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American Age of Discovery, Colonization, Revolution, & Expansion Military history of North America. .

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  #1  
Old 04 Feb 17, 11:37
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Effect of Religion

...I was interested in the effects of missionaries/etc on the indigenous peoples of North, Central and South America
...did the missionaries/religion help?
...did any indigenous people want European religion?
...would they have been better off without the missionaries?
...I have almost no knowledge on the subject and was just curious after seeing the movie The Missionary.....as always it says ''based'' on a true stroy--but that is almost never the case
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  #2  
Old 04 Feb 17, 17:09
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"The Missionary"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin View Post
...I was interested in the effects of missionaries/etc on the indigenous peoples of North, Central and South America
...did the missionaries/religion help?
...did any indigenous people want European religion?
...would they have been better off without the missionaries?
...I have almost no knowledge on the subject and was just curious after seeing the movie The Missionary.....as always it says ''based'' on a true stroy--but that is almost never the case
I'm not sure which "The Missionary" you're referring to, I can only assume it's NOT the Michael Palin movie?

"The Mission", 1986, with De Niro & Irons perhaps?

Here's a little known movie based on a well received historical novel that you might find of interest. "Black Robe" is low budget, and a bit cheesy at times, but worth a look all the same. It deals with the RC Church and First Nations early post-first contact i.e. 1634 in New France/North America; it's not perfect by any means, but "Black Robe" has more historically right, than it does wrong.

You may recognize Lothaire Bluteau in the title role, he's recently featured as King Charles of Francia in the series "Vikings".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Robe_(film)

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Last edited by Marmat; 04 Feb 17 at 18:11..
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  #3  
Old 04 Feb 17, 19:10
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It depends on which time period your talking about.

If your asking about the Spanish ones, it was a terrible time for the locals.

If your asking about modern times its a great thing because they really help the people.
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Old 04 Feb 17, 19:49
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Originally Posted by Bwaha View Post
It depends on which time period your talking about.

If your asking about the Spanish ones, it was a terrible time for the locals.

If your asking about modern times its a great thing because they really help the people.
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Old 10 Sep 17, 10:39
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Old 09 Feb 17, 16:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwaha View Post
It depends on which time period your talking about.

If your asking about the Spanish ones, it was a terrible time for the locals.

If your asking about modern times its a great thing because they really help the people.
Do they? Did anyone specifically ask for help? Missionaries are there solely out of the mistaken belief that local peoples are somehow "better off" after they have been converted to a religion other than their own, and there is absolutely no evidence to support this culturally, and a lot of evidence to show that loss of cultural identity ruins a civilization very quickly.

Missionaries like to believe that they are dong good, but they are hopelessly biased in their estimates, and oddly enough, they object to being converted themselves.
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Old 04 Feb 17, 19:38
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thanks for replies
Marmat...yes the Deniro and Irons one....Irons did a great job IMO....but I also saw Black Robe
..a really ''harsh'' life in the cold climates
Bwaha---I guess it would be the initial missionary contact, if you could call it that
..I thought maybe you guys could tell me in a more concise-quick way instead a lot of research
...I'm guessing the effects were about the 'same' in all the America's ? some good some bad?
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Old 04 Feb 17, 20:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin View Post
thanks for replies
Marmat...yes the Deniro and Irons one....Irons did a great job IMO....but I also saw Black Robe
..a really ''harsh'' life in the cold climates
Bwaha---I guess it would be the initial missionary contact, if you could call it that
..I thought maybe you guys could tell me in a more concise-quick way instead a lot of research
...I'm guessing the effects were about the 'same' in all the America's ? some good some bad?
I'd call the initial period a total disaster for the locals, fubar'd beyond belief. Those Spanish missionaries enslaved many people. It was a bad time for the locals. They died as slaves to the catholic church. A sad moment.

But I don't go with Catholics, I spurn that sect as a evil corruption of the true gospel.

Though I did many catholic girls in my youth.

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Old 04 Feb 17, 20:09
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yes ..my mistake ..i was talking about The Mission...good call

Opana--yes, ...that could be for a lot of these threads, yes?
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Old 05 Feb 17, 10:14
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wow! Bwaha--ha--thanks reply
I'm researching/etc the subject....I need some variety...but it will take a long time to understand the finer points
...interesting in seeing the different cultures 'collide'--and I don't mean that in a good way.....
...here's a quick question--that is one of the reasons I started this thread--
--in the movie and real life, because of the Treaty of Madrid, they wanted the Jesuits and the Guarani to move from the missions/homeland they created??! this seems incredible and ridiculous!--yet not surprising--considering humans
...and they wanted to move them so they wouldn't be in Portuguese territory or control?
...sorry I didn't ask this before....maybe I missed something in the movie about the reasons---although this is the only explanation that makes sense
...we see the colonial powers trying to forcibly move indigenous peoples from their homeland---but I've discussed this in other threads
..I thought Stonewall was into the Native American history?

Last edited by Moulin; 05 Feb 17 at 10:20..
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Old 24 Sep 17, 10:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin View Post
...interesting in seeing the different cultures 'collide'...
Heathen cultures had been stagnant for thousands of years before we civilised them, for example the Seminoles hadn't built a single golf course or marine park in Florida in all that time, so no wonder Gary Cooper took it off 'em in 'Distant Drums'..

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Old 24 Sep 17, 12:25
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Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
Heathen cultures had been stagnant for thousands of years before we civilised them, for example the Seminoles hadn't built a single golf course or marine park in Florida in all that time, so no wonder Gary Cooper took it off 'em in 'Distant Drums'..

Actually Native American culture was highly developed. The problems started when colonists brought in smallpox which utterly decimated the population. The Native Americans us British colonists encountered were the shell shocked essentially post apocalyptic survivors of the pandemic.

Christianity has done good in the Americas. Mexico is definitely better off under Catholicism than it was under Quetzocoatl. But the notion that Native American territory was undeveloped and populated by small patches of tribal cultures surrounded by wilderness is largely a myth. The English exposure to Native Americans was the post disease Fallout version of the culture, not the classical version.
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Old 24 Sep 17, 12:30
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Originally Posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
Actually Native American culture was highly developed. The problems started when colonists brought in smallpox which utterly decimated the population. The Native Americans us British colonists encountered were the shell shocked essentially post apocalyptic survivors of the pandemic.

Christianity has done good in the Americas. Mexico is definitely better off under Catholicism than it was under Quetzocoatl. But the notion that Native American territory was undeveloped and populated by small patches of tribal cultures surrounded by wilderness is largely a myth. The English exposure to Native Americans was the post disease Fallout version of the culture, not the classical version.
Bump. Responding to Spike.
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Old 24 Sep 17, 13:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
Actually Native American culture was highly developed. The problems started when colonists brought in smallpox which utterly decimated the population. The Native Americans us British colonists encountered were the shell shocked essentially post apocalyptic survivors of the pandemic.

Christianity has done good in the Americas. Mexico is definitely better off under Catholicism than it was under Quetzocoatl. But the notion that Native American territory was undeveloped and populated by small patches of tribal cultures surrounded by wilderness is largely a myth. The English exposure to Native Americans was the post disease Fallout version of the culture, not the classical version.
Really? They didn't develop the wheel, though they did independently develop the bow along with other cultures that were much more advanced.

And to which Indian culture are you referring? The Aztecs, the Indians they defeated and enslaved? The Mayans? The Incas? The Woodland Indians of North America? The Plains Indians?

And what of the other Indian tribes in North America that were constantly at war with one another and those tribes that were destroyed in those tribal wars?

The Indian cultures of the Americas were not monolithic.

And how many Woodland and Plains Indians do you believe populated North America when the English, Spanish, and French arrived?
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Old 24 Sep 17, 14:05
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Originally Posted by Massena View Post
Really? They didn't develop the wheel, though they did independently develop the bow along with other cultures that were much more advanced.

And to which Indian culture are you referring? The Aztecs, the Indians they defeated and enslaved? The Mayans? The Incas? The Woodland Indians of North America? The Plains Indians?

And what of the other Indian tribes in North America that were constantly at war with one another and those tribes that were destroyed in those tribal wars?

The Indian cultures of the Americas were not monolithic.

And how many Woodland and Plains Indians do you believe populated North America when the English, Spanish, and French arrived?
I didn't say Native American culture was monolithic. I simply pointed out that it was more developed than pop culture likes to portray. All pre Columbian civilizations had urban centers and higher population density than what English settlers encountered.

Archaeologists have discovered urban centers in almost every region of the Americas. They may not have developed in the same fashion but not every civ follows Sid Meier's tech tree. Nevertheless there is evidence of urban development and higher population density than what we normally envision.
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Last edited by Pirateship1982; 24 Sep 17 at 14:37..
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