HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > World War II

Notices and Announcements

World War II Discuss WW2. .

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 19 Aug 17, 07:09
Colonel Sennef's Avatar
Colonel Sennef Colonel Sennef is offline
ACG Forums - Africanus Majoris
EU
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C SPQR Campaign 
 
Real Name: Jeroen
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Outremer
Posts: 8,085
Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
What do we see on this iconic Omaha Beach photo?



While looking at this iconic Omaha Beach photo I was wondering what those white pieces of paper (or is it cloth) were, visible on the ramp of the landing craft?

Any thoughts?
__________________
BoRG

You may not be interested in War, but War is interested in You - Leon Trotski, June 1919.
Reply With Quote
Facebook Connect and Magazine Promotions

World War II Magazine
$26.95

Armchair General Magazine
$26.95
Military History Magazine
$26.95
  #2  
Old 19 Aug 17, 07:25
Half Pint John's Avatar
Half Pint John Half Pint John is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: John (NO LABELS)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Stuttgart Germany
Posts: 47,322
Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+]  [+1]
Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Water proof bags for the weapons.

Perhaps lcm1 can give us the correct answer.
__________________
"Ask not what your country can do for you"

Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.

'half-baked, spurious nationalism'
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 19 Aug 17, 07:51
CarpeDiem's Avatar
CarpeDiem CarpeDiem is offline
ACG Forums - General Staff
Canada
Distinguished Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,859
CarpeDiem gives and gets respect [800] CarpeDiem gives and gets respect [800]
CarpeDiem gives and gets respect [800] CarpeDiem gives and gets respect [800] CarpeDiem gives and gets respect [800] CarpeDiem gives and gets respect [800] CarpeDiem gives and gets respect [800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
Water proof bags for the weapons.

Perhaps lcm1 can give us the correct answer.
Yes, I think you've hit the nail on the head.

Carbine and Garand rifle waterproof invasion bag



Seen in use here, looking very similar to the items pictured in OP:



“Some of the first American soldiers to attack the German defenses in Higgins Boats (LCVPs) approach Omaha Beach near Normandy, France on June 6, 1944. Plastic covers protect the soldier’s weapons against from the water. (Photo by Robert F. Sargent, U.S. Coast Guard/Galerie Bilderwelt/Getty Images)” The M1 Garand was found to be sensitive to sand and salt spray in the extremely harsh USMC San Diego tests of late 1940. The plastic weapon covers used in the D-Day invasion protected the action from spray and sand ingress, greatly reducing the weapon’s chance of failure during the landings

Last edited by CarpeDiem; 19 Aug 17 at 08:21..
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 19 Aug 17, 08:03
MarkV's Avatar
MarkV MarkV is online now
General of the Forums
UK
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Tenbury Wells
Posts: 12,376
MarkV is simply cracking [600]
MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600] MarkV is simply cracking [600]
Sea sick bags! I've seen a copy of letter from a British soldier who landed in Normandy who mentions being issued with them and its not impossible that so were the US troops. If they were waterproofing bags for weapons, kit etc it seems unlikely that they would be removed before they jumped into the water!. If you look carefully ot the OP you can see a man just in front of the starboard side of the ramp holding what appears to be a Garrand still in its bag.
__________________
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

Last edited by MarkV; 19 Aug 17 at 08:08..
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 19 Aug 17, 08:10
Half Pint John's Avatar
Half Pint John Half Pint John is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: John (NO LABELS)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Stuttgart Germany
Posts: 47,322
Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+]  [+1]
Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Half Pint John has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
Sea sick bags! I've seen a copy of letter from a British soldier who landed in Normandy who mentions being issued with them and its not impossible that so were the US troops. If they were waterproofing bags for weapons, kit etc it seems unlikely that they would be removed before they jumped into the water!. If you look carefully ot the OP you can see a man just in front of the starboard side of the ramp holding what appears to be a Garrand still in its bag.
Look at the two photos above.
__________________
"Ask not what your country can do for you"

Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.

'half-baked, spurious nationalism'
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 19 Aug 17, 08:16
CarpeDiem's Avatar
CarpeDiem CarpeDiem is offline
ACG Forums - General Staff
Canada
Distinguished Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,859
CarpeDiem gives and gets respect [800] CarpeDiem gives and gets respect [800]
CarpeDiem gives and gets respect [800] CarpeDiem gives and gets respect [800] CarpeDiem gives and gets respect [800] CarpeDiem gives and gets respect [800] CarpeDiem gives and gets respect [800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
Sea sick bags! I've seen a copy of letter from a British soldier who landed in Normandy who mentions being issued with them and its not impossible that so were the US troops. If they were waterproofing bags for weapons, kit etc it seems unlikely that they would be removed before they jumped into the water!. If you look carefully ot the OP you can see a man just in front of the starboard side of the ramp holding what appears to be a Garrand still in its bag.
Here's a picture from the IWM of a sea sickness bag used on D-day
D Day sea sickness (vomit) bag

Note the different appearance to the items in the picture.

As to the comment about the Garand being in a bag to the right side of the picture, look at all the other men carrying Garands through the water without bags on. What happened to their weapon covers? Or did only that lucky chap get one? Also note the similarity in colour/shading and size of the Garand covers to the items at the front of the landing craft.

Last edited by CarpeDiem; 19 Aug 17 at 08:23..
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 19 Aug 17, 08:29
OpanaPointer's Avatar
OpanaPointer OpanaPointer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 11,682
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpeDiem View Post
“... in the extremely harsh USMC San Diego tests of late 1940...
Yeah, boot camp was a ball back then.

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 19 Aug 17, 09:27
Colonel Sennef's Avatar
Colonel Sennef Colonel Sennef is offline
ACG Forums - Africanus Majoris
EU
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C SPQR Campaign 
 
Real Name: Jeroen
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Outremer
Posts: 8,085
Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpeDiem View Post
As to the comment about the Garand being in a bag to the right side of the picture, look at all the other men carrying Garands through the water without bags on. What happened to their weapon covers? Or did only that lucky chap get one? Also note the similarity in colour/shading and size of the Garand covers to the items at the front of the landing craft.
I can imagine that a squad or platoon commander would order part of his unit to remove those covers just before leaving the landing craft, ready to bring out fire immediately;
and the rest to remove their covers when through the surf,
improving the unit's odds of having working rifles on the beach.
__________________
BoRG

You may not be interested in War, but War is interested in You - Leon Trotski, June 1919.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 19 Aug 17, 10:06
R.N. Armstrong's Avatar
R.N. Armstrong R.N. Armstrong is offline
ACG Author
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Plainview
Posts: 8,343
R.N. Armstrong has earned the respect of all [900] R.N. Armstrong has earned the respect of all [900]
R.N. Armstrong has earned the respect of all [900] R.N. Armstrong has earned the respect of all [900] R.N. Armstrong has earned the respect of all [900] R.N. Armstrong has earned the respect of all [900] R.N. Armstrong has earned the respect of all [900] R.N. Armstrong has earned the respect of all [900]
Men in battle, many of them glad to be off the landing craft because of seasickness.

Relieved is probably a better word.
__________________
Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 19 Aug 17, 10:49
OpanaPointer's Avatar
OpanaPointer OpanaPointer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 11,682
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Sennef View Post
I can imagine that a squad or platoon commander would order part of his unit to remove those covers just before leaving the landing craft, ready to bring out fire immediately;
and the rest to remove their covers when through the surf,
improving the unit's odds of having working rifles on the beach.
OR "to hell with this, I'm not going onto that beach without a ready weapon."
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #11  
Old 19 Aug 17, 11:57
Colonel Sennef's Avatar
Colonel Sennef Colonel Sennef is offline
ACG Forums - Africanus Majoris
EU
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C SPQR Campaign 
 
Real Name: Jeroen
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Outremer
Posts: 8,085
Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
OR "to hell with this, I'm not going onto that beach without a ready weapon."
I would find that understandable;
but acting so you run the risk that your ready weapon has become unready by the time you want to use it because of the sand and salty spray
__________________
BoRG

You may not be interested in War, but War is interested in You - Leon Trotski, June 1919.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 19 Aug 17, 12:38
OpanaPointer's Avatar
OpanaPointer OpanaPointer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 11,682
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Sennef View Post
I would find that understandable;
but acting so you run the risk that your ready weapon has become unready by the time you want to use it because of the sand and salty spray
Keep the barrel up to reduce sand intrusion there. Wrap the bag around the working end and lose it quicker.

It goes back to the old saying, "How fast can I run? How scared am I?"
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 19 Aug 17, 15:26
R.N. Armstrong's Avatar
R.N. Armstrong R.N. Armstrong is offline
ACG Author
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Plainview
Posts: 8,343
R.N. Armstrong has earned the respect of all [900] R.N. Armstrong has earned the respect of all [900]
R.N. Armstrong has earned the respect of all [900] R.N. Armstrong has earned the respect of all [900] R.N. Armstrong has earned the respect of all [900] R.N. Armstrong has earned the respect of all [900] R.N. Armstrong has earned the respect of all [900] R.N. Armstrong has earned the respect of all [900]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Sennef View Post
I would find that understandable;
but acting so you run the risk that your ready weapon has become unready by the time you want to use it because of the sand and salty spray
If I was on that landing craft, I would have to barf, and I would not think twice to pull that plastic off the rifle to keep from spewing on other soldiers or have my puke slosh around in the water on the boat bottom.
__________________
Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 19 Aug 17, 15:42
Colonel Sennef's Avatar
Colonel Sennef Colonel Sennef is offline
ACG Forums - Africanus Majoris
EU
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C SPQR Campaign 
 
Real Name: Jeroen
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Outremer
Posts: 8,085
Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
Keep the barrel up to reduce sand intrusion there. Wrap the bag around the working end and lose it quicker.

I would think that taking the rifle out of the plastic covers while still in the landing craft defeats their whole purpose.
I wonder if the landing excercises at Slapton Sands were carried out with these covers and if so when they were ordered to be removed.


IIRC it was in Samuel Fuller's 'The Big Red One' that I heard first of troops putting condoms over the barrel of their rifles to keep sand and salt spray out.
I don't know what was done to protect the working end.
__________________
BoRG

You may not be interested in War, but War is interested in You - Leon Trotski, June 1919.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 19 Aug 17, 15:49
Colonel Sennef's Avatar
Colonel Sennef Colonel Sennef is offline
ACG Forums - Africanus Majoris
EU
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C SPQR Campaign 
 
Real Name: Jeroen
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Outremer
Posts: 8,085
Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Colonel Sennef has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by R.N. Armstrong View Post
If I was on that landing craft, I would have to barf, and I would not think twice to pull that plastic off the rifle to keep from spewing on other soldiers or have my puke slosh around in the water on the boat bottom.
I would think I'd rather use the above mentioned sea sick bags especially provided for such an occasion
__________________
BoRG

You may not be interested in War, but War is interested in You - Leon Trotski, June 1919.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:51.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.