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American Age of Discovery, Colonization, Revolution, & Expansion Military history of North America. .

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  #16  
Old 25 Nov 16, 09:33
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Nice info Messena. Ive not heard that obscure piece of trivia befoe
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Old 25 Nov 16, 09:34
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In reality there were more failed expeditions than successful ones, and some horrific disasters - we tend to hear only about the successes. The Pánfilo de Narváez expedition to conquer Florida only had four survivors. Even the successful ones where not as brilliant as sometime presented
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Old 25 Nov 16, 10:09
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In reality there were more failed expeditions than successful ones, and some horrific disasters - we tend to hear only about the successes. The Pánfilo de Narváez expedition to conquer Florida only had four survivors. Even the successful ones where not as brilliant as sometime presented
Oh yeah, tons of failed expeditions. At every step the odds against the Conquistadors were very long. That any of their expeditions succeeded at all was truly remarkable. And it's that defiance of the odds that's always captured my attention: by rights all of their operations should have failed before launch. Say what you want about their morality and capacity to plan major operations, they had stones down to their ankles. Can't help but admire that.
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  #19  
Old 25 Nov 16, 10:12
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ahreed slick, they are admirable for their tenacity and daring.

Not to mention success against long odds.
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  #20  
Old 25 Nov 16, 11:11
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In general they came from desperately poor areas of Spain etc where life was hard and the old phrase "life's a bitch and then you die" was very true and ordinarily men had little hope. The expeditions offered a chance of escape - if you survived. The same was true of the maritime explorations of the period with their very low survival rates. The odds were poorer than people today would accept but the rewards promised (but not always delivered) for survivors were very high. The stake for entering the game was their life but for some this may not have seemed that valuable
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Old 25 Nov 16, 17:09
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Extremadura

The earlier mentioned region 'Extremadura', where so many conquistadors hailed from, can be losely translated as 'extremely hard'.
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Old 25 Nov 16, 17:32
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Originally Posted by Massena View Post
Not only that, but they were the best troops in Europe during the period.

They also contributed to the US victory in the War of the Revolution. The Spanish commander, Galvez, did quite well against the British.
That would have been Bernardo de Galvez that Galveston in Texas is named after, as I suddenly realised.
More a heir to the tradition than a conquistador but I get the gist.
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  #23  
Old 25 Nov 16, 17:57
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Nice info Messena. Ive not heard that obscure piece of trivia befoe
Spain's contribution to the American War of Independence was as important if not more so than France, but because it was indirect, mostly financial and supplies, and kept secret at the time and because of the language barrier and American guilty feeling about the war of aggression in 1898 it has been silenced by American historiography. On the other hand, it is well known to Spanish historians, at least naval ones. The Spanish Armada was the forgotten factor that decided the war.

The USA lost about 8.000 killed in battles, for a comparison of the war effort, Spain lost 5,000 in sea battles and lost more than 30 ships. There is a list of ships and how many guns they had in this article

http://abcblogs.abc.es/espejo-de-nav...stados-unidos/

Quick summary

http://teachinghistory.org/history-c...istorian/22894

Wiki has a good overview

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain_...olutionary_War

And the must read book is this one.

https://www.amazon.com/Spain-Indepen.../dp/082632794X
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  #24  
Old 26 Nov 16, 04:01
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Gorgeous and useful contribution von J.
In lieu of rep.
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  #25  
Old 26 Nov 16, 05:08
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i cannot rep the same post twice, I wish I could here...
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  #26  
Old 30 Nov 16, 17:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Sennef View Post
Triggered by the thread's theme and of women conquistadors in particular I did some research and came across this link in which Inés Suárez also features:

http://someinterestingfacts.net/span...stadors-women/
That is an interesting link. I'm in the process of acquiring more information on Maria Estrada...one of the ladies featured on your link. It has been said Maria was herself a brave fighter...charging at the enemy while proclaiming the term Santiago! as a means of homage to Saint James.

1519: María de Estrada (perhaps identical with María/Marina de la Caballería) was a woman to arrive in Mexico with the expedition of Hernán Cortés as well as the one of the very few women of European descent to take part in and survive the Spanish conquest of Mexico. She was a very bold and warlike woman who "was as good a warrior as any man". She is mentioned as surviving the Noche Triste as well as the Battle of Otumba. She is described as being instrumental in the defeat of the Nahua Indians of Hueyapan, charging head first and screaming "Santiago!"

http://www.fscclub.com/history/armed3-e.shtml

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  #27  
Old 30 Nov 16, 21:27
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Wow...what a woman..."charging.....and screaming "Santiago!"

Looks like a goodly likeness of her as well, just guessing mind.

Wonder whether this aristocratic spanish woman has other portraits in the old country? She's obviously a woman of monetary worth to be mounted on a horse at all! And just look at how sympathetically her horse has been drawn, with detail of its maine, and a very charcter-filled eye. These horses must have been some of the most pampered examples of horseflesh in a country renowned for the excellence of its horses going way back into its time as a part of the Carthiginian empire. Hannibal is said to have crossed tha alps on a Spanish mount.

This is turning into one great post.....thanks to the Spaniards for their contributions...

Last edited by Drusus Nero; 30 Nov 16 at 21:32..
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Old 01 Dec 16, 09:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drusus Nero View Post
Wow...what a woman..."charging.....and screaming "Santiago!"

Looks like a goodly likeness of her as well, just guessing mind.

Wonder whether this aristocratic spanish woman has other portraits in the old country? She's obviously a woman of monetary worth to be mounted on a horse at all! And just look at how sympathetically her horse has been drawn, with detail of its maine, and a very charcter-filled eye. These horses must have been some of the most pampered examples of horseflesh in a country renowned for the excellence of its horses going way back into its time as a part of the Carthiginian empire. Hannibal is said to have crossed tha alps on a Spanish mount.

This is turning into one great post.....thanks to the Spaniards for their contributions...
Thanks and let me also say thank you and thanks to all who have contributed to the thread topic for their great contributions. von Junzt seems to be quite knowledgeable on Spanish history.
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  #29  
Old 01 Dec 16, 10:33
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And Drusnus, I am unsure of the origins of that striking portrait of what has been said to be María de Estrada. Now that same image we see above can also be seen on the front cover of the fiction María de Estrada: gypsy conquistadora.


https://www.amazon.com/Mar%C3%ADa-Es.../dp/189127001X

Here is what I believe to be the same book, different cover,


images hosting



Now that book, again said to be fiction...Tells that

The story of the most famous woman in Spain's colonial history in Mexico is given fresh treatment in this fictionalized biography that composes a potential narrative from the disputed accounts of María de Estrada's life. María was the grandchild of a rabbi and physician and who trained with Gypsies in swordplay and horsemanship. After escaping a death sentence imposed by the Spanish Inquisition, María arrived in the New World where she became a warrior fighting alongside Cortés in Spain's military conquest. Once she settled in the area, however, she saw reasons to defend Mexico's indigenous population.


Yet this account discusses that Maria fought valiantly with the Conquistadors...there is nothing there about Maria changing sides though.


https://books.google.com/books?id=_5...ndians&f=false

Wikipedia suggests that

According to a widely accepted identification,[3] María joined an early expedition to the Gulf of Darién, perhaps accompanying her brother or an unrecorded husband.[4] Their attempt to establish a settlement was a failure, and on the return journey to Santo Domingo, her vessel was shipwrecked on the island of Cuba.

At first, the locals treated the marooned Spanish crew well, helping them to travel along the coast; but at the place later known as Matanzas, the castaways were betrayed and massacred. The woman identified as Maria de Estrada was one of a handful of survivors, taken captive by one of the local chiefs who had led the attack.

For several years, she lived among the natives, one of the first Europeans to become acculturated to indigenous life in the Americas.[5] In 1513, she was released thanks to the arrival of conquistadors on the island. Soon afterwards, she married one of these Spanish colonists, named Pedro Sánchez Farfán.


The same wiki article goes on to suggest that some years after being captured by the Indians...that Maria was involved in fighting Indians of Hueyapan. Here it is said that Maria while valiantly charging the Indians shouted Santiago!


Most of the early sources refer to María de Estrada in general terms among the small number of women who accompanied the army at this time, but two writers of the later sixteenth century single her out as a soldier. The Tlaxcallan chronicler Diego Muñoz Camargo wrote that she fought her way out of the city as a rodelero during the battle, proving herself "as good a warrior as any man", and that she participated in the decisive charge of armored cavalry at the Battle of Otumba. The Dominican historian Diego Durán claims that she subsequently led a force of conquistadors into the area around Popocatépetl, where, she defeated the Nahua Indians of Hueyapan, charging head first and screaming "Santiago!"

If anyone could verify or disprove that information it would be appreciated. One thing is certain, this Maria de Estrade was one tough lady. Regardless of the accuracy of Marias involvement in battle...this fact that Maria was brave enough to get on a ship and sail across an entire ocean to a "New World" is in and of itself quite the feat.
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Old 02 Dec 16, 10:09
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Nieta de un médico rabino, tras la expulsión de los judíos por los Reyes Católicos, es adoptada por unos gitanos con los que aprende la forja del acero, en Toledo, y el manejo de la espada.

Roughly translates into.


Granddaughter of a rabbi doctor, after the expulsion of the Jews by the Catholic Monarchs, is adopted by gypsies with learning forging steel, in Toledo, and swordsmanship.



http://fabricadelamemoria.com/mujere...ria-de-estrada

This might just be a story for the ages wrt Maria de Estrada. I have above a source in Spanish that suggests Maria was a Jew who sought a better life in the New world. Persecuted in Spain...Maria would find greatness in the new world fighting alongside her fellow Spaniards. I have also posted stories about Muslims who joined the Conquistadors in route to the new world. Perhaps there is something greater going on here...I have a theory that a #(not all) of Conquistadors went to the new world to create a tolerant, peace loving righteous Christian society. And I have shown statements from Conquistadors which preach tolerance. Maria might not be one of the most well known figures of history...but certainly history has and will surely continue to remember this valiant woman Maria.


jpg images


^Canvas of Tlaxcala (1552) marked with a circle María Estrada, female soldier within the troops of Hernán Cortés
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