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  #31  
Old 17 Mar 11, 13:37
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A Thought

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Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
Ah...but we CAN switch to one where you don't even exist....
Could Be - Yeh - Could Be

Guess what - I think I would be happier with that one as well
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  #32  
Old 17 Mar 11, 13:52
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Hmmmm - Depends on Experience

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Originally Posted by The Doctor View Post
Mathematically speaking, there are an infinite number of dimensions.

Physical evidence only exists for four dimensions: Three spatial and one temporal.
The Physical Evidence bit is the limitation - but this only goes with our narrow and confined experience.
Our perceptions and comprehensions are constrained to only three linear directions ( dimensions ? ) of the Spatial Dimension, and one in the Temperal Dimension. By my reckoning - that makes two Dimensions - Spatial and Temporal, only one being fully percieved.

If there was physical evidence for a multitude of Dimensions - then we may just be completely unable to "see" or percieve it ( the physical evidence ), and totally unable to comprehend it.

A two-dimensional lifeform ( not sure how that would be possible ) would "see" all of our world as simply two dimensional in the Spatial Dimension, even though we can see it is otherwise.
Such a lifeform will see all our technological devices - and the things and "evidence" which "prove" the existence of three Spatial dimensions, as only two, and only providing "proof" of the existence of two.

Some more omniscient lifeforms may see the Temporal Dimension in more than one direction ( dimension ? ) - able to look back and forth along the timelines which define our individual personal existences, and also "sideways" into other Parallel timelines ( Probablities ?? ) - which is my viewpoint of the concept of Parallel Universes.

Maybe a Creater ( your choice if there is one ), can see backwards and forwards, "sideways", and at right angles to both those directions - plus maybe loads of other Dimensions.
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  #33  
Old 17 Mar 11, 16:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
Ah...but we CAN switch to one where you don't even exist....
With an infintite number of parallel universes, you would have in some of them.
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  #34  
Old 17 Mar 11, 22:38
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Parallel universes confuse me.

First wife I have those four. Wonderful kids. One has given me one grandchild and one on the way.
Second that I couldn't stand two beautiful children.

The love of my life I have these four little rugrats who I absolutely adore. And the middle kids look after the rugrats and they adore my wife. I couldn't ask for more.

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Originally Posted by Karakris View Post
The thing is - BOTH will exist - with a You in each.
The better one will be where you did that Deed, And GOT AWAY WITH IT ( no one ever suspected ) - And you never felt any guilt over it.
THAT Parallel Universe will exist - not many of them, but including all possibilities, quite a few.

Sounds okay with me

BTW - Glad you had some great Kids.

There will be a Parallel Universe ( several ) where I did the same, with my First Wife - but I would be a different kind of person
There will even be a Parallel Universe ( several ) where I did the same, with my Second Wife - but I would still be a different kind of person

In both of those kinds of Universes ( several of them ) - I may have never met my Dear Lady, Karen - and not set-up home with her.
I would then not have had the 25 years of happy times I have had with Dear Karen, so far.

Still - I AM in this one - and so Happy with Karen
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  #35  
Old 18 Mar 11, 04:26
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Originally Posted by rebpreacher View Post
Parallel universes confuse me.

First wife I have those four. Wonderful kids. One has given me one grandchild and one on the way.
Second that I couldn't stand two beautiful children.

The love of my life I have these four little rugrats who I absolutely adore. And the middle kids look after the rugrats and they adore my wife. I couldn't ask for more.
Sounds Very Good - So Pleased For You
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  #36  
Old 18 Mar 11, 10:53
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I read somewhere that if you were to enter a universe where the laws of physics would not permit your existence, that you would be totally and utterly destroyed, no information of you (in the physics definition of the term) would remain, note that strictly speaking this violates the laws of thermodynamics as matter is being destroyed, this is why collisions between universes supposedly create massive swathes of empty space, because everything that gets within the bubble of the devouring universe (the one with the higher cosmological constant; thankfully our universe has a pretty high cosmological constant so it's more likely to be the devourer than the devouree) is probably going to cease existing since it's rather unlikely that the two universe's laws of physics will be very compatible.

The reason this does not happen more often is because the space in a multiverse (that's right, A not the multiverse, a multiverse is to a universe as a galactic cluster is to a galaxy, there are a few scales of organization even bigger than a multiverse) is infinite (how can a multiverse be infinite and still not be the biggest thing? Well infinity is weird, you have countably infinite which is kinda but sorta not truly infinite, and even with true infinity you can have an infinite number of infinitely large objects in an infinitely large area and still have an infinite amount of space between them while simultaneously having them touching. It's all one big mind **** basically) and universes with a beginning are by definition finite.

So if you make your interuniversal transport machine, please send a unmanned probe or person with a death wish in first to see if your destination's laws of physics will permit your existence (and remember, not every object may be able to make the trip from here to there or vice versa, and even if everything from here can survive there, not everything from there may survive here. Is your mind blown yet?) Also; please check thoroughly for the presence of Eldritch Abominations who would make the gods crap their pants in horror, few things can ruin a relaxing vacation to another universe like having your soul devoured and your pysche shattered by a gribbly tentacled monstrosity that should not be.
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  #37  
Old 18 Mar 11, 14:16
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By different laws of physics, it is generally meant that the strengths of the various forces and the values of the constants would differ. In many cases this would lead to the chemical or even nuclear bonds that keep you together failing spectacularly.

So it is likely you would just be converted to simple energy. Still 'destroyed' but no additional conservation laws violated.
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  #38  
Old 18 Mar 11, 15:24
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A Viewpoint

Everything I have said before is what I do truly believe.

However - one last thing remains - How and why ??

Now we come to Religion - which for me is almost unique.
Two Forces - Chaos and Order.

Chaos would have everything constantly changing, not even matter would exist - something like Universes of pure energy.

Order would have everything constantly the same - no change, no energy. No chemical or atomic reactions
A Cosmos comprising single solid masses - something like Universes of Neutronium, or even as single black holes.

But BOTH - they are in constant opposition, with neither ever gaining ascendency.
The Result - constantly shifting changing Universes, but constrained to work within physical "rules" and "physical proporties" which are the result of the opposition and counter-action between Chaos and Order.

Michael Moorcock wrote some Tales using these ideas - but not really taking it totally to its conclusion, his Forces were too amphropomorphic ( people or Gods ), and he never looked at the true effects on the physics and physical Universes.
He also postulated a blancing Force - The Balance, presiding over all and ensuring that neither Chaos or Order "got their own way" completely.
Not sure if I believe in The Balance or not - but then Religion is a funny thing - it often works quite differently from Science and Logic.

Neither Chaos, Order or The Balance ( if it exists ) would be The Creator.
The Creator would have had to exist so far back in time that it is meaningless, if the Universe has always been ( I believe ) - created and destroyed by its endless journey through the three dimensional realm of the Temporal Dimension.

Sorry to make your Heads Hurt - not meant to
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  #39  
Old 19 Mar 11, 12:31
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First rule of talking about parallel universes: There are no rules.
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Old 19 Mar 11, 12:51
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Quote:
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Each of us lives in a separate universe.
Then why did they invent cubicle walls?
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Old 19 Mar 11, 21:09
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It's important to keep in mind that as human being we have a thing called "free will". We can CHOOSE which universe we will inhabit in the future.

We can choose between life and suicide at any moment.
We can choose between Wife and suicide/murder at any moment.
We can choose where to shop, who to see, what to do next and make plans for those future universes.
Goto college? Yes/No, if yes, which one, what to study, where to get a job afterwords, etc. etc. etc.

All possibilities (not impossibilities) exist. Reality is just the possibility that you choose, or the one chosen for you by circumstance.
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  #42  
Old 20 Mar 11, 21:01
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An infinite multiverse makes the most sense to me. I'm less certain about truly paralell universes.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirate-Drakk View Post
It's important to keep in mind that as human being we have a thing called "free will". We can CHOOSE which universe we will inhabit in the future.
I am less and less convinced that we have free will at least as it is generally understood. At any decision point, I think the outcome is determined by the cumulative effect of circumstance, biology and the entire life experience of the decision maker.
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  #43  
Old 25 Mar 11, 15:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirate-Drakk View Post
It's important to keep in mind that as human being we have a thing called "free will". We can CHOOSE which universe we will inhabit in the future.

We can choose between life and suicide at any moment.
We can choose between Wife and suicide/murder at any moment.
We can choose where to shop, who to see, what to do next and make plans for those future universes.
Goto college? Yes/No, if yes, which one, what to study, where to get a job afterwords, etc. etc. etc.

All possibilities (not impossibilities) exist. Reality is just the possibility that you choose, or the one chosen for you by circumstance.
Actually, I don't think we have "free will" in the sense that I believe you mean. What we have is a limited choice that must be made from whatever options we perceive to be available at the time.
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  #44  
Old 25 Mar 11, 17:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirate-Drakk View Post
It's important to keep in mind that as human being we have a thing called "free will". We can CHOOSE which universe we will inhabit in the future.

We can choose between life and suicide at any moment.
We can choose between Wife and suicide/murder at any moment.
We can choose where to shop, who to see, what to do next and make plans for those future universes.
Goto college? Yes/No, if yes, which one, what to study, where to get a job afterwords, etc. etc. etc.

All possibilities (not impossibilities) exist. Reality is just the possibility that you choose, or the one chosen for you by circumstance.
Some theorists have expanded the postition of Stephen Hawking to mean that with an infinite set of parallel universes/dimensions/planes there would necessarily be those in which that version of "you" decided to do any and all of the things possible.

That philosophical approach was considered to be fixed and essentially deterministic, again Hawking described it as virtually or indistinguishable from determinism, including this universe in which the "you" of whom you are self aware inhabits.
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  #45  
Old 25 Mar 11, 17:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
Actually, I don't think we have "free will" in the sense that I believe you mean. What we have is a limited choice that must be made from whatever options we perceive to be available at the time.
True but essentially the same thing as free will. If one is unaware of all options, they can only will to those available or really to those one is aware of.
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