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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Europe

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Europe Issues of modern Europe.

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  #346  
Old 17 Jul 17, 07:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljadw View Post
Because, if the state wins, we are going the way of Germany between 1933/1945: the state wants to lock up the child in the palliative section, to take the child away from the parents and to do with the child at will . We have here an attempt to kidnap and to murder .
The state isn't winning anything except in your imagination here.

Medicine is losing this however. Which is different.

And the whole POINT of the medical argument presented so far is that there is no point in continued treatment because it can only be palliative. YOU now want continued palliative treatment, regardless of the patient's situation, or else it is Nazi Germany all over however.

You seem to demonstrate no understanding of how bad the medical condition is...

Last edited by Johan Banér; 17 Jul 17 at 07:55..
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  #347  
Old 17 Jul 17, 08:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljadw View Post
Strawman : I was not talking about the UK,but about the Charlie Gard case : the child can not give his consent, but someone must do it ,and this someone can only be the parents . Otherwise the rights of the parents are eliminated and the child is outlawed,powerless against the state .

It is not a question of a next of kind, but of a guardian .
Which is where the professional medical expertise comes in, AND the courts.

Even well-intentioned parents usually aren't allowed to torture their kids. We have laws against that kind of thing.

(Though in fairness, the parents want to continue hoping, and in the mean time for the medical profession to torture the kid, since it's the only way to keep him alive a bit longer.)

Which is pretty much where this situation has ended up.

Then YOU have somehow managed to boil this down to a ridiculous reduction of parents vs state. What's at PLAY here is professional medical expertise, and the majesty of the law. Both of which are INDEPENDENT of either government or private interest. PRECISELY because we DO NOT want the state to arbitrarily decide everything (hence laws, and independent courts), anymore than we accept that private individuals should be allowed to inflict whatever kind of misery on their offspring.

I's say there are at least four aspects to consider here, but you only count two.
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  #348  
Old 17 Jul 17, 08:43
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It is the parents vs the state : the state is saying to the parents : the quality of live of your child is too low, we will send him to the palliative section where he will remain till he dies . And your opinion is irrelevant . We decide . Over life and death of your child .

Pretty totalitarian .

But ,not surprising from a state who took away children from their parents,because the opinion of the parents was not PC .
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  #349  
Old 17 Jul 17, 11:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljadw View Post
This is irrelevant : the wish of the patient/guardians must prevail .
That you say so is irrelevant. Today British law is the prevailing condition. This has even a name : Democracy.
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  #350  
Old 17 Jul 17, 13:12
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No : the name is totalitarian liberalism .
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  #351  
Old 17 Jul 17, 13:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johan Banér View Post
What's at PLAY here is professional medical expertise,

and the majesty of the law. .
1)Doctor Brandt and doctor Gebhardt also had professional medical expertise .


2)The nazis also were talking about the majesty of the laws of Nuremberg .

Palliative care = euthanasia .

And, no doctor, no judge can impose euthanasia on a patient .

Palliative care is not a type of medecine based on objective evidence or statistics .

Mercy killing without consent is nothing else but murder (Telegraph of 23 january 2010 .)
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  #352  
Old 17 Jul 17, 16:33
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Interestingly the lawyer 'representing' Charlie is a euthanasia enthusiast...
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  #353  
Old 17 Jul 17, 17:49
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Not sure if someone had already mentioned it, flying Charlie to the US would have been a challenge since airlines won't do it.

A good tweet by Trump and appeal by people to send his plane has gone mostly unnoticed.

http://www.wnd.com/2017/07/trump-urg...ordered-death/
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  #354  
Old 18 Jul 17, 00:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljadw View Post
No : the name is totalitarian liberalism .
Our British friends here will be happy to learn that UK is a totalitarian state...
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  #355  
Old 18 Jul 17, 00:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salinator View Post
Not sure if someone had already mentioned it, flying Charlie to the US would have been a challenge since airlines won't do it.

A good tweet by Trump and appeal by people to send his plane has gone mostly unnoticed.

http://www.wnd.com/2017/07/trump-urg...ordered-death/
Probably because there was nothing to notice since Americans doctors never claimed that their treatment would have improved baby's state.
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  #356  
Old 18 Jul 17, 01:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metryll View Post
Our British friends here will be happy to learn that UK is a totalitarian state...
A state where children are taking away from their parents because these have non PC opinions .

A country where the state is saying : your child has no longer the needed quality of live, thus we will kidnap it and lock it up in the palliative section to die .

A country where criticism of the Islam is illegal .


Nice .
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  #357  
Old 18 Jul 17, 02:20
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Originally Posted by Metryll View Post
Probably because there was nothing to notice since Americans doctors never claimed that their treatment would have improved baby's state.
What are you ranting about? My post was in reference to a possible air ride that Trump might have offered if necessary. Stop babbling just to argue.
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Last edited by Salinator; 18 Jul 17 at 02:25..
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  #358  
Old 18 Jul 17, 03:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salinator View Post
What are you ranting about? My post was in reference to a possible air ride that Trump might have offered if necessary. Stop babbling just to argue.
You're getting too much emotional. Read my post. I said that Trump tweet, like Vatican offer btw, went as unoticed because none of the doctors, British, American or Italian argued that a succesfull treatment was likely possible. In such a case how move Charlie become secondary.

Don't know what you understood but would be nice of you to read poster text before going balistic. Will be good for anyone here.
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  #359  
Old 18 Jul 17, 03:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljadw View Post
A state where children are taking away from their parents because these have non PC opinions .
So child victim of violents parents should be left with them ?

Quote:
A country where the state is saying : your child has no longer the needed quality of live, thus we will kidnap it and lock it up in the palliative section to die .
A country in which LAW say that child best interest is OVER parents best interest. Got it ?

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A country where criticism of the Islam is illegal .
Irrelevant.

Quote:
Nice.
Would be if you learned, after 20 pages, the difference between State and Law...
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  #360  
Old 18 Jul 17, 04:34
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Never heard of Extremism Disruption Orders which allows judges to ban people who are DEEMED extremists (= non PC )(but do not break laws ) from broadcasting,protesting in designated places or posting messages on Social Media ?

Democracy ? NO : totalitarian democracy where Big Brother rules and where there is no limit on the power of the state .
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