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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Modern Wars & Warfare > Cold War

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Cold War Discuss aspects of the Cold War not covered in other forums.

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  #136  
Old 14 Jul 17, 11:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
"Rapeugees." Bravo for racist stereotyping.

I wonder how you can call them this way and then believe that they will be of some military use.
Following this logic USA should also be preparing to a war with Russia since you have millions of Mexicans in USA.
These brave guys immediately sprung to my mind
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goumier
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate
(I still pity Sophia Loren's character)
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  #137  
Old 15 Jul 17, 00:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
Don't see where is the problem here. What is constant problem of hardcore Right with the pollution ? Maybe you like to have chemicals in your food, water and air ? Why not radiation then ?
Speaking of going to idiotic extremes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
VW lied about the respect of pollution standards. It's not only against the laws but also an insult to the relations between them and their consumers. This will teach them - and not only them - a lesson of fair-play.
I still think it is a silly idea to treat a non-violent offender that way... but I am talking at a guy who has repeatedly said he wants to kill every billionaire, so...

No, genius, the Right does not want to eat poison and make everyone dead, stop projecting your fantasy onto us.
The fact is, since about a decade ago, pollution in the USA has been reduced to HALF of what it was in the 1970s. Leftists (like the media, and you) have tried to ignore this fact, in order to keep a useful crisis alive. It allows you to try to exterminate yet another thing you hate; a healthy economy and a good industrial base for the West.

The point was long since passed when we were getting a worth-while return on anything of this kind. VW pushed the bounds because meeting the pollution standards in the US (they meet or exceed them for the EU) was cutting the gas mileage WAY down. That is how ridiculous it is... and a lot of people out there are too stupid to realize that when you cut milage you are burning so much more fuel that it is actually more polluting than NOT doing so!

EPA used to mean Environmental Protection Agency. Today, people just call it the Employment Prevention Agenda.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
And what makes you say that the enemies of Trump are on the left ?

COMMON SENSE. Try it someday, you might like it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
Being friendly with Soros, Saudis and others show how "Left" they're. If you knew history you would remember how leftist Stalin get rid of leftist Trotsky, leftist Zinoviev, leftist Bukarien and broke up with leftist Tito. Or how leftist USSR fought against leftist China who also fought against leftist Vietnam who in his turn invaded leftist Cambodia.

So what does THAT have to do with anything?
Absolutist fanatics on either side ALWAYS get to slaughtering each other once they are done slaughtering everyone else.
That is why extremism is a bad thing, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
You're playing exactly the same game as the other side does. They use the scarecrow of Russia when you use the scarecrow of the Left. But what in truth is going, is a Civil War inside American Rightist Elites. Is it so hard to understand that the conflict isn't about Right and Left but about two groups of elites fighting for power and money ?
The "civil war" on the Right is between Trump and his supporters and the lame old Neo-cons, Republicants and the same old crap like McCain... who don't represent the Right and are far closer to the Democrats in all but name.
It is their actions that prove this.
Do you really want to get into a debate about internal politics with me? You will need more than Soros-funded talking points to sound as if you know more than an American does about life in America.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
It was completely dehumanizing and disgusting back in 50's, nothing changed since then....
Wrong, lots of things have changed since the 1950s... except for your mind-set.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
He is not a Quisling. He is part of your elite. He does what he was programmed to do - get as much money and power as possible.
Making him different from other politicians in WHAT way, exactly?

Quisling means Betrayer ... and if a man betrays the people that voted for his as well as all the principles of his own party, and then lies about it, that fits the bill, don't you know?
We say Benedict Arnold in this country, but I figured you wouldn't know what I was talking about, or just pretend that you don't and try to waste a few more paragraphs on another diversion.
Again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
"Rapeugees." Bravo for racist stereotyping.
Heh heh, that has already been covered here, but if you really want to go there, shall we talk about racism in Belgium? Your Colony in the Congo, that ought to be familiar to somebody that lives in the past.

And BTW, I am not the one that coined that term, it has been around for a while now. The New Years Eve before last in Cologne, I believe, is where it was invented.

Let me guess, you have no idea what I am talking about, again, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
Following this logic USA should also be preparing to a war with Russia since you have millions of Mexicans in USA.
Several things are wrong about that, and first on that list has been that we have had illegals coming here for decades.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
Is it the fault of communists that they almost always have to fight a far better equipped enemy ?
Yes.
The fault of the USSR, mostly, in sending cheap cast-offs to Guerrilla movements who usually created regimes that were even worse than what they overthrew... once they won, if they won.
And if your weapons are crap, that is also a reflection on your industry and your engineers. Discouraging initiative and failing to reward talent & effort has it's penalties, you know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
You said it yourself. Russia supported then Union because Britain and France were more favorite towards CSA. In WWI and WWII they were allies because Germany was a threat to both of them. Russia was also allied with Britain during both World Wars and Napoleonic war. It didn't changed that between they were on bad terms and opposing each other. Countries doesn't have friends. They have interests.
You are trying as hard as you can to put a sly little spin on those words as possible, but that has no effect whatsoever on the truth as I said it.

I know the very idea makes your blood boil with rage, but the American people and the Russian people re not pre-destined to destroy each other.
Sorry to spoil your plans.
We make better allies than enemies, that is the verdict of History.

And one last thing; Bismarck was wrong, Nations can have whatever attitude they like towards each other.
No nihilistic turn of phrase from some old demagogue can change that.
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  #138  
Old 15 Jul 17, 16:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
Speaking of going to idiotic extremes



I still think it is a silly idea to treat a non-violent offender that way... but I am talking at a guy who has repeatedly said he wants to kill every billionaire, so...

No, genius, the Right does not want to eat poison and make everyone dead, stop projecting your fantasy onto us.
The fact is, since about a decade ago, pollution in the USA has been reduced to HALF of what it was in the 1970s. Leftists (like the media, and you) have tried to ignore this fact, in order to keep a useful crisis alive. It allows you to try to exterminate yet another thing you hate; a healthy economy and a good industrial base for the West.

The point was long since passed when we were getting a worth-while return on anything of this kind. VW pushed the bounds because meeting the pollution standards in the US (they meet or exceed them for the EU) was cutting the gas mileage WAY down. That is how ridiculous it is... and a lot of people out there are too stupid to realize that when you cut milage you are burning so much more fuel that it is actually more polluting than NOT doing so!

EPA used to mean Environmental Protection Agency. Today, people just call it the Employment Prevention Agenda.
Don't put the words in my mouth. You're inventing stuff about billionaires.

Concerning pollution, how does reducing the pollution is related to industry and economy ? EU has a population 60% bigger than in USA but produces 30 less CO2. Our economy and industry are not worse for this. So there is clearly something going wrong in your reasoning. And economy and industry are not the goals of a society, they're just tools to provide a better life. Your reasoning is very similar to Soviet line of thought: let's build plenty of factories for produce stuff and don't care about the rest. It doesn't works like that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post

COMMON SENSE. Try it someday, you might like it.
COMMON SENSE say that billionaires cannot be on the Left. Someone with millions on his accounts cannot be on the Left. Simple, doesn't ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post

So what does THAT have to do with anything?
Absolutist fanatics on either side ALWAYS get to slaughtering each other once they are done slaughtering everyone else.
That is why extremism is a bad thing, right?
It had everything to do with the subject. There is no need to have different ideologies to have a conflict. You're WRONG to believe that there is a monolith Right opposing a monolith Left. Clinton and Trump are both from the Right. They both like money and power. An excellent reason to be in war with each other.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
The "civil war" on the Right is between Trump and his supporters and the lame old Neo-cons, Republicants and the same old crap like McCain... who don't represent the Right and are far closer to the Democrats in all but name.
It is their actions that prove this.
Do you really want to get into a debate about internal politics with me? You will need more than Soros-funded talking points to sound as if you know more than an American does about life in America.
Wow. Now McCain and his team aren't the Right anymore. Your discourse is extremly similar to one in Stalinist time. Doesn't like Stalin ? Then you're a traitor, trotskist and Western agent. The same with you. McCain opposing Trump ? He is certainly a Leftist. A good thing for simple minds who doesn't understand things outside a black - white vision but completely wrong in a world with 50 shades of grey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
Wrong, lots of things have changed since the 1950s... except for your mind-set.


The pot calling the kettle black. Seeing the Reds everywhere, it's you hobby, not mine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
Making him different from other politicians in WHAT way, exactly?

Quisling means Betrayer ... and if a man betrays the people that voted for his as well as all the principles of his own party, and then lies about it, that fits the bill, don't you know?
We say Benedict Arnold in this country, but I figured you wouldn't know what I was talking about, or just pretend that you don't and try to waste a few more paragraphs on another diversion.
Again.
He cannot betray anyone since he serves only himself. There are no laws to punsih those who don't follow the principes of his party nor those who don't follow their promises.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
Heh heh, that has already been covered here, but if you really want to go there, shall we talk about racism in Belgium? Your Colony in the Congo, that ought to be familiar to somebody that lives in the past.

And BTW, I am not the one that coined that term, it has been around for a while now. The New Years Eve before last in Cologne, I believe, is where it was invented.

Let me guess, you have no idea what I am talking about, again, right?
Nice try to derail the subject towards Belgium. But it doesn't work. Calling them this way is simply racist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
Several things are wrong about that, and first on that list has been that we have had illegals coming here for decades.
Maybe because someone need them to come ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
Yes.
The fault of the USSR, mostly, in sending cheap cast-offs to Guerrilla movements who usually created regimes that were even worse than what they overthrew... once they won, if they won.
And if your weapons are crap, that is also a reflection on your industry and your engineers. Discouraging initiative and failing to reward talent & effort has it's penalties, you know.
Those weapons are working perfectly today. Like in Yemen where locals butn new Abrams US sold to Saudi. Who are btw the proof that the weapons doesn't make the army.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
You are trying as hard as you can to put a sly little spin on those words as possible, but that has no effect whatsoever on the truth as I said it.

I know the very idea makes your blood boil with rage, but the American people and the Russian people re not pre-destined to destroy each other.
Sorry to spoil your plans.
We make better allies than enemies, that is the verdict of History.
It has nothing to do with peoples. It has to do with national interests. It's in American national interests to have control in Europe and Asia and it's against Russian national interests.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
And one last thing; Bismarck was wrong, Nations can have whatever attitude they like towards each other.
No nihilistic turn of phrase from some old demagogue can change that.
Nations cannot have whatever attitude towards each other. They can only have the attitudes programmed by the elites.
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  #139  
Old 16 Jul 17, 01:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
Don't put the words in my mouth. You're inventing stuff about billionaires.
Since you have been doing it constantly you can just suck up some of what you have been shoveling around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
Concerning pollution, how does reducing the pollution is related to industry and economy ? EU has a population 60% bigger than in USA but produces 30 less CO2.
CO2 isn't a pollutant, and at .04% of the atmosphere it is barely enough to keep plant-life healthy at the levels we know today.

And these last tenths of a percent are insignificant to the overall picture. However, this constant drive to reduce them to vanishingly small levels is driving up the expense of things like cars to unaffordable levels in the US.

And one other thing; VW was busted because the pollution standards they meet are European ones. The US standards are much more stringent, which is why they failed here.
It is also why we can't have cars that get 60mph in the US, the lunatics in command at the EPA have mandated that burning all that fuel is better than having a millionth of a particle more in the air.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
Our economy and industry are not worse for this. So there is clearly something going wrong in your reasoning. And economy and industry are not the goals of a society, they're just tools to provide a better life. Your reasoning is very similar to Soviet line of thought: let's build plenty of factories for produce stuff and don't care about the rest. It doesn't works like that.
Yes, they are tools for a better life, which is why your Socialism needs to control them; to reduce everyone to a similar level of misery... and call that equality.
Except for the Governing Elite, that is.
THat has always been the result.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
COMMON SENSE say that billionaires cannot be on the Left. Someone with millions on his accounts cannot be on the Left. Simple, doesn't ?
So you never heard of George Soros, Bill Gates, that Facebook geek, or Warren Buffet?

Yeah, I know, nobody can be a Leftist unless they are a pure Marxist... in your world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
It had everything to do with the subject. There is no need to have different ideologies to have a conflict. You're WRONG to believe that there is a monolith Right opposing a monolith Left. Clinton and Trump are both from the Right. They both like money and power. An excellent reason to be in war with each other.
There you go again, putting words into other people's mouths.
And then complaining when others do it to you, still?
figures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
Wow. Now McCain and his team aren't the Right anymore. Your discourse is extremly similar to one in Stalinist time. Doesn't like Stalin ? Then you're a traitor, trotskist and Western agent. The same with you. McCain opposing Trump ? He is certainly a Leftist. A good thing for simple minds who doesn't understand things outside a black - white vision but completely wrong in a world with 50 shades of grey.
Says the absolutist that can't admit that anyone mentioned in any of the posts in this thread are on the Left, escept for maybe Stalin and a few other freaks like him.

Pot, meet the darkest end of the Cosmos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
The pot calling the kettle black. Seeing the Reds everywhere, it's you hobby, not mine.
You are saying that YOU are not a Red?
That would be very funny, considering how you have already said that only those who control the means of production and distribution can be Socialists, and apparently nobody is really a Leftist... except you, apparently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
Nice try to derail the subject towards Belgium. But it doesn't work. Calling them this way is simply racist.
Nah, I'm just reminding you that you are in Belgium.
You seem to need that every once in a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
Maybe because someone need them to come ?
As foot-soldiers?
Hah!
No shortage of red-blooded young men ready to tear into our enemies here. However, in Germany and other parts of the EU, men have become so feminized that they can't protect their own women from Rapeugees even in the most public settings.
The big debate in Germany and Denmark was about how evil it was that men urinate standing up, and how they should have to sit when doing that... just like women.
Yeah, I'm sure they would make great soldiers!

Face it, no EU Army would last ten minutes against the Russians, even with cannon-fodeer imported from Africa and the Middle East.
Just forget about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
Those weapons are working perfectly today. Like in Yemen where locals butn new Abrams US sold to Saudi. Who are btw the proof that the weapons doesn't make the army.
Yeah, the Yemen sure is known for technical know-how... NOT.
Abrams tanks annihilated Soviet-made tanks all over the world, especially in Iraq.
I was there and saw it happen. In one afternoon of driving I counted 138 destroyed AFVs, not a single one of which was a US vehicle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
It has nothing to do with peoples. It has to do with national interests. It's in American national interests to have control in Europe and Asia and it's against Russian national interests.
So, we just have to disagree.
I think that a Government by the people, of the people, for the people is a good thing.
You don't.

Really? Well, we sure don't have much of a handle on that, do we?
Why should Russia even care?
I've already made the point that Russia would be better off avoiding all these foreign entanglements.
They sure didn't do the old USSR any good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
Nations cannot have whatever attitude towards each other. They can only have the attitudes programmed by the elites.
So who programed YOU?

Let me guess...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSfU-Qhl6M4


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  #140  
Old 16 Jul 17, 03:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
The big debate in Germany and Denmark was about how evil it was that men urinate standing up, and how they should have to sit when doing that... just like women.
Yeah, I'm sure they would make great soldiers!
According to feminist logic women should do it standing up
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  #141  
Old 16 Jul 17, 10:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post

CO2 isn't a pollutant, and at .04% of the atmosphere it is barely enough to keep plant-life healthy at the levels we know today.

And these last tenths of a percent are insignificant to the overall picture. However, this constant drive to reduce them to vanishingly small levels is driving up the expense of things like cars to unaffordable levels in the US.

And one other thing; VW was busted because the pollution standards they meet are European ones. The US standards are much more stringent, which is why they failed here.
It is also why we can't have cars that get 60mph in the US, the lunatics in command at the EPA have mandated that burning all that fuel is better than having a millionth of a particle more in the air.
You should have read something before posting nonsense.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/23/b...r-scandal.html

11 millions of cars worldwide and only 500 000 in USA. You're greatly overestimating the importance of USA in this fraud.

And as this document shows, the difference between US and EU standards isn't that important. US are more stric in some cases, EU more strict in others.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegDat...)587331_EN.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
Yes, they are tools for a better life, which is why your Socialism needs to control them; to reduce everyone to a similar level of misery... and call that equality.
Except for the Governing Elite, that is.
THat has always been the result.
What misery ? Under socialism everyone had a roof over head, access to medecine, work and education. Almost all improvements in human society were done by Left wing politics: paid vacations, women's rights, 40 hours weeks, maternity leave, etc... Real life without Left is Middle Ages where the elites have everyting and the workers nothing. But since you don't have much of this stuff in US, I can understand why it's difficult foir you to get it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
So you never heard of George Soros, Bill Gates, that Facebook geek, or Warren Buffet?

Yeah, I know, nobody can be a Leftist unless they are a pure Marxist... in your world.
Read about what Left wing is. As private owners of means of produc tion, they certainly cannot belong to the Left wing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
There you go again, putting words into other people's mouths.
And then complaining when others do it to you, still?
figures.
It's YOU, constantly repeating that there is Right and Left, and that's all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
Says the absolutist that can't admit that anyone mentioned in any of the posts in this thread are on the Left, escept for maybe Stalin and a few other freaks like him.

Pot, meet the darkest end of the Cosmos.


You are saying that YOU are not a Red?
That would be very funny, considering how you have already said that only those who control the means of production and distribution can be Socialists, and apparently nobody is really a Leftist... except you, apparently.
And how those people can be on the Left ? Do they want to return the means of production to the people ? Do they support the worker's rights ? What they did to be called Left ? Absolutely nothing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
As foot-soldiers?
Hah!
No shortage of red-blooded young men ready to tear into our enemies here. However, in Germany and other parts of the EU, men have become so feminized that they can't protect their own women from Rapeugees even in the most public settings.
The big debate in Germany and Denmark was about how evil it was that men urinate standing up, and how they should have to sit when doing that... just like women.
Yeah, I'm sure they would make great soldiers!

Face it, no EU Army would last ten minutes against the Russians, even with cannon-fodeer imported from Africa and the Middle East.
Just forget about it.
Reading this is extremly similar to reading Russian Stalinists. Catch an event about Europe, extrapolate it to the whole and make the conclusion about how things are going badly there and how Europeans are weak and stupid. Why care about reality when you can make a picture to suit your view ? Only the conclusion is different. They believe it's happening because Europe is going right and you believe Europe is going left. But both you and them stick to 50's refusing to advance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
Yeah, the Yemen sure is known for technical know-how... NOT.
Abrams tanks annihilated Soviet-made tanks all over the world, especially in Iraq.
I was there and saw it happen. In one afternoon of driving I counted 138 destroyed AFVs, not a single one of which was a US vehicle.
It seems you have reading difficulties. I didn't talked about Yemen and know-how. I talked about Yemen using ancient Soviet weapons destroying new Abrams.

Iraq was the only place where Abrams fought against Soviet-made tanks. Soviet-amde tanks who were 1 or 2 generations older, without new stuff found in other armies, with the air dominated by US aviation.

Now you gave them the Abrams and they lost them to ISIS who don't have tanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
So, we just have to disagree.
I think that a Government by the people, of the people, for the people is a good thing.
You don't.
I certainly do. But how your vision fits in US reality ? Majority of the people voted for Hillary, still it was Trump who get in the office. And how Trump or any other US president is related to commun folk ? In their personal skyscrapers, with billions on accounts and plenty of people under orders, they're as far from commun citizen as it possible to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
Really? Well, we sure don't have much of a handle on that, do we?
Why should Russia even care?
I've already made the point that Russia would be better off avoiding all these foreign entanglements.
They sure didn't do the old USSR any good.
Russia should care since your contry likes to place missiles and troops close to Russian borders. Before it was in the middle of Germany, now it's 1000 km closer. Before Eastern European cannon-fodder was in service of Russia. Now they will be used against it. So yeah, those are grat reasons to care.
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  #142  
Old 16 Jul 17, 16:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
You should have read something before posting nonsense.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/23/b...r-scandal.html

11 millions of cars worldwide and only 500 000 in USA. You're greatly overestimating the importance of USA in this fraud.

And as this document shows, the difference between US and EU standards isn't that important.---
But they ARE different, thus my point.
Nothing there contradicts anything I said, it also shows that the Greens are dedicated to destroying production.
Period.
And an article a couple of years old only shows that there were a whole bunch of other people jumping in when the Obama regime came down on VW. Hey, with all that money on the table, why not?

These "standards" become more restrictive every few years, and there is NO word on what the end-point is. None of the Watermelons (Green on the outside, Red all through the insides) in charge of that movement will ever tell you what the end-point of all this Environmentalism is exactly. They just keep making cars more expensive, difficult to own and discouraging to keep.
I am far from the only one to surmise that they on the Hard-Left don't want the average Joe Citizen to own a car at all.
It is perfectly fine for movie-stars and Politicians to ride around in Limos and Private Jets, but woe to the little guy ... only busses and trains for us!

What Pollution standards would be good enough for you guys for the next 50 years?

And no, I don't count all this noise about Solar and Wind being positive for us. Clouds and lack of wind mean no power, and there are vast tracts of Wind turbines that are not producing at all. They tend to wear out or be abandoned long before the cost of production is even equalled by the energy they produced, let alone exceeded.
And then there is the environmental damage done by the production and then scrapping of the batteries in electric cars... talk about counter-productive!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
What misery ? Under socialism everyone had a roof over head, access to medecine, work and education.
Hah!
Current Events- have you ever heard of Venezuela?
That's socialism for you.

A leaky roof, garbage medicine dealt out by slovenly doctors who couldn't care less, work that you are not allowed to leave and education mandated by the State... in fact all of it is mandated by bureaucrats ... this isn't just the legacy, central planning is the stated aim of Socialism.
In the name of fair distribution, they succumb to the same greed that so many other people do. The Key Difference is this; when they have the backing of the Government's hired guns, the potential for abuse is literally unlimited.

And here is the other reason why Central Planning is always destined to fail;
Imagine a couple of soccer teams having a match- one side is playing like usual, we call that the Capitalist side. The other side's players are restricted to moving at the direction of one man with a loudspeaker. "Okay, #19; run forwards 10 meters, turn and stop. #22, block that kick!" And so on.
They wouldn't stand a chance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
Almost all improvements in human society were done by Left wing politics: paid vacations, women's rights, 40 hours weeks, maternity leave, etc... Real life without Left is Middle Ages where the elites have everyting and the workers nothing. But since you don't have much of this stuff in US, I can understand why it's difficult foir you to get it.
So, you attribute every single positive thing that has ever happened in this world to Leftism, and every negative thing to the Right.
Who is totally dogmatic NOW, eh?

Liberals are responsible for all of those good things you list above.
You need to look up the true meaning of that word, you will find that it is the absolute reverse of Leftism as practiced today.
And while the good things are nice to have, once again, where is the Goal line here? It always seem to shift farther and farther until anyone working for a living can only be seen as a sucker, and those milking the system while doing nothing productive are the smart ones.

And for the record, are you really saying that if it were left up to the Right, they everyone would be living as they were in the Dark Ages?
Are you saying that none of the technological and social advancements of the last 500 years were the doing of anyone at all on the Right?

That is not just asinine, it is also silly coming from someone who's definition of people who should be allowed to call themselves Leftists is as narrow as a razor blade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
Read about what Left wing is. As private owners of means of produc tion, they certainly cannot belong to the Left wing.
... as I was saying.

*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
It's YOU, constantly repeating that there is Right and Left, and that's all.
No, that is the context of this one discussion.
Unlike you, the OP, I am trying to stay on subject.

And BTW; did you know that General MacArthur, noted life-long Republican, was the man that called the shots during the post-war rebuilding of Japan? That man saw an imbalanced society mired in the past and did the sensible thing; he Liberalized the place. He abolished the power of Noble tittles (something that we in America have been doing since 1776) introduced land-reform and even introduced real Trade Unions.

You see, there is something called a good balance.
This is at odds with the constant march in one direction, and one only. The constant push to the Left is the same as a constant push in any other direction. It is the same as a Horse with blinders on always charging away... sooner or later, you are going over a cliff.

I have posted like this before, but I have never seen you post in any way that indicates that you think anyone outside the Left (even your restricted definition of it) are good for anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
And how those people can be on the Left ? Do they want to return the means of production to the people ? Do they support the worker's rights ? What they did to be called Left ? Absolutely nothing.
Their own words, deeds and how they contribute money in elections tell the tale.
Even if they don't pass your purity Test, they are what they are.

You keep on insisting that reality must conform to your own notions. By this alone, I know you to be a Leftist.
The rest of us try to learn from reality, and adjust our perceptions accordingly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
Reading this is extremly similar to reading Russian Stalinists. Catch an event about Europe, extrapolate it to the whole and make the conclusion about how things are going badly there and how Europeans are weak and stupid. Why care about reality when you can make a picture to suit your view ? Only the conclusion is different. They believe it's happening because Europe is going right and you believe Europe is going left. But both you and them stick to 50's refusing to advance.
How convoluted is this going to get?!

You are taking everything negative about yourself and trying to project it onto me.... do you work in Television by any chance?

I could flood this page with YouTube vids that prove my point, I could repeat my assertion that Stalin was worse than Hitler with the body-counts and global reach of destruction, and I could even post that famous pic of Miss EU... the one with the beard.

But come on, all you are doing now is taking everything I said about you and trying to flip it back at me.
My only answer to that is; Grow Up, while you still can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
It seems you have reading difficulties. I didn't talked about Yemen and know-how. I talked about Yemen using ancient Soviet weapons destroying new Abrams.....
Sure, okay, but since you are not very military, I have to remind you of a few things;
A Tank is just a Tank. No matter how nicely you make it, there is only so much it can do.
The Germans should have known that, but instead they made the Tigers.

I'd like to know who it was that told you that the M-1 was supposed to be perfect in every way and totally invulnerable to everything, that guy is a fool because there is no such thing.
I know that about two dozen have been destroyed in combat, at least, and about 500 have been lost in one way or another (including friendly fire or those sabotaged to prevent them falling into enemy hands) since it entered service in the 1980s. The design is 40 years old, and about 10,000 were produced.
Shall we look at how that compares to the other tank types out there, or has this already gone far enough off the rails?

And BTW; this goes back to the very Communist habit of sending masses of poorly armed men out to fight your wars. How many Jihadists went running up with a satchel-charge towards these tanks, only to be killed without accomplishing anything except a little scorched paint?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
I certainly do. But how your vision fits in US reality ? Majority of the people voted for Hillary, still it was Trump who get in the office.
The electoral college is our way of limiting the influence of any one corrupted group of vote-counters. The result; Hillary was unable to cheat Trump the same way she cheated Bernie Sanders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
And how Trump or any other US president is related to commun folk ?
Because he has not spent his adult life inside the Beltway Bubble... the Court of the new Aristocracy.
Washington D.C. has become disconnected from the population as a whole, and we hate that. Trump may be someone that you think should not exist (Billionaire) but even so, he is light-years closer to us than the rest of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
Russia should care since your contry likes to place missiles and troops close to Russian borders. Before it was in the middle of Germany, now it's 1000 km closer. Before Eastern European cannon-fodder was in service of Russia. Now they will be used against it. So yeah, those are grat reasons to care.
You just jumped from a point about overseas bases in distant places like the Middle East and the Pacific to Eastern Europe.
It is always going to be going sideways with you, isn't it?

Okay, let me make this clear; I want us (Americans) out of Europe.
If Poland wants some defensive missiles, fine. Let them buy them, let them figure out how to use them.
NATO should have been abolished 20 years ago, that fiasco in Bosnia should have been it's epitaph. I think it is being manipulated and Bush & Obama just let it happen. Trump's hard line with those European nations gives me hope that we can be un-entagled, hopefully soon.
I also think that we should dump the Middle East, let Russian and China take over there, and the harsher they are about it, the better.

Clear enough?
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  #143  
Old 16 Jul 17, 18:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
But they ARE different, thus my point.
Nothing there contradicts anything I said, it also shows that the Greens are dedicated to destroying production.
Period.
And an article a couple of years old only shows that there were a whole bunch of other people jumping in when the Obama regime came down on VW. Hey, with all that money on the table, why not?

These "standards" become more restrictive every few years, and there is NO word on what the end-point is. None of the Watermelons (Green on the outside, Red all through the insides) in charge of that movement will ever tell you what the end-point of all this Environmentalism is exactly. They just keep making cars more expensive, difficult to own and discouraging to keep.
I am far from the only one to surmise that they on the Hard-Left don't want the average Joe Citizen to own a car at all.
It is perfectly fine for movie-stars and Politicians to ride around in Limos and Private Jets, but woe to the little guy ... only busses and trains for us!

What Pollution standards would be good enough for you guys for the next 50 years?

And no, I don't count all this noise about Solar and Wind being positive for us. Clouds and lack of wind mean no power, and there are vast tracts of Wind turbines that are not producing at all. They tend to wear out or be abandoned long before the cost of production is even equalled by the energy they produced, let alone exceeded.
And then there is the environmental damage done by the production and then scrapping of the batteries in electric cars... talk about counter-productive!
Greens aren't dedicated to destroying production. They are dedicated to reduce the impact of the production.

Nope, they don't want to get rid of the cars. They only want to have a better use of transports for less pollution and ease of circulation. There is no need to ride a car when a bus can take much more people with far less pollution per person.

You can observe what happens when there are no Greens in China for exemple. In big cities you can walk on the streets without a mask. The Great Smog of London is a well known European exemple of this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
Hah!
Current Events- have you ever heard of Venezuela?
That's socialism for you.

A leaky roof, garbage medicine dealt out by slovenly doctors who couldn't care less, work that you are not allowed to leave and education mandated by the State... in fact all of it is mandated by bureaucrats ... this isn't just the legacy, central planning is the stated aim of Socialism.
In the name of fair distribution, they succumb to the same greed that so many other people do. The Key Difference is this; when they have the backing of the Government's hired guns, the potential for abuse is literally unlimited.

And here is the other reason why Central Planning is always destined to fail;
Imagine a couple of soccer teams having a match- one side is playing like usual, we call that the Capitalist side. The other side's players are restricted to moving at the direction of one man with a loudspeaker. "Okay, #19; run forwards 10 meters, turn and stop. #22, block that kick!" And so on.
They wouldn't stand a chance.
I was banned from Current Events so I don't know what the talk is about. I'm not interested in what's going on there, so will now comment on that.

I can comment on Europe on the other side. In majority of domains we get it better than in USA. Lower crime rate despite all the stories with migrants, a better medecine where you don't have bills costing like your house, lower number of homeless, etc...

Central Planning is not destined to fail. Plenty of areas cannot exist without a central planning. Military, police, transportation, medecine and so all, are all more efficient and less costly with a Central Planning. The only domain where it's bad, it's the production of consumer goods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
So, you attribute every single positive thing that has ever happened in this world to Leftism, and every negative thing to the Right.
Who is totally dogmatic NOW, eh?

Liberals are responsible for all of those good things you list above.
You need to look up the true meaning of that word, you will find that it is the absolute reverse of Leftism as practiced today.
And while the good things are nice to have, once again, where is the Goal line here? It always seem to shift farther and farther until anyone working for a living can only be seen as a sucker, and those milking the system while doing nothing productive are the smart ones.
Since when people like Popular Front in France or Communists in Russia were Liberals ?
The goal of the Left is to don't have people doing nothing productive and living from other's work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
And for the record, are you really saying that if it were left up to the Right, they everyone would be living as they were in the Dark Ages?
Are you saying that none of the technological and social advancements of the last 500 years were the doing of anyone at all on the Right?

That is not just asinine, it is also silly coming from someone who's definition of people who should be allowed to call themselves Leftists is as narrow as a razor blade.
Yep, if it was left to the Right, the pople would live like in Middle Ages or at best like in the end of XIXth century. Right is by definition opposed to social benefits and support conservatism.




Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
Their own words, deeds and how they contribute money in elections tell the tale.
Even if they don't pass your purity Test, they are what they are.

You keep on insisting that reality must conform to your own notions. By this alone, I know you to be a Leftist.
The rest of us try to learn from reality, and adjust our perceptions accordingly.
Ad what they do exactly which can be considered as Leftist ? Are they improving the lifes of their workers and give up the means of production ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
How convoluted is this going to get?!

You are taking everything negative about yourself and trying to project it onto me.... do you work in Television by any chance?

I could flood this page with YouTube vids that prove my point, I could repeat my assertion that Stalin was worse than Hitler with the body-counts and global reach of destruction, and I could even post that famous pic of Miss EU... the one with the beard.

But come on, all you are doing now is taking everything I said about you and trying to flip it back at me.
My only answer to that is; Grow Up, while you still can.
Idea that Stalin was worse than Hitler is pure BS. If someone fell down the stairs in Stalin's time, the Right would attribute it to Stalin and Communism in general. And no, there is no big difference between you and Stalinists in question.

1. Both you and them believe that the grass was greener in the past.
2. Both you and them consider the Liberals are the main enemies. You and them see them everywhere, under every bad there is a liberal wanting to harm US/Russia. All those who disagree with you instantly turn into liberals.
3. Both you and them believe that Europeans are morron, ungrateful for saving them every time and now wanting to destroy themselves with refugees.
4. Both you and them like oil, heavy industry and deslike the Greens.
5. Both you and them are nationalist.

The list can continue. The main difference is that you believes in private control of everything and they believe in complete state control. For the rest it's almost the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
Sure, okay, but since you are not very military, I have to remind you of a few things;
A Tank is just a Tank. No matter how nicely you make it, there is only so much it can do.
The Germans should have known that, but instead they made the Tigers.

I'd like to know who it was that told you that the M-1 was supposed to be perfect in every way and totally invulnerable to everything, that guy is a fool because there is no such thing.
I know that about two dozen have been destroyed in combat, at least, and about 500 have been lost in one way or another (including friendly fire or those sabotaged to prevent them falling into enemy hands) since it entered service in the 1980s. The design is 40 years old, and about 10,000 were produced.
Shall we look at how that compares to the other tank types out there, or has this already gone far enough off the rails?
It will difficult ot compare it to other tank types since US didn't used in parallel a different tank. We should only compare stuff in similar situations, crewed by men with similar training and tactics. That's why it's stupid to call Soviet stuff inferior.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
And BTW; this goes back to the very Communist habit of sending masses of poorly armed men out to fight your wars. How many Jihadists went running up with a satchel-charge towards these tanks, only to be killed without accomplishing anything except a little scorched paint?
Where did you took the idea that it was a Communist habit ? When US entered WWI, you also sent masses of men to be slaughtered. You absolutely fail to grasp the difference between the countries. USA are from the the end of XIXth century the most industrially developped country of the world. It's not the fault of Communists that they started in dirt poor countries without any industry. Still they developped Russia to a superpower just like China is becoming one in his turn. Not bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
The electoral college is our way of limiting the influence of any one corrupted group of vote-counters. The result; Hillary was unable to cheat Trump the same way she cheated Bernie Sanders.
Getting more votes is called cheating now ? Electoral college is exactly the way for the gerrymandering and exclude a large part of population from the voting unlike in a direct system where every vote counts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
Because he has not spent his adult life inside the Beltway Bubble... the Court of the new Aristocracy.
Washington D.C. has become disconnected from the population as a whole, and we hate that. Trump may be someone that you think should not exist (Billionaire) but even so, he is light-years closer to us than the rest of them.
Closer in what ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
You just jumped from a point about overseas bases in distant places like the Middle East and the Pacific to Eastern Europe.
It is always going to be going sideways with you, isn't it?

Okay, let me make this clear; I want us (Americans) out of Europe.
If Poland wants some defensive missiles, fine. Let them buy them, let them figure out how to use them.
NATO should have been abolished 20 years ago, that fiasco in Bosnia should have been it's epitaph. I think it is being manipulated and Bush & Obama just let it happen. Trump's hard line with those European nations gives me hope that we can be un-entagled, hopefully soon.
I also think that we should dump the Middle East, let Russian and China take over there, and the harsher they are about it, the better.

Clear enough?
When it will arrive, we could talk about it. I don't see NATO being abolished anyway soon. Trump isn't the one to make decisions.
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Old 16 Jul 17, 18:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
Okay, let me make this clear; I want us (Americans) out of Europe.
If Poland wants some defensive missiles, fine. Let them buy them, let them figure out how to use them.
Well, Russia and China also complain when defensive systems are sold to countries close to them, so what you're saying is still not good enough for them. You're still trying to "surround" them. Complete pull-out and non-involvement is what they want.
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Old 16 Jul 17, 19:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperial View Post
Well, Russia and China also complain when defensive systems are sold to countries close to them, so what you're saying is still not good enough for them. You're still trying to "surround" them. Complete pull-out and non-involvement is what they want.
What are those defensive systems ?
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Old 17 Jul 17, 00:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmf01 View Post
According to feminist logic women should do it standing up...
I think that the only thing that explains those Feminazis is an insane urge to self-destruct. Daddy-ssues, most likely.
They constantly berate men of their own kind, but never have anything to say about the brutality of Moslem men towards women, even when their own friends and neighbors are the women being abused.

On a related note -
Quote:
Why is Western man being clubbed in his own capitals by invaders so incompetent they would expire without his charity?...
The intellect is plainly still operative, though his critical instincts are not. Something has disabled the innate visceral impulses required for survival of everything from man to mole rats. But how do you keep a people from positive adaptivity who have navigated every environment, plague, and predator for over four hundred centuries?
https://kakistocracyblog.wordpress.c...n-new-orleans/
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Old 17 Jul 17, 01:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
Greens aren't dedicated to destroying production. They are dedicated to reduce the impact of the production..
Even if that means making production more difficult.
Yes or no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
Nope, they don't want to get rid of the cars. They only want to have a better use of transports for less pollution and ease of circulation. There is no need to ride a car when a bus can take much more people with far less pollution per person..
See, there you go proving yourself wrong in the same post.
Again.
"We don't want to take your cars, but you should not have them anyway and here are all the reasons why"... and then they go and blow Billions in tax-payer money on weird boon-doggles like Light Rail, Bike paths, and jack up the price of cars & Gas until they make cars so expensive that only the Rish can have them.
Bravo.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
You can observe what happens when there are no Greens in China for exemple. In big cities you can walk on the streets without a mask. The Great Smog of London is a well known European exemple of this..
Then WHY is there nothing at all from the Greens about going after the worst offenders on Earth, like China and India?
WHY?
Too afraid, maybe, those Communists deal harshly with protestors, always have.

But I think that the reason they constantly demand more and more with absolute perfection being their only yardstick, is to crush the West, to ruin us and make us so desperate that we would accept Marxism.
AntiFa makes no bones about that being their goal, why be coy about it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
I was banned from Current Events so I don't know what the talk is about. I'm not interested in what's going on there, so will now comment on that..
Heh heh, of course you aren't interested in the most recent and total failure of Socialism... but I thought you were supposed to be well-informed about the world and what is going on out there...
What's up with that?

Here, let me help you out;

https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...-apart/481755/

https://www.thecipherbrief.com/artic...ring-edge-1091

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/01/americ...sts/index.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
I can comment on Europe on the other side. In majority of domains we get it better than in USA. Lower crime rate despite all the stories with migrants, a better medecine where you don't have bills costing like your house, lower number of homeless, etc....
Your income tax is triple the rate we have here, so people can afford their own insurance... used to, until Obama made the cost explode and the value to crash. Didn't know that? Figures...

BTW- how the hell so you get banned from one section of a website? I never heard of any such thing.
All or nothing, that is the rule I know.
More lies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
Central Planning is not destined to fail. Plenty of areas cannot exist without a central planning. Military, police, transportation, medecine and so all, are all more efficient and less costly with a Central Planning. The only domain where it's bad, it's the production of consumer goods..
Production is exactly what we were talking about.
More of the sideways routine?
You are getting dull here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
Since when people like Popular Front in France or Communists in Russia were Liberals ?.
HELL no, never!
What good things are you trying to ascribe to those goons now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
The goal of the Left is to don't have people doing nothing productive and living from other's work..
This sentence makes no grammatical sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
Yep, if it was left to the Right, the pople would live like in Middle Ages or at best like in the end of XIXth century. Right is by definition opposed to social benefits and support conservatism..
- the first modern universities were invented by the Church.
- Henry Ford was no Leftist, but he did wonders for production and he paid his men a fair wage because he thought they should be able to afford the cars they were making.


Look at this list and tell me who you think the Conservatives and the Liberals were-
http://mashable.com/2015/12/20/socia.../#E_pFMN72m8qU


Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
Ad what they do exactly which can be considered as Leftist ? Are they improving the lifes of their workers and give up the means of production ?.
You want them to give up their property, the businesses they built and turn that all over to ... who, exactly?
Stealing all that stuff never even works out in the end, everyone knows that. and you call ME the Stalinist?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
Idea that Stalin was worse than Hitler is pure BS. If someone fell down the stairs in Stalin's time, the Right would attribute it to Stalin and Communism in general. And no, there is no big difference between you and Stalinists in question. .
I'm starting to wonder how far to take this. Honestly, you are starting to sound a little unhinged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
1. Both you and them believe that the grass was greener in the past..
HAH!

No, it wasn't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9QJNMRQtzI

The one thing that I have a problem with is all this Social Engineering, this weird foolishness that you SJWs keep coming up with to divide everyone against each other, separate us all and then do the usual divide and conquer.

The Left is constantly trying to make everything weirder and nastier, so that they will seem to be more normal and acceptable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
2. Both you and them consider the Liberals are the main enemies. You and them see them everywhere, under every bad there is a liberal wanting to harm US/Russia. All those who disagree with you instantly turn into liberals..
I already said that I think that real Liberalism is a GOOD thing. You are just throwing a hissy-fit because I am the one that does not fit neatly into your stereotypes.

That must be why you keep going after me personally when I go after your ideology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
3. Both you and them believe that Europeans are morron, ungrateful for saving them every time and now wanting to destroy themselves with refugees..
Stalin thinks the refugee crisis is a big deal?

The behavior of the European Left is highly destructive, unless you are an anarchist.
Careful, old man. Communists love to use anarchists to seize power, but once they have it the anarchists are the very first ones they kill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
4. Both you and them like oil, heavy industry and deslike the Greens..
In this post, you champion how the Stalinists Industrialized Russia... you basically, you are talking out of both sides of your mouth at the same time.
Again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
5. Both you and them are nationalist..
What in the world is wrong with being proud of your country, and talking back to the people who are trying to tear it down with shoddy propaganda?
What is wrong with seeing the good in your own nation instead of navel-gazing endlessly about its flaws?
What the hell is wrong with being more concerned about the problems faced by your own country than other countries, enemy countries included?

THAT is Nationalism as I know it and practice it, and I make no apology for this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
The list can continue. The main difference is that you believes in private control of everything and they believe in complete state control. For the rest it's almost the same..
See above.
and isn't it cute, how every time I prove your accusations wrong, you never even blink, you just pivot to the next wild accusation

By all means, keep on serving them up, I love smacking them right back down again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
It will difficult ot compare it to other tank types since US didn't used in parallel a different tank. We should only compare stuff in similar situations, crewed by men with similar training and tactics. That's why it's stupid to call Soviet stuff inferior..
It is, and it is by design.
It is a matter of priorities, and they are changing. The T-34 defeated the Panzers because it was simpler, therefore reliable, and available in far greater numbers. It was not spectacular in any way, but it was good in all ways.

"Quality has a quality all it's own."

Modern Russia, with less than 150 million people now, is adopting a different strategy and making some wonderful tanks now.
Like I keep telling you, the world keeps changing, much more quickly than a theory from 1848 can keep up with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
Where did you took the idea that it was a Communist habit ? When US entered WWI, you also sent masses of men to be slaughtered.
And their kit was some of the best in the world. They were not lacking guns, artillery (they even had Railroad guns for support) and the slaughter was due to inexperience.
Just like everyone else was when they first got involved in WW1.
And unlike the Germans, they got enough to eat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
You absolutely fail to grasp the difference between the countries. USA are from the the end of XIXth century the most industrially developped country of the world. It's not the fault of Communists that they started in dirt poor countries without any industry. Still they developped Russia to a superpower just like China is becoming one in his turn. Not bad..
Un-industrialized nations have lower educational standards. THAT is why the Communists got a foothold that they could exploit.
Aside from Russia, no European nations were taken by Communists at the head of a popular uprising. Eastern Europe was occupied by the Red Army and made Communist by force.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
Getting more votes is called cheating now ? Electoral college is exactly the way for the gerrymandering and exclude a large part of population from the voting unlike in a direct system where every vote counts..
No, it counter-acts Gerrymandering.
And if it was such abad thing, the Democrats would be working like hell to emininate it.
So far its all hot-air, they like it too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
Closer in what ?.
Living in the real world, as opposed to inside the palace gates.

Trump may be rich, but he is a total outsider as far as the power elite go.
And they treat him that way, as anyone that sees the news here knows all too well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
When it will arrive, we could talk about it. I don't see NATO being abolished anyway soon. Trump isn't the one to make decisions.
He can get us started on the big pull-out.
Hey... I thought you would be in favor of such a thing, right?
What changed your mind?
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Old 17 Jul 17, 06:04
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I think I will not answer to that since I'm loosing the track of all parts and it's already far from the original purpose.
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Old 17 Jul 17, 14:22
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Originally Posted by Imperial View Post
You're still trying to "surround" them. Complete pull-out and non-involvement is what they want.
No, I don't think so. And it's not a realistic scenario anyway. And you can make ironic remarks about "surround" as much as you want but the fact is that it was NATO that moved to the Russian borders not the other way around.
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Old 17 Jul 17, 23:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
I think I will not answer to that since I'm loosing the track of all parts and it's already far from the original purpose.
You thought that would happen to me first, eh?

Well, before you go, I had a couple of questions;

What do you mean by "give the means of production to the workers"?
I have no idea how that would apply to a worker in a factory with 1,000 people that is connected to a corporation with 10,000 employees, or how it affects the Griller in a MacDonalds that will probably be gone in 3 weeks or the guy changing the oil in a garage he works at on the weekends.

And honestly, who are these "Stalinists" ?
Do they have a website?
And how could they even be relevant when Putin has beaten the Communist party so badly so many times?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyom_A View Post
No, I don't think so. And it's not a realistic scenario anyway. And you can make ironic remarks about "surround" as much as you want but the fact is that it was NATO that moved to the Russian borders not the other way around.
I never used to think much of that, I just figured that the old Republics were eager to get away from a Moscow that no longer exists.
Now, with all the creepy strangeness coming out of Brussels, its like 1812 wants to happen all over again.

At least the US has a chance to avoid getting sucked into it again -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09J48cfxtRE

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