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  #76  
Old 06 Sep 17, 03:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
This picture may actually be from one of the numerous training exercises on the Channel & Irish Sea coasts.

The conversation in this thread is focused on the assault waves. They would be inclined to uncover the weapons before coming under fire, In training exercises covering the weapons was be very common as no one wanted all the extra cleaning problems on rifles dunked in swirling sand and saltwater along the beach. In the USMC we did not have bags like these, but did seal up weapons & anything else sensitive for landing craft training.

Subsequent waves, landing after the beach was secured would be inclined to keep the weapons covered until feet dry. But there is not hard & fast rule in this. A lot depends on the whim of the company or platoon/section commander.
Dropping those guys off in waist to chest deep water tells me that the crafts keel was not on sand and they were too far out. Part of the landing craft training manual read, 'As the keel touches sand, down goes the ramp.' I will lean on my opinion though in saying that the craft may have been pulling off as the photo was taken but it still do not explain the guys in chest deep water. lcm1
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  #77  
Old 06 Sep 17, 23:56
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It appears that the landing before beaching may have been intentional.

From this article in The Atlantic:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...-beach/303365/

Quote:
Lieutenant Edward Tidrick in Boat No. 2 cries out: "My God, we're coming in at the right spot, but look at it! No shingle, no wall, no shell holes, no cover. Nothing!"

His men are at the sides of the boat, straining for a view of the target. They stare but say nothing. At exactly 6:36 A.M. ramps are dropped along the boat line and the men jump off in water anywhere from waist deep to higher than a man's head. This is the signal awaited by the Germans atop the bluff. Already pounded by mortars, the floundering line is instantly swept by crossing machine-gun fires from both ends of the beach.
That seems to imply that they arrived at a planned distance from the beach and all dropped their ramps at once, despite the depth. Later in the article it states several times that the tide was coming in.

It's a tough read. A & B companies 116th Inf were annihilated when they landed.
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  #78  
Old 08 Sep 17, 00:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoPref View Post
It appears that the landing before beaching may have been intentional.

From this article in The Atlantic:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...-beach/303365/



That seems to imply that they arrived at a planned distance from the beach and all dropped their ramps at once, despite the depth. Later in the article it states several times that the tide was coming in.

It's a tough read. A & B companies 116th Inf were annihilated when they landed.
No offence to you mate, but the kindest thing I can say about that is they should have followed the tide, why make the poor bastards going ashore, soaking wet as well as less able to avoid gunfire?? They should have gone in as near as possible at the turn of the tide,high or low according to the beaches. lcm1
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  #79  
Old 08 Sep 17, 06:37
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AFAIK they landed at Low tide to avoid the underwater obstacles?!?
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  #80  
Old 08 Sep 17, 10:46
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Originally Posted by Hanov View Post
AFAIK they landed at Low tide to avoid the underwater obstacles?!?
Hi Hanov, It was hardly Low tide because some of them were in water up to there chests, or even more it shows that the landing craft did not beach. lcm1
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  #81  
Old 08 Sep 17, 10:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lcm1 View Post
Hi Hanov, It was hardly Low tide because some of them were in water up to there chests, or even more it shows that the landing craft did not beach. lcm1
The plan was indeed to land at low tide. The landing craft were just too far from the edge of the beach.
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  #82  
Old 08 Sep 17, 11:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
The plan was indeed to land at low tide. The landing craft were just too far from the edge of the beach.
That is what I have been saying! The craft crew did not follow a major rule of beaching, they did not touch bottom on the sand, the craft had a shallow draft and if they did as they were supposed to do the men going ashore would have been unlucky if they got their feet wet. lcm1
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  #83  
Old 08 Sep 17, 12:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lcm1 View Post
That is what I have been saying! The craft crew did not follow a major rule of beaching, they did not touch bottom on the sand, the craft had a shallow draft and if they did as they were supposed to do the men going ashore would have been unlucky if they got their feet wet. lcm1
Yeah, I was just picturing the Heer placing thousands of obstacles designed to stop landing above the high water mark.

BTW, a prof. once asked me why certain obstacles were called "Belgian Gates"?

"Well, they were gates taken from farms in Belgium. Other than that I have no clue."
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  #84  
Old 08 Sep 17, 13:55
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Did anybody say people fighting and dying?
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  #85  
Old 08 Sep 17, 21:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
Yeah, I was just picturing the Heer placing thousands of obstacles designed to stop landing above the high water mark.

BTW, a prof. once asked me why certain obstacles were called "Belgian Gates"?

"Well, they were gates taken from farms in Belgium. Other than that I have no clue."
'Belgian Gates'?? Hi OP, never heard the term and you would think that I would have done eh. lcm1
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  #86  
Old 08 Sep 17, 21:07
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Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
Did anybody say people fighting and dying?
I think that I have done on a number of occasions RS. lcm1
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  #87  
Old 08 Sep 17, 22:22
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'Belgian Gates'?? Hi OP, never heard the term and you would think that I would have done eh. lcm1
Prof. Roberts found it somewhere and asked me about it. Didn't ask he for the provenance, it was just a question during a class prep session.

Found this:

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Old 09 Sep 17, 00:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lcm1 View Post
That is what I have been saying! The craft crew did not follow a major rule of beaching, they did not touch bottom on the sand, the craft had a shallow draft and if they did as they were supposed to do the men going ashore would have been unlucky if they got their feet wet. lcm1
I agree completely.

The photo does make me wonder if there was a line of obstacles that were underwater even at low tide, particularly posts topped with real or fake AT mines, so they were ordered to drop ramps before they reached that line.

I have not found enough info in anything I've read about Omaha to suggest any such logical reason for dropping the ramps in deeper water.
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Old 09 Sep 17, 01:44
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Weren't the Belgian Gates supposed to let a Landing Craft enter and then trap them?

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Old 09 Sep 17, 04:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoPref View Post
I agree completely.

The photo does make me wonder if there was a line of obstacles that were underwater even at low tide, particularly posts topped with real or fake AT mines, so they were ordered to drop ramps before they reached that line.

I have not found enough info in anything I've read about Omaha to suggest any such logical reason for dropping the ramps in deeper water.
Regarding Omaha, I do not know the truth but it was common knowledge on the beaches that LSMs and LSTs were in many cases deliberately not going right in and dropping their ramps in deep water and men and machines were going down like stones. If that is the case I blame a certain amount of the happening to lack of proper training and the rest to cowardice. lcm1
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