HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Weapons of War > Naval Warfare

Notices and Announcements

Naval Warfare A place to discuss all things Naval!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #46  
Old 15 Jul 17, 06:52
Half Pint John's Avatar
Half Pint John Half Pint John is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: John (NO LABELS)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Stuttgart Germany
Posts: 46,678
Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+]  [+1]
Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Germany had A day ,last year iirc, were it was run only off renewable. I would think that you have better resources for renewable than Germany.
__________________
"Ask not what your country can do for you"

[COLOR=Blue][I]Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 15 Jul 17, 07:13
At ease's Avatar
At ease At ease is online now
General of the Forums
Australia
5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft 
 
Real Name: John Giles
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Sydney
Posts: 5,634
At ease gives and gets respect [800] At ease gives and gets respect [800]
At ease gives and gets respect [800] At ease gives and gets respect [800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
Germany had A day ,last year iirc, were it was run only off renewable. I would think that you have better resources for renewable than Germany.
You would, possibly, think - but that does not make it so.

Solar/wind etc is more expensive than coal which is located near large parts of our widely scattered population.

Part of the reason Australia's demography is shaped as it is is because of the existence of a few, extremely large, coal deposits and the consequent concentration of population near these deposits used for electrical power and steel production.

These world scale coal deposits allowed the development of very cheap - well, it used to be - electricity and a competitive, until recently, steel industry.

That is under very real threat because of the "chicken littles".

Renewables cannot hope to compete without taxpayer subsidies.

I don't want to be forced to pay more for power, or even worse, have it denied to me on hot days because of some unproven "scientific" theory.

More importantly, I do not want to see disadvantaged people die because of misguided public policy.

It is ironic that Australia's "Left Wing" political parties are the main advocates for "Clean & Green" power, yet they are going to be the ones responsible for these deaths, trust me - it WILL happen, and also be responsible for increased manufacturing costs and consequent loss of jobs due to increased power prices.

Go figure.

Lastly:

Most coal is exported from Australia- $ "in" = GOOD

Most solar panels imported from China- $ "out" = NOT SO GOOD

__________________
"It's like shooting rats in a barrel."
"You'll be in a barrel if you don't watch out for the fighters!"

"Talking about airplanes is a very pleasant mental disease."
Sergei(son of Igor) Sikorsky, 'AOPA Pilot' magazine February 2003.

Last edited by At ease; 15 Jul 17 at 07:23..
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 15 Jul 17, 18:34
BELGRAVE's Avatar
BELGRAVE BELGRAVE is offline
General of the Forums
Australia
5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: PHILIP WHITEHOUSE
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: MELBOURNE
Posts: 5,921
BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600]
BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
Make a deal with the US/USN to OJT on the American boats for starts. But you being a non-nuke nation is going to make it hard and expensive for refueling, training and maintenance of a Nuke Boat. IMO non-nuke is the smart way for Australia to go.
Given the lengthy time-frame involved in finally getting the proposed conventional subs into service,there should be time enough to obtain the necessary expertise to go nuclear ourselves.

There is a certain amount of know-how available anyway and nuclear fuel is in abundance
__________________
"I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
Samuel Johnson.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 15 Jul 17, 18:37
the ace's Avatar
the ace the ace is offline
General of the Forums
Scotland
5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Andrew
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 5,518
the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700]
the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Surely, "Down."

Isn't that what they're for ?
__________________
Indyref2 - still, "Yes."
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 15 Jul 17, 18:46
BELGRAVE's Avatar
BELGRAVE BELGRAVE is offline
General of the Forums
Australia
5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: PHILIP WHITEHOUSE
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: MELBOURNE
Posts: 5,921
BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600]
BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600]
Quote:
Originally Posted by At ease View Post
You would, possibly, think - but that does not make it so.

Solar/wind etc is more expensive than coal which is located near large parts of our widely scattered population.

Part of the reason Australia's demography is shaped as it is is because of the existence of a few, extremely large, coal deposits and the consequent concentration of population near these deposits used for electrical power and steel production.

These world scale coal deposits allowed the development of very cheap - well, it used to be - electricity and a competitive, until recently, steel industry.

That is under very real threat because of the "chicken littles".

Renewables cannot hope to compete without taxpayer subsidies.

I don't want to be forced to pay more for power, or even worse, have it denied to me on hot days because of some unproven "scientific" theory.

More importantly, I do not want to see disadvantaged people die because of misguided public policy.

It is ironic that Australia's "Left Wing" political parties are the main advocates for "Clean & Green" power, yet they are going to be the ones responsible for these deaths, trust me - it WILL happen, and also be responsible for increased manufacturing costs and consequent loss of jobs due to increased power prices.

Go figure.

Lastly:

Most coal is exported from Australia- $ "in" = GOOD

Most solar panels imported from China- $ "out" = NOT SO GOOD

A contentous subject in these parts, and it's one of those topics that is generally viewed on party lines. The Right stresses the virtues of coal, while the left renewables. (We should have gone nuclear years ago).
In the long term ,I think renewables:- we've plenty of space and plenty of sun, and there's no reason why Australia should not take the lead in the researching and manufacture of solar panels. The trouble is that such is the enthusiasm of the Left to embrace wind and solar that they have prematurely neglected the sources of power used hitherto,so we are faced with a difficult transition period.
__________________
"I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
Samuel Johnson.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #51  
Old 15 Jul 17, 23:35
Achtung Baby's Avatar
Achtung Baby Achtung Baby is offline
General of the Forums
Armchair_General
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C SPQR Campaign Model Forum Group Build Victor Model Forum Group Build (Multiple - Ace) 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: ...
Posts: 15,214
Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BELGRAVE View Post
Given the lengthy time-frame involved in finally getting the proposed conventional subs into service,there should be time enough to obtain the necessary expertise to go nuclear ourselves.

There is a certain amount of know-how available anyway and nuclear fuel is in abundance
The distance just to navigate around Australia is indeed quite vast, but the current subs have managed fine. And the need to stay submerged for extended periods of time has never presented itself, subs are quite fluid in avoiding a hostile environment... and the only country that has an serious ASW coverage is our ally, the US navy.
__________________
"In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
Ernest Hemingway.

First get your facts straight, then distort them at your leisure. - Mark Twain.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 16 Jul 17, 04:48
BELGRAVE's Avatar
BELGRAVE BELGRAVE is offline
General of the Forums
Australia
5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: PHILIP WHITEHOUSE
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: MELBOURNE
Posts: 5,921
BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600]
BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Achtung Baby View Post
The distance just to navigate around Australia is indeed quite vast, but the current subs have managed fine. And the need to stay submerged for extended periods of time has never presented itself, subs are quite fluid in avoiding a hostile environment... and the only country that has an serious ASW coverage is our ally, the US navy.
Yes, at present.
__________________
"I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
Samuel Johnson.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 16 Jul 17, 05:22
Half Pint John's Avatar
Half Pint John Half Pint John is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: John (NO LABELS)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Stuttgart Germany
Posts: 46,678
Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+]  [+1]
Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BELGRAVE View Post
Given the lengthy time-frame involved in finally getting the proposed conventional subs into service,there should be time enough to obtain the necessary expertise to go nuclear ourselves.

There is a certain amount of know-how available anyway and nuclear fuel is in abundance
I know the ore is in abundance. Has it been refined into fuel?

If you already have a long time frame for non-nuke subs it seems it would be much longer for nukes. I don't see the logic in your comment.
__________________
"Ask not what your country can do for you"

[COLOR=Blue][I]Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 17 Jul 17, 05:32
BELGRAVE's Avatar
BELGRAVE BELGRAVE is offline
General of the Forums
Australia
5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: PHILIP WHITEHOUSE
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: MELBOURNE
Posts: 5,921
BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600]
BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600] BELGRAVE is simply cracking [600]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
I know the ore is in abundance. Has it been refined into fuel?

If you already have a long time frame for non-nuke subs it seems it would be much longer for nukes. I don't see the logic in your comment.
Not that you'd notice. There is a research facility at Lucas Heights, Sydney, but nothing much else-as far as I'm aware.
The fact is that they'll be a long hiatus anyway,regardless, so we might as well go nuclear and be done with it. Why settle for second best ?
(Logic -me ? You're asking a lot.John )
__________________
"I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
Samuel Johnson.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 17 Jul 17, 05:52
Half Pint John's Avatar
Half Pint John Half Pint John is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: John (NO LABELS)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Stuttgart Germany
Posts: 46,678
Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+]  [+1]
Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
(Logic -me ? You're asking a lot.John )
Sorry Mate, I forgot
__________________
"Ask not what your country can do for you"

[COLOR=Blue][I]Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 22:22.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.