HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Forum Resources > Armchair Attacks! > Greatest/Best Tank of WW2

Notices and Announcements

Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 An archive of the WWII Forum's Greatest/Best Tank mini-contest.

View Poll Results: Which of these tanks had the best mobility?
Matilda II 0 0%
Crusader 0 0%
Churchill 8 18.60%
Valentine 2 4.65%
Cromwell 0 0%
Somua S-35 0 0%
Char B-1 bis 0 0%
PzKpfw 38(t) 0 0%
PzKpfw III 1 2.33%
PzKpfw IV (short & long guns combined) 0 0%
Tiger I 1 2.33%
Panther 1 2.33%
Tiger II 0 0%
M 13-40/14-41/15-42 0 0%
Type 97 Chi-Ha 0 0%
BT-5/7 5 11.63%
T-34 (76 and 85 combined) 19 44.19%
KV-1 0 0%
IS-2 0 0%
M3 Medium 0 0%
M4 Medium (all versions combined) 6 13.95%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 22 Apr 12, 13:33
panther3485's Avatar
panther3485 panther3485 is offline
ACG Forums - Field Marshal
Australia
Distinguished Service Award - 2nd Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 
Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls 
Model Forum Group Build (Multiple) Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Paul
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 29,274
panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Greatest/Best Tank - Mobility

Tips for Participants

If you have not already done so, for an outline explanation of what is going on and how the polling and scoring processes will work please consult the Master Thread (Mega-Poll - Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 - Master Thread) and read the first three posts I have placed there, before beginning your participation in the 12 polls:


After you've read those first three posts (or if you've already done so), you are ready to start on the 12 poll threads.

When you enter the poll threads, don't forget to read the Criteria Information (post #2 on each thread) for information on what's covered by that particular criterion; and precise details you'll need to register your score for all 21 of the tanks.
__________________
"England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

Last edited by panther3485; 22 Apr 12 at 13:42..
Reply With Quote
Facebook Connect and Magazine Promotions

World War II Magazine
$26.95

Armchair General Magazine
$26.95
Military History Magazine
$26.95
  #2  
Old 22 Apr 12, 13:42
panther3485's Avatar
panther3485 panther3485 is offline
ACG Forums - Field Marshal
Australia
Distinguished Service Award - 2nd Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 
Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls 
Model Forum Group Build (Multiple) Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Paul
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 29,274
panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Criteria Information



Welcome to the Mobility Poll; one of twelve polls where you will have the opportunity to help decide the greatest/best tank of WW2, as determined by our ACG membership.
You are also invited to discuss/debate the mobility attributes of all 21 tanks in this particular thread.


2. Mobility (under own power) (max 40 points)

This criterion refers to the mobility of the tank when travelling under its own power only, and is therefore concentrating mainly on tactical and operational mobility rather than strategic mobility. It arguably may - perhaps just occasionally - stray slightly over the boundary into the realms of strategic mobility in a few cases where tanks travel very long distances entirely on their own tracks in the course of a campaign. However, in the broader sense strategic mobility per se is generally where the tank is being transported. That is covered under criterion #11, Transportability & deployment.

Factors heavily influencing tactical and/or operational mobility can include, but are not necessarily exclusive to, the following:

• Speed under varying conditions (on and off road)
• Range under varying conditions (on and off road)
• Ability to negotiate rough terrain, obstacles and gradients
• Ability to cross soft ground
• Steering and agility
• Reliability & mechanical stamina


All Participants

If you have not already done so, please vote for the one tank that you believe measures up best against this criterion.

Level 2 Participants Only

Brackets

Please rate the remaining 20 tanks by placing each of them into one of the brackets below:

In your opinion, was the mobility of the tank ...

Excellent (36)
Good (24)
OK (12)
Poor (0)
__________________
"England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

Last edited by panther3485; 27 Apr 12 at 12:09..
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 23 Apr 12, 18:58
Dashy's Avatar
Dashy Dashy is offline
General
Pirate
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Scott Daly
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Salisbury, At least in Spirit
Posts: 5,056
Dashy is simply cracking [600]
Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600] Dashy is simply cracking [600]
The Churchill is an easy first place for me. It was not the fastest, but it could go places other tanks couldn't and showed itself capable of keeping up with strategic and tactical advances.

As for the rest ...

Excellent- T 34, Sherman
the two mainstays of the allies were fast and had excellent battlefield mobility.

Good- Panzer IV, Panzer III, IS-2, Cromwell

The Panzer IV and III sustained the initial German advances, in the early stages of the war, and used their then superior mobility to outmanoeuvre the slower British and French heavies. The IS-2 had excellent mobility for a tank of it's class, reaching speeds some mediums would envy. The Cromwell had great mobility for a late war tank, though not quite as good IMO as the Sherman or T-34.

Could you Arbitrate the rest please Panther? please and thankyou.
__________________
For the Space Queen!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 23 Apr 12, 19:19
Nick the Noodle's Avatar
Nick the Noodle Nick the Noodle is offline
General of the Forums
Wales
Distinguished Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls SPQR Campaign Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
CWiE 1939-45 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Tin Pot Noodle
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Land of the Red Dragon
Posts: 17,864
Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Churchills greatest strength, and what actually kept it from being axed in 43. It's easy to place armour on a tank. Ask the Soviets with their KV-1C's or KV-2's. Mobility and armour is rare.

The Churchill was a gamechanger due to its ability to cross bad ground, eg mud and hills. Churchill units did not need the Rhino upgrade to get through the Boccage either. It also had marathon runner legs. In the run up to Prokhorovka, Churchills had less than 5% breakdowns after travelling 100's of Km's. T-70's and T-34's lost 42-3% each of their number doing the same, albeit much of that was down to enemy airstrikes. Operationally they were close to M4's, and far superior tactically.

Excellent (36) - M4, T-34, Cromwell, PzKpfw 38(t)
Good (24) - Pz III and IV, BT-5/7
OK (12) - IS-2, Valentine, Somua S-35, Char B-1 bis, Tiger I, Panther, M 13-40/14-41/15-42, Type 97 Chi-Ha, M3 Medium, IS-2
Poor (0) - Tiger 2, Crusader, Matilda 2, KV-1
__________________
How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 25 Apr 12, 02:08
broderickwells's Avatar
broderickwells broderickwells is offline
General of the Forums
France
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Auckland
Posts: 10,621
broderickwells has achieved enlightenment [1200+] broderickwells has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
broderickwells has achieved enlightenment [1200+] broderickwells has achieved enlightenment [1200+] broderickwells has achieved enlightenment [1200+] broderickwells has achieved enlightenment [1200+] broderickwells has achieved enlightenment [1200+] broderickwells has achieved enlightenment [1200+] broderickwells has achieved enlightenment [1200+] broderickwells has achieved enlightenment [1200+] broderickwells has achieved enlightenment [1200+] broderickwells has achieved enlightenment [1200+] broderickwells has achieved enlightenment [1200+] broderickwells has achieved enlightenment [1200+] broderickwells has achieved enlightenment [1200+] broderickwells has achieved enlightenment [1200+] broderickwells has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Benchmark: T-34 (76 and 85 combined)

Excellent: M4 Medium (all versions combined), Churchill

Good: Panther, PzKpfw III, PzKpfw IV (short & long guns combined), PzKpfw 38(t), Valentine, BT-5/7, M3 Medium, Cromwell, Somua S-35, M 13-40/14-41/15-42, Crusader, Type 97 Chi-Ha

OK: KV-1, Tiger I, Matilda II, Char B-1 bis, IS-2,

Poor: Tiger II,

The T-34 could operate on just about any terrain, had a great turn of speed, and was untroubled by adverse weather.

The two runners up, M4 medium and Churchill, were penalised for the inability to operate on softer ground/snow or weight, which meant finding a stronger bridge.

The OK mob were either too heavy or had low speed nobbling them. The Tiger II was a slow fat b*st*rd.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 25 Apr 12, 02:40
Nick the Noodle's Avatar
Nick the Noodle Nick the Noodle is offline
General of the Forums
Wales
Distinguished Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls SPQR Campaign Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
CWiE 1939-45 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Tin Pot Noodle
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Land of the Red Dragon
Posts: 17,864
Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by broderickwells View Post
Benchmark: T-34 (76 and 85 combined)

Excellent: M4 Medium (all versions combined), Churchill

Good: Panther, PzKpfw III, PzKpfw IV (short & long guns combined), PzKpfw 38(t), Valentine, BT-5/7, M3 Medium, Cromwell, Somua S-35, M 13-40/14-41/15-42, Crusader, Type 97 Chi-Ha

OK: KV-1, Tiger I, Matilda II, Char B-1 bis, IS-2,

Poor: Tiger II,

The T-34 could operate on just about any terrain, had a great turn of speed, and was untroubled by adverse weather.

The two runners up, M4 medium and Churchill, were penalised for the inability to operate on softer ground/snow or weight, which meant finding a stronger bridge.

The OK mob were either too heavy or had low speed nobbling them. The Tiger II was a slow fat b*st*rd.
Churchills could carry their own bridges, or even be one .





__________________
How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 25 Apr 12, 09:55
panther3485's Avatar
panther3485 panther3485 is offline
ACG Forums - Field Marshal
Australia
Distinguished Service Award - 2nd Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 
Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls 
Model Forum Group Build (Multiple) Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Paul
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 29,274
panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashy View Post
The Churchill is an easy first place for me. It was not the fastest, but it could go places other tanks couldn't and showed itself capable of keeping up with strategic and tactical advances.

As for the rest ...

Excellent- T 34, Sherman
the two mainstays of the allies were fast and had excellent battlefield mobility.

Good- Panzer IV, Panzer III, IS-2, Cromwell

The Panzer IV and III sustained the initial German advances, in the early stages of the war, and used their then superior mobility to outmanoeuvre the slower British and French heavies. The IS-2 had excellent mobility for a tank of it's class, reaching speeds some mediums would envy. The Cromwell had great mobility for a late war tank, though not quite as good IMO as the Sherman or T-34.

Could you Arbitrate the rest please Panther? please and thankyou.
Thanks Scott.

The remaining tanks will receive the default 1/2 points scores*.


*Edit: The method of 'default' scoring for unplaced tanks has since been amended. These tanks will now be given an average of the scores derived from those members who have voted for them or placed them. If anyone is unsure how this works or would like clarification, please do not hesitate to ask me.
__________________
"England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

Last edited by panther3485; 28 Jul 12 at 12:06..
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 25 Apr 12, 10:12
panther3485's Avatar
panther3485 panther3485 is offline
ACG Forums - Field Marshal
Australia
Distinguished Service Award - 2nd Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 
Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls 
Model Forum Group Build (Multiple) Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Paul
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 29,274
panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
Churchills greatest strength, and what actually kept it from being axed in 43. It's easy to place armour on a tank. Ask the Soviets with their KV-1C's or KV-2's. Mobility and armour is rare.

The Churchill was a gamechanger due to its ability to cross bad ground, eg mud and hills. Churchill units did not need the Rhino upgrade to get through the Boccage either. It also had marathon runner legs. In the run up to Prokhorovka, Churchills had less than 5% breakdowns after travelling 100's of Km's. T-70's and T-34's lost 42-3% each of their number doing the same, albeit much of that was down to enemy airstrikes. Operationally they were close to M4's, and far superior tactically.

Excellent (36) - M4, T-34, Cromwell, PzKpfw 38(t)
Good (24) - Pz III and IV, BT-5/7
OK (12) - IS-2, Valentine, Somua S-35, Char B-1 bis, Tiger I, Panther, M 13-40/14-41/15-42, Type 97 Chi-Ha, M3 Medium, IS-2
Poor (0) - Tiger 2, Crusader, Matilda 2, KV-1
Thanks Nick. All registered.
__________________
"England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

Last edited by panther3485; 25 Apr 12 at 10:18..
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 25 Apr 12, 10:16
panther3485's Avatar
panther3485 panther3485 is offline
ACG Forums - Field Marshal
Australia
Distinguished Service Award - 2nd Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 
Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls 
Model Forum Group Build (Multiple) Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Paul
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 29,274
panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by broderickwells View Post
Benchmark: T-34 (76 and 85 combined)

Excellent: M4 Medium (all versions combined), Churchill

Good: Panther, PzKpfw III, PzKpfw IV (short & long guns combined), PzKpfw 38(t), Valentine, BT-5/7, M3 Medium, Cromwell, Somua S-35, M 13-40/14-41/15-42, Crusader, Type 97 Chi-Ha

OK: KV-1, Tiger I, Matilda II, Char B-1 bis, IS-2,

Poor: Tiger II,

The T-34 could operate on just about any terrain, had a great turn of speed, and was untroubled by adverse weather.

The two runners up, M4 medium and Churchill, were penalised for the inability to operate on softer ground/snow or weight, which meant finding a stronger bridge.

The OK mob were either too heavy or had low speed nobbling them. The Tiger II was a slow fat b*st*rd.
Thanks brod. All on the sheet now.
__________________
"England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 27 Apr 12, 04:28
wellsfargo's Avatar
wellsfargo wellsfargo is offline
Captain
Australia
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Martin Wells
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alcomie/Tas
Posts: 825
wellsfargo is on the path to success [1-99] wellsfargo is on the path to success [1-99] wellsfargo is on the path to success [1-99] wellsfargo is on the path to success [1-99] wellsfargo is on the path to success [1-99] wellsfargo is on the path to success [1-99] wellsfargo is on the path to success [1-99]
2 Mobility (40) T-34

Excellent (36) M4 Churchill Panther Cromwell Matilda II Tiger I PzKpfw IV

Good (24) Tiger II PzKpfw III Crusader IS-2 M3 KV-1

OK (12) Valentine PzKpfw 38T BT 5/7

Poor (0) M13-14 Char B-1 Somua S-35 Type 97


“Attack with aggression, but always have a plan of retreat”
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #11  
Old 27 Apr 12, 05:42
panther3485's Avatar
panther3485 panther3485 is offline
ACG Forums - Field Marshal
Australia
Distinguished Service Award - 2nd Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 
Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls 
Model Forum Group Build (Multiple) Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Paul
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 29,274
panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by wellsfargo View Post
2 Mobility (40) T-34

Excellent (36) M4 Churchill Panther Cromwell Matilda II Tiger I PzKpfw IV

Good (24) Tiger II PzKpfw III Crusader IS-2 M3 KV-1

OK (12) Valentine PzKpfw 38T BT 5/7

Poor (0) M13-14 Char B-1 Somua S-35 Type 97


“Attack with aggression, but always have a plan of retreat”
Thanks Martin. Recorded.
__________________
"England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 28 Apr 12, 00:33
smallvillekalel's Avatar
smallvillekalel smallvillekalel is offline
Major
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign CWiE 1939-45 Campaign 
 
Real Name: David M. Fortsch
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Blue Springs, MO
Posts: 954
smallvillekalel is on the path to success [1-99] smallvillekalel is on the path to success [1-99] smallvillekalel is on the path to success [1-99] smallvillekalel is on the path to success [1-99] smallvillekalel is on the path to success [1-99] smallvillekalel is on the path to success [1-99] smallvillekalel is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by broderickwells View Post
Benchmark: T-34 (76 and 85 combined)

Excellent: M4 Medium (all versions combined), Churchill

Good: Panther, PzKpfw III, PzKpfw IV (short & long guns combined), PzKpfw 38(t), Valentine, BT-5/7, M3 Medium, Cromwell, Somua S-35, M 13-40/14-41/15-42, Crusader, Type 97 Chi-Ha

OK: KV-1, Tiger I, Matilda II, Char B-1 bis, IS-2,

Poor: Tiger II,

The T-34 could operate on just about any terrain, had a great turn of speed, and was untroubled by adverse weather.

The two runners up, M4 medium and Churchill, were penalised for the inability to operate on softer ground/snow or weight, which meant finding a stronger bridge.

The OK mob were either too heavy or had low speed nobbling them. The Tiger II was a slow fat b*st*rd.
To defend the King Tiger...The King Matilda(these two tanks remind me of King Hippo, and good for you if you get the reference)was slower and fatter. The Tiger had a lighter footprint and could climb a much steeper grade. Now, if you want to grade the King Tiger low due to her dismal fuel economy and poor range I will be forced to agree with you. But she's only a slow fat bast@rd if the King Matilda is slower and fatter. All in all, a great list. Agree with you 100% on the T-34!
__________________
"In the absence of orders...find something and kill it!" Lt. General Erwin Rommel, 1942
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 28 Apr 12, 00:53
smallvillekalel's Avatar
smallvillekalel smallvillekalel is offline
Major
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign CWiE 1939-45 Campaign 
 
Real Name: David M. Fortsch
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Blue Springs, MO
Posts: 954
smallvillekalel is on the path to success [1-99] smallvillekalel is on the path to success [1-99] smallvillekalel is on the path to success [1-99] smallvillekalel is on the path to success [1-99] smallvillekalel is on the path to success [1-99] smallvillekalel is on the path to success [1-99] smallvillekalel is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by wellsfargo View Post
2 Mobility (40) T-34

Excellent (36) M4 Churchill Panther Cromwell Matilda II Tiger I PzKpfw IV

Good (24) Tiger II PzKpfw III Crusader IS-2 M3 KV-1

OK (12) Valentine PzKpfw 38T BT 5/7

Poor (0) M13-14 Char B-1 Somua S-35 Type 97


“Attack with aggression, but always have a plan of retreat”
Not to go on a King Matilda bashing rant or anything, but did you intend to put it in the excellent category?
__________________
"In the absence of orders...find something and kill it!" Lt. General Erwin Rommel, 1942
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 28 Apr 12, 01:45
smallvillekalel's Avatar
smallvillekalel smallvillekalel is offline
Major
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign CWiE 1939-45 Campaign 
 
Real Name: David M. Fortsch
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Blue Springs, MO
Posts: 954
smallvillekalel is on the path to success [1-99] smallvillekalel is on the path to success [1-99] smallvillekalel is on the path to success [1-99] smallvillekalel is on the path to success [1-99] smallvillekalel is on the path to success [1-99] smallvillekalel is on the path to success [1-99] smallvillekalel is on the path to success [1-99]
Winner---T-34


Excellent (36)M4 Sherman, Panther, BT-7,
Good (24)M3Grant, Churchill, Cromwell, 38t, S-35, PzIV, KV-1, PzIII
OK (12)Valentine, Char B1bis, M-13(14,15), Crusader, Type-97, IS-2, TigerI, TigerII
Poor (0)MatildaII


Ok, Broderick said it right, the T-34 was the go anywhere do anything tank. Built on the famous Christie suspension, she has great field capabilities including trench crossings, river fordings, and grade climbing. Her fuel economy was astounding as was the range it could cover in a single tank of fuel. Top speed...forget about it! Any road condition, any time of year, this tank gets there first and ready to do the job.

Supplied with enough fuel, the Panther could do about anything the T-34 could, some things even better. Her pathetic fuel economy is her only downfall. The Sherman gets high ranks for off-road speeds and versatility.

I couldn't justify placing the Churchill in the excellent category for a few reasons. First off, the power to weight ratio didn't warrant any happy faces, and her on and off-road speeds were an eye-sore. While she has good range, her fuel economy barely beats out the Tiger I. On the bright side, the Churchill handles off-road obstacles remarkably well. The tracks in front of hull design gives it alot of abilities clearing obstacles, and will warrant a good score when time to judge her contribution to tank design. Oh...and I couldn't find a tank on the list able to vertically clear an obstacle as high as the Churchill...four feet!

Although I would like to, I just couldn't justify putting the two Tigers in the basement with the Matilda. While having the worst fuel economy of the bunch, their ability to clear over or through obstacles and climb high grades on slippery surfaces due to their wide tracks can't be overlooked.

I had alot of fun making this list and look forward to some constructive debate soon!!
__________________
"In the absence of orders...find something and kill it!" Lt. General Erwin Rommel, 1942
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 28 Apr 12, 09:05
panther3485's Avatar
panther3485 panther3485 is offline
ACG Forums - Field Marshal
Australia
Distinguished Service Award - 2nd Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 
Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls 
Model Forum Group Build (Multiple) Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Paul
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 29,274
panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] panther3485 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Thanks David, recorded now.
__________________
"England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 20:43.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.