October 23 70th Anniversary Of El Alamein

[Dan M]

Originally Posted by redcoat

They weren't renamed they were amalgamated, which is British army speak for disbanded and the remnants joined to another regiment, as part of the massive reduction in size the British army went through in the late 50's and 60's.

Red, sorry but I'm afraid I will respectfully have to disagree with you on this one. The Ox & Bucks were renamed 1st Green Jackets (43rd and 52nd) in 1958 after being transferred to the Green Jacket Brigade. It remained a single battalion regiment until the formation in 1966 of the Royal Green Jackets, one of the new large regiments. It was never disbanded.

Originally Posted by redcoat

The Ox and Bucks were a light regiment along with the the Green Jacket's, the fact their history and deployment was different was of no interest to the accountants.

No disagreement there. Accountants, or bean counters as they are known over here, do not have any of the milk of human kindness in their souls. People mean nothing when they are 'making things better.' But let us not digress there.

Cheers,
Dan.

[Dan M]

Originally Posted by lcm1

Also the RM no longer having infantry battalions is rather unfortunate as well.The theory that every man has got to be a commando is very short sighted,they are losing a lot of good men nowadays because the course is so rigorous that men that would make great infantry are out,with no alternative and the course for the infantry was only one step down from the commando course.

El, wasn't taking on the commando role the only reason the Corps was retained after the Second World War? Without this role, and with the loss of the need for ship's detachments on the larger warships, wouldn't they have become redundant? I had always heard that the commandos were the only thing that kept the RM afloat after the war.

Cheers,
Dan.

[RichardS]

Originally Posted by Dan M

El, wasn't taking on the commando role the only reason the Corps was retained after the Second World War? Without this role, and with the loss of the need for ship's detachments on the larger warships, wouldn't they have become redundant? I had always heard that the commandos were the only thing that kept the RM afloat after the war.

Cheers,
Dan.

There will always be a need for Marines. But I fear the modern RMs are a wee bit too specialized. You have the SBS and the Commachio Company, but all Marines a commando? I can understand all marines a rifleman first (USMC) because you need more guns on the line? Comb out the support units. But for the RM commandos? I'm not sure the logistic support is robust enough nor is their enough at the pointy end either. But really is this because of penny pinching or deciding that a commando force should be light?

Royal Marines (commando or not!)

Edit: Current RM OOB. http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/The-Flee...mmando-Brigade

[McMax]

Originally Posted by redcoat

The Von is correct (surprised myself on writing these words )
Royal Marines were sent into the rigging to shot at officers and other useful targets, but they didn't try to hide as it would have been considered ungentlemanly, they were sharpshooters not snipers.

I read some where that Lord Nelson didn't let the Marines on the fighting tops because of the danger of fire from black power weapons among all the sails and rigging. True on not?

[lcm1]

Originally Posted by Dan M

El, wasn't taking on the commando role the only reason the Corps was retained after the Second World War? Without this role, and with the loss of the need for ship's detachments on the larger warships, wouldn't they have become redundant? I had always heard that the commandos were the only thing that kept the RM afloat after the war.

Cheers,
Dan.

Yes Desperate exactly, that was the point I was making! The RM light infantry were in existance for a long time,with a training second to none and serving all over the world , they did not become redundant,they were MADE redundant!! Of course the RM commando was the only thing that kept the corps afloat,because they were the only bloody thing left after the axemen moved in!!~ lcm1

[lcm1]

Originally Posted by RichardS

There will always be a need for Marines. But I fear the modern RMs are a wee bit too specialized. You have the SBS and the Commachio Company, but all Marines a commando? I can understand all marines a rifleman first (USMC) because you need more guns on the line? Comb out the support units. But for the RM commandos? I'm not sure the logistic support is robust enough nor is their enough at the pointy end either. But really is this because of penny pinching or deciding that a commando force should be light?

Royal Marines (commando or not!)

Edit: Current RM OOB. http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/The-Flee...mmando-Brigade

Read my reply to Desperate RS,cheers, lcm!

[broderickwells]

Originally Posted by Dan M

Seeing as how this topic has metamorphosed from the Victory at Alamein (kudos to the British Army, by the way) to a discussion of... well... a variety of subjects, including British light infantry, I would like to butt in with a question that's been much on my mind for a long time. And where else am I going to get the combined knowledge of Von, Brod, redcoat, and that Commando guy, together in one place again? (It's almost like having a conversation with Lodestar, isn't it? But I digress.)

Way back in 1958 the British Army for some reason renamed the two Rifle regiments and the Ox and Bucks as 'Green Jackets.' Now it's obvious why the Rifle regiments were so named but I've always wondered; why the Ox and Bucks? Were they chosen because somebody from the Light Infantry Brigade had to go to the Green Jacket Brigade or did the Regiment (or one of its two antecedents) wear green jackets as well back in the day? It's always been my understanding that Light Infantry regiments wore red, had a the bugle for a cap badge, and (until 1968) eschewed having Colours.

Anything I can learn about the seven light infantry regiments in the British Army is more than appreciated. I also heard that one of the administrative issues that had to be dealt with when the Light Infantry was created as a large regiment in 1968 was adopting a commonality of rifle drill throughout the battalions. Apparently rifle drill in each of the regiments was unique to them, and light infantry drill had more 'swinging of the rifle' than regiments of the line.

And did light infantry always wear a green beret or is that a recent adoption?

Cheers,
Dan.

It appears to be because the "Rifles" and the "Ox and Bucks" were both basically light infantry, the former being issued with rifles while the latter had to do with muskets (maybe) due to a shortage of rifles when they converted to light infantry during the Napoleonic war period. As for Colours, the wiki article on the 52nd (Oxfordshire Regiment) is a little ambiguous - they didn't carry Colours but someone is credited with carrying their Colours at Waterloo - go figure . Maybe they had them but didn't take them into battle.

[broderickwells]

Originally Posted by redcoat

The Von is correct (surprised myself on writing these words )
Royal Marines were sent into the rigging to shot at officers and other useful targets, but they didn't try to hide as it would have been considered ungentlemanly, they were sharpshooters not snipers.

Mortified I am. Mortified. I unreservedly apologise to the Von and lcm1 for casting their words of wisdom aside.

[broderickwells]

Originally Posted by Von Richter

Seen Been's from Sheffield, same place the Schloss Von Richter's located, sadly he's a piggy fan but nobody's perfect!
The 52nd. and 43rd. Light Infantry could shoot marginally better than their mates in the line as their muskets had a sight on it. You are now permitted a grovelling apology for doubting both my good self and lcm1 (who was at Trafalgar when nowt burra lad!) they called the 'crow's nest' the 'fighting tops' on a warship...

Attachment 50743

http://www.thedearsurprise.com/?p=1726

WTF is a piggy fan? BTW, prefer Kazan Rubies meself.

[lcm1]

Originally Posted by broderickwells

Mortified I am. Mortified. I unreservedly apologise to the Von and lcm1 for casting their words of wisdom aside.

All is forgiven Brod, lcm1

[Von Richter]

Originally Posted by broderickwells

WTF is a piggy fan? BTW, prefer Kazan Rubies meself.

A piggy fan is a supporter of Sheffield United football team, a term of less than endearment, given 'em by fans of Sheffield Wednesday football team. Sharpey has got a very prominent tattoo to his favoured team, which has to be camouflaged by a make up lady, when he gets his kit off... simple innit!?

[Von Richter]

Originally Posted by broderickwells

Mortified I am. Mortified. I unreservedly apologise to the Von and lcm1 for casting their words of wisdom aside.

By the cringe, stop snivelling that man. The Von and lcm1 were bound to get summat right once... if only by the law of averages!

[lcm1]

Originally Posted by Von Richter

By the cringe, stop snivelling that man. The Von and lcm1 were bound to get summat right once... if only by the law of averages!

Cheers ...........Hic! Pardon,not very often right according to the guys on here. lcm1