
Surrey's Avatar
Surrey Surrey is offline
General of the Forums
UK
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 
Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Surrey
Posts: 6,200
Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500]
Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500]
Quote:
Originally Posted by slick_miester View Post
I do believe that the original KKK, as founded by John Lester and his friends, was meant to be a fraternal organization. The political and criminal activism didn't become linked with the KKK until a year or two after founding.



I'm guessing that the donning of hoods and sheets was common to Southern vigilantes and the like during the early Reconstruction period, and became grafted onto the KKK ritual only over time.

It would not be accurate to think of the KKK as a single monolithic coast-to-coast organization. Throughout its century and a half, the Klan has gone through many incarnations, and with the exception of the period of DC Stephenson's leadership in the 1920s, the Klan has always been organized along local lines, and the local chapters' association has usually been loose and informal. For example, in many dry locales, membership in the Klan was desirable because only Klansmen had access to alcohol.

That being said, there can be no doubt that the KKK was a genuine terrorist organization: they made plain their willingness to use armed violence in order to effect or discourage various forms of political activity. That is the very definition of terrorism.
If you look at the time line the Klan was formed in December 1865 and its terrorist activities started in 1866. Not a long time as 'just a social club'. ..
__________________
"To be free is better than to be unfree - always."
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 17 Oct 16, 17:25
Arnold J Rimmer's Avatar
Arnold J Rimmer Arnold J Rimmer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Red Dwarf
Posts: 23,649
Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by slick_miester View Post
I do believe that the original KKK, as founded by John Lester and his friends, was meant to be a fraternal organization. The political and criminal activism didn't become linked with the KKK until a year or two after founding.
I agree. The history is pretty clear in that regard.


Quote:
Originally Posted by slick_miester View Post
I'm guessing that the donning of hoods and sheets was common to Southern vigilantes and the like during the early Reconstruction period, and became grafted onto the KKK ritual only over time.
Such robes and hoods (as masks, not pointed) were common to vigilante groups across the southwest in the 1850s until the 1880s. Often called Citizen Regulatory Groups, the dealt with issues caused by the thin spread of law enforcement during that period, with varying degrees of integrity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slick_miester View Post
It would not be accurate to think of the KKK as a single monolithic coast-to-coast organization. Throughout its century and a half, the Klan has gone through many incarnations, and with the exception of the period of DC Stephenson's leadership in the 1920s, the Klan has always been organized along local lines, and the local chapters' association has usually been loose and informal. For example, in many dry locales, membership in the Klan was desirable because only Klansmen had access to alcohol.
Pretty much.

Only about half the 150-odd lynchings in the USA have anything resembling a Klan association, and only about 25 are definitively Klan-related.

Interestingly, the worst excesses were seen in Detroit and Chicago, likewise without Klan affiliation.

Historically the Klan worked more by intimidation that anything else.
__________________
Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 14:19.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.