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American Age of Discovery, Colonization, Revolution, & Expansion Military history of North America. .

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  #76  
Old 18 Nov 16, 17:34
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The Aztec capital Tenochtitlan...was one of the largest cities in the world during the 15th century. That in and of itself is a great feat. It shows the organizational capability of the Aztecs. The Aztecs were also highly civilized in the sense that the streets of the Tenochtitlan were beautiful. The Spaniards were amazed at the cleanliness of Tenochtitlan. Aztecs were also practicing the art of recycling various items.

Aztec medicine was worth noting, the Aztecs had over 100 herbal remedies for specific ailments.

source - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nS6MpVbB_g
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  #77  
Old 18 Nov 16, 17:52
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How did the Aztecs manage to go from being hunter-gatherers to creating one of the largest cities in the world and a powerful empire in a relatively short time?

First, their adherence to law and order created an organized city and society. Second, they created a meritocratic system, where hard work was rewarded. The Aztecs considered education as a high priority. All children had to attend school: boys and girls, commoners and nobles. Education prepared children to become productive members of society. They also developed a resource-efficient culture that made the best use of any available resources in order to survive. These factors shaped their waste management practices.


During the rule of Moctezuma II (1502 to 1520) dumping of waste and even littering in public spaces was prohibited and penalized. In some cases the penalties for violating the law would be considered disproportionate by today’s standards: a person could be sentenced to death for cutting down a living tree without proper authorization. Aztec society expected its rulers and nobility to be role models and stipulated stiffer penalties for them than for the general population if they violated the law. Wastefulness was not tolerated, particularly among the elite: children of nobility were sentenced to death if they were wasteful. This contrasts markedly with most contemporary societies, where high government officials and policymakers enjoy legal immunity from prosecution, and their children sometimes flaunt their wealth and privileges.

https://ourworld.unu.edu/en/the-azte...-waste-society


Earlier a fellow poster asked about Aztec influences in the USA.

The following source discusses Aztec contributions and also shows how the civilized Spaniards and Aztecs did have friendly relations,


Are there any Aztec inventions that are still in use in the world today? It's actually a tricky question, and it depends on what you mean by "invention". The truth is that the empire of the Aztecs introduced many things to the world. But they weren't so much unique innovations as they were things they took from the peoples that they had conquered - things that had been around for hundreds even thousands of years.

When the Aztecs met the Spanish, the two cultures introduced a lot to each other. In this new era, the peoples of Mexico were introduced to things like onions and horses, and the Europeans were introduced to... well, that's what we're going to talk about.


Mandatory, universal education
Popcorn
chocolate

Aztec Inventions: Antispasmodic medication

The Aztecs practised advanced medicine. They used a type of antispasmodic medication - medicine that could prevent muscle spasms and relax muscles, which may have been helpful during surgery.

The Passion flower was used for this purpose, a flower which still grows in Mexico today. The passion flower is still used today as an herbal remedy, believed to help with insomnia, epilepsy, and high blood pressure.


http://www.aztec-history.com/aztec-inventions.html


Suggestions have been made that the world of today can positively utilzie Aztec methods,



Societies can be highly adaptable — The Aztecs adapted quickly and successfully from a nomadic, hunter-gatherer lifestyle to a sedentary, agricultural one, which has been called “agrarian urbanism”. And, in the process, they developed a resource-efficient culture with a highly-productive agricultural system that recycled nutrients from their wastes. Their intensive recycling practices created a competitive economy that minimized wastes and used them productively to satisfy their needs. The Aztecs had to survive in a region where other nations already lived and were not always friendly. A strong economy allowed them to eventually build an empire. Contemporary societies face significant challenges such as the need to feed a growing population, environmental pollution, habitat destruction, biodiversity loss and the possible negative impacts of climate change. Societies today need to transition to a development model that is more inclusive, less unequal, more resource-efficient, and low-carbon. The transition will not be painless, but the Aztecs demonstrate that a society can successfully adapt to dramatic changes in environmental conditions and build a strong economy by making an efficient use of resources and not wasting anything.

Wastes are actually resources — The Aztecs learned that “wastes” are resources that can be recovered, reused, recycled and used productively in manufacturing and agriculture. Necessity made the Aztecs pursue self-sufficiency. In time, they discovered that some waste materials were actually very valuable — so valuable, that they were bought and sold, such as human excrement and urine. For recycling to be economically sustainable in the long term, it needs to respond to demand. If a waste material has a price, people will recover it in order to make extra money. In the modern world, prices of materials — metals, paper, plastics, and so forth — need to reflect the environmental impact of their extraction and processing as well as their disposal. Under these conditions, the market would favour recycling and resource efficiency. When government policies, particularly subsidies, make energy, water, and natural resources artificially cheap, they encourage wastefulness.


https://ourworld.unu.edu/en/the-azte...-waste-society
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  #78  
Old 18 Nov 16, 18:33
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I can't rep you again so soon.
Covered it.
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Old 18 Nov 16, 23:11
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My level of ever having a honest discourse with sj has gone to nil. For someone to be so intellectually dishonest or ignorant on such a consistent basis shows that he has no desire to learn or is just a troll trying to get a rise out of people...
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Old 19 Nov 16, 10:48
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My level of ever having a honest discourse with sj has gone to nil. For someone to be so intellectually dishonest or ignorant on such a consistent basis shows that he has no desire to learn or is just a troll trying to get a rise out of people...
You continue to say you have me on ignore and you continue to talk about me without quoting me...which is as others have said...the mark of a coward.

Your embarrassing yourself every time you personally insult other posters for providing viewpoints you disagree with. Please stop doing that, and instead contribute something that has to do with the thread topic.
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  #81  
Old 19 Nov 16, 16:18
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I do believe the word 'Native" in the term "Native American" may well be obselete

Maybe we could all be good lexicographers and come up with a brand new way of describing the culture of the peoples of North america prior to the Crown government of Great Britain and Northern Island and their colonies here.

Maybe...."Pre-Colonial North-Americans" will fit the bill?

Australian Aboriginal people have been here in this continent for a minmum of 40,000 and a maximum of 80,000 years, Even given that 40,000 does sound a whole lot less than the other figure, it is still 8 TIMES LONGER than the accepted beginnings of 'civilization' itself!

THAT is INDIGENOUS.

I'm not so sure that Pre-colonial North Americans can make that same claim. Their migrations here happened....how long ago? Help me out here.

From small beginnings like our website, we CAN start a trend in descriptive lexicography that the internet can and does spread. Political correctness began as a social, phenomenon in exactly this manner.

"From little things, big things grow..."
Amerinds works for me, especially since the latest studies show that the Indians were not the first inhabitants of our continent, but merely one population out of many throughout history.

"Native" doesn't work because anyone born in America is by legal definition a "Native American".

I do laugh sometimes at the constant claim by the Amerinds that they wish to "preserve their culture", when all that will be left of them someday are the buried ruins of their casinos.

They make little or no attempt to preserve the vast majority of their history and culture.
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Old 19 Nov 16, 23:32
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Covered it.
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Old 20 Nov 16, 01:16
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... They'd overcome and shrugged off the affects of the Black Death, while the Aztec Empire would fall to small pox.

...

Fascinating point, I had not thought of that.

And, the only thing I was going to give props to the Aztecs to was their pharmacopeia... well, in practice... so much for that.


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Are there any Aztec inventions that are still in use in the world today? It's actually a tricky question, and it depends on what you mean by "invention". The truth is that the empire of the Aztecs introduced many things to the world. But they weren't so much unique innovations as they were things they took from the peoples that they had conquered - things that had been around for hundreds even thousands of years.
You could have re-read that paragraph and stopped there.

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Originally Posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
Mandatory, universal education
Popcorn
chocolate
No, universal educations was not brought to the world by the Aztecs, and whatever passed for whatever they called education didn't amount to much. Its not like they were even using the wheel for anything.

Popcorn, chocolate?
Okay, they grew corn, wow. Did they invent Corn?

No more than the Spaniards invented Horses.

Moreover, gathering trash was no big mystery, it was what the city was founded on. They had a city in a lake, they had made cribs of stone and filled them with trash to do so. Hard trash to build the city on, and more gooey sorts for plots where they grew their food.
I hear that Venice beat them to all that by about 1500 years, at least, not to mention half a dozen other places.

Sorry, but the legacy of the Aztecs to me is ugly 'art', a state built on war and conquest, and a ghastly religion that required an ever-increasing amount of human wastage.

I'm just glad that Cortex didn't waste any time.
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  #84  
Old 20 Nov 16, 02:55
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Keep in mind that if a people have no natural immunity to a disease, it affects them much worse than victims with some immunity. When the Hawaiian Islands encountered "Childhood Diseases" like Chicken Pox, Measles, Rubella and others it hit them like the Black Death hit Europe. The same thing happened in the Americas.

The Black Death hit Europe several times and each time killed everyone except people with a genetic defense. When the Bubonic Plague gets into a body it replicates by attaching itself to a certain portal found on most people's cells. They did a study n Europe a while back and found most people today in Europe lack the portal in the cell walls. According to Darwin's Law this gave a reproducing advantage to the people without the portal.

Millions of native Americans in the Americas died. The few left may well have picked up some immunity or perhaps married into people with some immunity. The old Hawaiians are almost gone now. Most are bred into the people who came in and took their place.

Some diseases change over time and either get more or less virulent. Look how fast Influenza changes. My Great Grandmother caught the Spanish Flu when it became worldwide. She had just gave birth to her sixth child and that left her weak to the disease and it killed her. My Great Grandpaw took it hard. He went on a three year drunk while relatives raised his kids. Great Grandpaw Erwin went on to live 99 years and he survived Heart Surgery at 98!

! Grandpaw!

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  #85  
Old 20 Nov 16, 03:12
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Good points. Disease changed the political landscape of the Plains Indians. The Blackfeet went from a major power to nobodies in just a few short years.

The Crow, who initially were very hostile to whites, got hit so hard by various diseases that they lost control of key areas to other tribes, and abruptly took up with whites, providing the US Army with the best scouts they would have on the Plains.
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Old 20 Nov 16, 04:19
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Look at a map of Massachusetts sometimes. You will notice a lot of places ending in ..field. When the Spanish landed in Mexico they started a disease Tidal wave that swept through North America. It killed off millions before it burned out. The Pilgrims got to Massachusetts and found open fields ready to plant. This saved a lot of work because many New England Farms had to clear numerous rocks and stones from the field before they could plow. The Farmers of NE made stone fences out of them. You can see one towards the End of the movie "The Shawshank Redemption". The reason there were so many empty fields is the owners died from European diseases from as far away as Mexico (some people also claim European Fishermen for some of it). Also some tribes liked to rotate fields and would pick up and move to other fields they were letting lay fallow.

The Pilgrims were greeted by the local Indians as potential allies in their local wars. The growing problem was the Pilgrims spread out and occupied all these empty fields. "Praise God! He led us to these empty fields just waiting to be planted!"

The Cheyenne avoided some of these plagues by avoiding all contact with people crossing the area. They did this after they caught one of the early plagues. They reached out and absorbed some other surviving bands. For a while they were called the "Kite Indians" because all you saw was them leaving!

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Old 20 Nov 16, 23:03
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I also didn't help the indigenous population any not knowing European politics. Tribes often choose poorly siding with one European faction or another in their wars. The US war of 1812 for example saw the Great Lakes tribes under Tecumseh side with the British only to lose and face retribution by the US.
The French and Indian war, likewise. The French lost and the Indians got bent over afterwards.
Tribes that sided with Spanish conquistadors found out after winning they were next on the "to be enslaved" list.
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Old 20 Nov 16, 23:19
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I'm still puzzled about the 'Mound Cities' I surmise that they were wiped out by disease. But why don't we have archeologists digging them up and finding out what they looked like, ect...
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Old 20 Nov 16, 23:34
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What does rich and fertile land have to do anything other than luck of geography? Japan has perhaps the most fertile soil on earth, yet all they did was to migrate from Korea and subjugate the indigenous people already there. Not much different from the Aztecs.

As far as flushing toilets go, the Egyptians figured that one out in 2500BC, which makes the Aztecs 4000 years behind time.
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Old 21 Nov 16, 00:02
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Real Name: Richard Pruitt
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sulphur, LA
Posts: 27,301
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salinator View Post
As far as flushing toilets go, the Egyptians figured that one out in 2500BC, which makes the Aztecs 4000 years behind time.
That still leaves them ahead of Europe in both places!

Pruitt
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Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"
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