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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Napoleonic Era

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Napoleonic Era Discuss the many wars fought around the globe around the time of Napoleon. This forum is dedicated to the memory of Ben Weider and our late friend and long time ACG Staff member, Michael Brown, better known here as Post Captain.

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  #2266  
Old 31 Aug 11, 06:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexan View Post
The sailor and the gunner of Guards crew. On a horse the colonel of lejb-guards of the Semyonovsky regiment.
Many thanks for the description... + Rep!
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  #2267  
Old 31 Aug 11, 06:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewpeyia View Post
In the second picture you have it listed as a Horse Jager, I have previously seen it described as an Infantry Column Guide. He has Black facings which don't appear on my Horse Jager colour Chart (See attached).

Any thoughts on this?
Ed

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...1&d=1314780825
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...1&d=1314780825
The driver (The leader) of a column. Your description correct.
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  #2268  
Old 31 Aug 11, 11:09
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In response to msg 1512

Its a Denis Deighton plate of some Lancers de la Mancha that fought for King Ferdinand VIII and not Rey Jose.
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  #2269  
Old 31 Aug 11, 14:16
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Les plus belles coiffures des soldats de l'armée Russe

tiré du livre "Epopée Napoléonienne" Illustration de Pavel Alekhine
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File Type: jpg numérisation0015.jpg (384.3 KB, 250 views)
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  #2270  
Old 05 Sep 11, 10:16
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I am a bit confused...
Can someone explain to me, what is that guy on the picture in the right upper corner? It looks to me like a grenadier, but the mitre cap looks prussian... Who used to wear such "headwear", was it extended in the whole army or just in some units, maybe the origin.. It looks wonderful and I like grenadiers of any kind, so I'm interested in this one...
Thank you for your explanations!

Cheers!


Doesn't it look similar to this one?
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  #2271  
Old 05 Sep 11, 15:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolf Maister View Post
I am a bit confused...
Can someone explain to me, what is that guy on the picture in the right upper corner? It looks to me like a grenadier, but the mitre cap looks prussian... Who used to wear such "headwear", was it extended in the whole army or just in some units, maybe the origin.. It looks wonderful and I like grenadiers of any kind, so I'm interested in this one...
Thank you for your explanations!

Cheers!


Doesn't it look similar to this one?
He is Grenadier (or musketeer) of the Guard - see attached examples.... line trops wore the mitre

Last edited by Prinz Essling; 05 Sep 11 at 16:06..
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  #2272  
Old 06 Sep 11, 07:33
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Preussen_Grenadiermuetze_1808_gesamt

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  #2273  
Old 06 Sep 11, 09:29
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Thanks, but I'd like to know something more about the russian guard grenadiers (looking like those on Prinz Essling's pictures. You probably got me wrong, 'cause I posted a pic of and prussian grenadier but that was just to compare... Anyway, thank you and I hope to see more pictures of the Russian Guard Grenadiers.

Cheers.
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  #2274  
Old 06 Sep 11, 16:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolf Maister View Post
Thanks, but I'd like to know something more about the russian guard grenadiers (looking like those on Prinz Essling's pictures. You probably got me wrong, 'cause I posted a pic of and prussian grenadier but that was just to compare... Anyway, thank you and I hope to see more pictures of the Russian Guard Grenadiers.

Cheers.
Will post further black & white illustartios. Text below taken from translation by MARK CONRAD, 200 http://marksrussianmilitaryhistory.info/Visk14.html of

HISTORICAL DESCRIPTION OF THE CLOTHING AND ARMS OF THE RUSSIAN ARMY Volume XIV by A.V. VISKOVATOV 1851

Guards Infantry. 1801-1825

29 December 1802 – Confirmation was given to a new table of uniforms, accoutrements, and weapons for the three regiments in question, based upon which, as well as upon rules promulgated on 17 March of this year regarding uniforms for Army infantry, combatant and noncombatant ranks of Guards heavy infantry were given the same uniforms as received by Grenadier regiments in 1802. The only differences were in the shape of the headdress, lace sewn onto the coats, and the colors for collars, which in the Preobrazhenskii Regiment remained red as before, in the Semenovskii—blue [svetlosinii] with red piping, and in the Izmailovskii—dark green with red piping. in all three regiments the coat’s cuffs, skirt lining, and turnbacks were red (Illus. 1873).

Privates or Grenadiers had sewn-on lace—two rows on each side of the collar and three on each cuff flap. This was of woolen tape [sherstyanyi bason]: in the Preobrazhenskii—red, in the Semenovskii—blue, and in the Izmailovskii—dark green. In each case the tape had yellow stripes and checks. The headdress was a helmet [kaska] that was of blackened and lacquered Russia leather [yuft’], similar to those which were worn by Army infantry and cavalry during the last ten years of EMPRESS CATHERINE II’s reign, but with a higher front plate [nalobnik], namely 6-1/2 vershoks [11-3/8 inches]. On the plate was a two-headed eagle of red brass with the monogram of EMPEROR ALEXANDER I on its breast within a shield. The helmet was adorned with a black hair crest [volosyanyi plyumazh]; a 2-1/4 vershok [4 inch] wide cloth band behind the crown; a 12-1/2 vershok [4-1/8 inch] long cloth tail [lopast’] hanging down the back, with a woolen tassel at the bottom; a black leather lining around the bottom edge; and a likewise black leather chin strap sewn fast to the left side of the helmet but on the right fastened by a black leather button (Illus. 1873 and 1874). The tails were trimmed at the edges and down the middle with gold galloon about 1/4 vershok [3/8 inch] wide. (Note:Later this galloon was retained only by non-commissioned officers, and for privates was replaced by woolen tape. But no information has been found as to exactly when this change took place.) The tails and inner side of the front piece were colored according to the regiment: red for the Preobrazhenskii, blue for the Semenovskii, and white for the Izmailovskii. In addition, there were also the following differences:

a) In the First or Leib-Battalion of the Preobrazhenskii Regiment the plate or eagle on the front piece, the edges applied to the rear piece or band along its whole length, and the small grenades on the sides of the band, over the chin strap, were all of gilded brass [zolochenaya latun’], and the tail’s tassel was white (Illus. 1875a).
b) In the Second Battalion of this regiment the eagle on the front piece and the grenades on the band were gilt [vyzolochennyi], while the band was trimmed with red cloth and the same gold galloon on the edges as was sewn onto the tail; the tassel on the tail was dark blue (Illus. 1875b).
c) In the Third Battalion of the regiment the eagle on the front piece and the grenades on the band were brass [mednyi] without any gilding; the band was the same as for the Second Battalion; yellow tassel (Illus. 1875c).
d) In the Fourth Battalion—eagle, grenades, and back piece the same as in the Third; red tassel (Illus. 1875d).
e) In the First or Leib-Battalion of the Semenovskii Regiment the eagle on the front piece and the brass and grenades on the band were gilded; white tassel (Illus. 1875e).
f) In the Second Battalion of the regiment—brass eagle and grenades, without gilding; band trimmed with blue cloth and gold galloon at the edges; dark-blue tassel (Illus. 1875f)
g) In the Third Battalion—eagle, grenades, and band the same as in the Second Battalion; red tassel (Illus. 1875g).
h) In the First or Leib-Battalion of the Izmailovskii Regiment—eagle, brass on the band, and grenades all gilded; white tassel (Illus. 1875h).
i) In the Second Battalion of the regiment—eagle and grenades without gilding; band trimmed with white cloth, with gold galloon at the edges; dark-blue tassel (Illus. 1875i).
k) In the Third Battalion—eagle, grenades, and band the same as in the Second Battalion; red tassel (Illus. 1875k).

(Note: up to the confirmation of the aforementioned table of 29 December 1802, Guards heavy infantry regiments wore helmets with a two-headed eagle that had in the shield a depiction of St. George the Bearer of Victory instead of a monogram. Even earlier the helmets had a plate covering the entire front piece, of the same form and size as introduced at the beginning of EMPEROR ALEXANDER I’s reign for grenadier caps in the Army. But both of these patterns existed for only a short time and were not confirmed. The present description of helmets is in all respects for that pattern introduced by the HIGHEST Confirmed table of 29 December 1802.)

In all these battalions privates had only one shoulder strap on both the tailcoat and the greatcoat, on the left shoulder in the same color as the collar, i.e. red in the Preobrazhenskii Regiment, blue in the Semenovskii, and dark green with red piping in the Izmailovskii. Other uniform items such as pants, boots, neckcloths, forage caps, warm coats, swords (with short-sword blades), sword belts, sword knots, muskets, pouches, knapsacks, and canteens were defined just as for Grenadier regiments.

Non-commissioned officers were uniformed similarly to privates but without shoulder straps; gold galloon (wider than the Army pattern and with a different tracery design) on the collar and cuffs; white plume with yellow and black at the top, of small cock feathers, fixed behind the helmet band on the left side (Illus. 1876) tassel on the helmet’s cloth tail in three colors—white, black, and orange, and with the same ring [trinchik] as on the sword knot. Like Army non-commissioned officers, they were prescribed gloves with gauntlet cuffs, and canes. In each company four non-commissioned officers had rifled muskets [vintoval’nyya ruzh’ya] and the same front pouches [podsumki] as in Army Grenadier battalions (Illus. 1876). Four others (including the first sergeant [fel’dfebel’] and supply sergeant [kaptenarmus] had the same halberds as in Army Fusilier and Musketeer battalions; in the first or Chef’s battalion of the Preobrazhenskii Regiment with coffee-colored poles, and in the other companies with yellow; in the Semenovskii with black, and in the Izmailovskii with white (Illus. 1877 and 1878). The remaining two non-commissioned officers—an officer candidate and distinguished officer candidate [podpraporshchik i portupei-praporshchik] did not have halberds or muskets.

Company drummers had a coat without shoulder straps, closed over the chest with small hooks; with red cloth swallows’ wings at the shoulder and sewn-on tape of the same pattern as privates and non-commissioned officers of the Preobrazhenskii Regiment had on collars and cuff flaps; in the Preobrazhenskii Regiment this same tape was used to trim drum belts (Illus. 1879), but in the other two regiments these had no tape. For all three regiments drums were prescribed as for Grenadier regiments, and the color of the drumsticks—the same as the non-commissioned officers’ halberd shafts (Illus. 1879).

Fifers had the same uniform clothing as company drummers. In the Preobrazhenskii Regiment there was tape on the drum belts, and none in the other regiments (Illus. 1880).

Battalion and regimental drummers, as well as musicians, with the same uniforms as company drummers and fifers, were distinguished from them by gold galloon on the collar and cuffs, and also by having tape along all coat seams, the skirts, and turnbacks, and in seven rows on the sleeves instead of six. As holders of non-commissioned rank, they were authorized the same helmet crests, tassels and tails, sword knots, gloves, and canes as the other non-commissioned officers above, except that the first items, i.e. crests, were of red hair instead of black (Illus. 1881).

Company and field-grade officers and Generals had coats with collars and cuffs of the same colors as for lower ranks, with a gold aiguilette on the right shoulder and gold embroidery on collar and cuff flaps of the same tracery design as established towards the end of EMPEROR PAUL I’s reign. Their other uniform items and weapons were the same as for officers in Grenadier and Musketeer regiments, and their spontoon poles were the same color as halberd poles (Illus. 1882, 1883, and 1884).

In regard to uniforms for noncombatant ranks, the same regulations were in force as in the Army infantry, i.e. they were prescribed frock coats with collars of the same color as for combatants, and three-cornered hats.

29 June 1803 – General and field and company-grade officers were ordered to have shabracks and pistol carriers [shabraki i chushki] of the pattern established on this day for Grenadier and Musketeer regiments, and also trimmed with gold galloon. But instead of being dark green, they were red, with silver stars and a colored space between the galloon according to the regiment: green in the Preobrazhenskii, blue in the Semenovskii, and white in the Izmailovskii (Illlus. 1885) (5).

19 October 1803 – Instead of just one, privates were ordered to have two shoulder straps (6).

19 October 1803 – For everyday duties and when on maneuvers, combatant lower ranks were ordered to wear cloth caps [shapki] instead of helmets, of the pattern established on 13 February 1803 for Grenadier regiments but with the addition of a lacquered leather ring or hoop around the top edge, of the width and color of the tape sewn on coats in the Life-Guards Preobrazhenskii Regiment (Illus. 1886). As for Army Grenadiers, the plumes on these caps were black for privates (Illus. 1886); for non-commissioned officers—black with a white top with an orange stripe (Illus. 1886); for company drummers and fifers—red (Illus. 1887); for battalion and regimental drummers and for musicians—red with a white top with an orange stripe (Illus. 1888). For privates tufts, or pompons, were according to the battalion: in the 1st—white outer edge, green center; 2nd—green outer edge, yellow center; 3rd red outer edge, yellow center; 4th, in the Preobrazhenskii Regiment—sky-blue outer edge, white center. For all non-commissioned officers the pompons had two quarters in white and two in white with black and orange (7). Noncombatant ranks had the same caps but without plumes (8). At this same time field and company-grade officers began to wear hats with a buttonhole loop of narrow gold galloon instead of being embroidered, with a tall plume as described above regarding uniforms for Grenadier regiments (9).

15 March 1805 – Helmets, which had been retained only for ceremonial days and parades, were completely abolished (10).
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  #2275  
Old 06 Sep 11, 17:01
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Russian Guard 1802-05

Further illustrations - unfortunately illustration 1876 Non-Commissioned Officers. L.-Gds. Preobrazhenskii Regiment, 1802-1805. is not on the website.
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  #2276  
Old 06 Sep 11, 17:04
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Russian Guard Infantry

Last batch
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  #2277  
Old 07 Sep 11, 10:21
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Thank You very muck, Prinz Essling!
Nice to know something new!

Cheers!
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  #2278  
Old 20 Sep 11, 08:55
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5ème Hussard 1809 officer:

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  #2279  
Old 20 Sep 11, 17:53
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That horse does not look happy.

Sincerely,
M
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Old 20 Sep 11, 21:47
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That horse does not look happy.

Sincerely,
M
It probably lost its blow-tickler in the long grass

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