HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Military/History Related Hobbies > Research, Reference and Historical Study > Science

Notices and Announcements

Science Discussions about hard science.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 13 Jul 17, 14:59
Half Pint John's Avatar
Half Pint John Half Pint John is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: John (NO LABELS)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Stuttgart Germany
Posts: 46,678
Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+]  [+1]
Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
VERY interesting

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/07/12/mi...uel/index.html
__________________
"Ask not what your country can do for you"

[COLOR=Blue][I]Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.
Reply With Quote
Facebook Connect and Magazine Promotions

World War II Magazine
$26.95

Armchair General Magazine
$26.95
Military History Magazine
$26.95
  #2  
Old 13 Jul 17, 16:00
OpanaPointer's Avatar
OpanaPointer OpanaPointer is online now
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 11,630
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
Yes, links are fascinating.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 13 Jul 17, 16:21
G David Bock's Avatar
G David Bock G David Bock is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: G David Bock
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bellingham, Washington
Posts: 15,033
G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
It's so difficult and time consuming to do a copy-paste to give a clue ...


(CNN)The aviation industry is a major source of greenhouse gas emissions. In 2011, aviation contributed around 3% of Australia's emissions. Despite improvements in efficiency, global aviation emissions are expected to grow 70% by 2020 from 2005. While the industry is seeking new renewable fuel sources, growing biofuels takes up valuable land and water that could be otherwise used to grow food.

But what if you could grow biofuels on land nobody wants, using just seawater and sunlight, and produce food at the same time?
That's just what a new project in Abu Dhabi is seeking to do. The Integrated Seawater Energy and Agriculture System, or ISEAS, will grow sustainable food and aviation fuel in the desert, using seawater and sunshine, in a way that is eminently transferable to similar arid regions around the world.
...
__________________
Whiskey for my men, and beer for my horses.
TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
Bock's First Law of History: The Past shapes the Present, which forms the Future. *
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 14 Jul 17, 17:10
T. A. Gardner's Avatar
T. A. Gardner T. A. Gardner is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: T. A. Gardner
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 33,878
T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
A few points:

Who cares, unless you actually believe the Climate scientists who haven't gotten a single model to predict the climate right 10 years from now yet, and the ones screaming "Gorebal Warming!" have been the worst at over estimating things.
So, it's irrelevant to jet exhaust stuff. Besides, jet contrails create more potential warming than the exhaust gasses do...

Second, it is an interesting project on its own. This could be useful in a number of other places simply to increase coastline stability, maybe create a local industry, and improve soil and water conditions.

Last... Are you sure this isn't "fake news?" After all, it's the Creative News Network that wrote the article...
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 15 Jul 17, 05:03
Half Pint John's Avatar
Half Pint John Half Pint John is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: John (NO LABELS)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Stuttgart Germany
Posts: 46,678
Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+]  [+1]
Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
What are the contrails formed by?


Contrails are line-shaped clouds produced by aircraft engine exhaust, typically at aircraft cruise altitudes several miles above the Earth's surface.

They don't have to be from jet engines.
__________________
"Ask not what your country can do for you"

[COLOR=Blue][I]Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 15 Jul 17, 10:25
T. A. Gardner's Avatar
T. A. Gardner T. A. Gardner is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: T. A. Gardner
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 33,878
T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
What are the contrails formed by?
Water vapor in the atmosphere that his heated and mixed with particulates in the exhaust (eg., solid particles of carbon).


Quote:
Contrails are line-shaped clouds produced by aircraft engine exhaust, typically at aircraft cruise altitudes several miles above the Earth's surface.

They don't have to be from jet engines.
Altocumulus and Cirrocumulus clouds are formed by dust particles in the upper atmosphere. They occur naturally. Contrails from aircraft have only been forming since aircraft started flying at roughly 25,000 feet and above. This has been occurring with greater frequency since about 1935 or so and really started in the 1940's with WW 2.



Since water vapor in the form of clouds is an exponentially better greenhouse gas than CO2 or CH4, these contrails now form a major source of warming. Climate scientists for the most part ignore or minimize this since it doesn't fit the Progressive agenda for carbon to force changes in energy production and such.
The solution for contrails is simply having aircraft fly at altitudes where they don't create them. That has a minimal cost and is not going to provide some major source of social change that the carbon agenda does.

9/11 was the bellwether for this. The NOAA got to study the US without contrails for several days and compare that to normal days with contrails. The results shocked them. Contrails are a major source of warming, and might even eclipse CO2 entirely as one.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/space/contrail-effect.html

Quote:
In a study published in 2004, for example, Minnis and colleagues reported that contrails are capable of increasing average surface temperatures sufficiently to account for a warming trend in the U.S. between 1975 and 1994. But some climatologists believe Minnis and his colleagues may have overestimated the contrail warming effect.
Even if Minnis's estimates are correct, other climate experts feel that any warming from contrails is not something to fret about. In a study published in 2005, James Hansen of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York, and colleagues ran models that increased the contrail coverage in Minnis's study by a factor of five. Even with this significant increase, Hansen's team found that global mean temperature change was in the neighborhood of 0.03C (0.05F)a minute amount.
Yet, as I said, the effect is largely ignored because it isn't funded and doesn't fit the Gorebal Warming political agenda. This is the same Hansen that's been found to falsify data to get the "right" results on CO2...
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 15 Jul 17, 12:15
wolfhnd's Avatar
wolfhnd wolfhnd is offline
Lieutenant General
United_States
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: KC
Posts: 3,401
wolfhnd is on a distinguished road [300] wolfhnd is on a distinguished road [300] wolfhnd is on a distinguished road [300] wolfhnd is on a distinguished road [300] wolfhnd is on a distinguished road [300] wolfhnd is on a distinguished road [300] wolfhnd is on a distinguished road [300] wolfhnd is on a distinguished road [300] wolfhnd is on a distinguished road [300] wolfhnd is on a distinguished road [300] wolfhnd is on a distinguished road [300] wolfhnd is on a distinguished road [300] wolfhnd is on a distinguished road [300]
Modestly may have been more appropriate and yes CNN is the king of fake news.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 19 Jul 17, 21:49
Pirate-Drakk's Avatar
Pirate-Drakk Pirate-Drakk is offline
Major General
Pirate
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive Summer Campaign 
Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: S. Krause
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: East Lansing, Michigan
Posts: 2,658
Pirate-Drakk is on a distinguished road [300] Pirate-Drakk is on a distinguished road [300] Pirate-Drakk is on a distinguished road [300] Pirate-Drakk is on a distinguished road [300] Pirate-Drakk is on a distinguished road [300] Pirate-Drakk is on a distinguished road [300] Pirate-Drakk is on a distinguished road [300] Pirate-Drakk is on a distinguished road [300] Pirate-Drakk is on a distinguished road [300] Pirate-Drakk is on a distinguished road [300] Pirate-Drakk is on a distinguished road [300] Pirate-Drakk is on a distinguished road [300] Pirate-Drakk is on a distinguished road [300] Pirate-Drakk is on a distinguished road [300] Pirate-Drakk is on a distinguished road [300]
As indicated by the contrail issue, Water vapor so completely dominates Earth's climate that everything else is in the measurement noise. CO2 and Water generated by humans is in the noise of that noise.

Water makes clouds that cause heating at night and cooling by day. Cloud physics is not well understood. Water makes ice and ice reflects light causing cooling. If the ice melts, the Earth will tend to heat until all the ice is melted (sound familiar?) or other effects dominate the feedback cycle that started (mysteriously) 15,000 years ago.


The difference between a desert and a jungle is WATER but the IPCC doesn't include water as a human created greenhouse gas. Hence, contrails don't exist as a climate effect by their arbitrary definition.
__________________
Battles are dangerous affairs... Wang Hsi
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 15:15.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.