Lincoln film how historically accurate?

[Number 6]

Whew this will take me awhile!

I am aware there is a reason there are loads of statues to Robert E. Lee, and almost none to Jefferson.

As far as I know there were over 13,000 people held for political reasons at Fort Lafayette in New York Harbor, the “American Bastille.”

Really Know About

“Jim Limber”?

By John M. Coski, Historian and Library Director, Museum of the Confederacy, Richmond,Virginia © 2008





Even without official documentation, wartime sources do corroborate Mrs. Davis’ postwar account of Jim Limber’s presence in the Confederate executive mansion. On February 16, 1864, a family friend, the celebrated diarist Mary Chestnut, recorded that she saw (in the 3rd-floor room where Varina’s mother lived for part of the war) “the little negro Mrs. Davis rescued yesterday from his brutal negro guardian. The child is an orphan. He was dressed up in Little Joe’s (The Davis’s natural born son) clothes and happy as a lord. He was very anxious to show me his wounds and bruises, but I fled.”

A year later, nine-year-old Margaret Davis wrote to her younger bother, Jeff, who was spending time with the army, relaying that “Jim Limber sends his love to you…” As the Davises fled southward from Richmond in April 1865, Varina included Jim limber in her reports to her husband about the family. On April 19, 1865: “The children are well and very happy—play all day—Billy & Jim fast friends as ever…” On April 28, 1865: “Billy and Jeff are very well—Limber is thriving but bad.”

Can you tell me why the military had him on display until the release of Davis, and what they did to him?

[hellboy30]

Originally Posted by Number 6

Whew this will take me awhile!

I am aware there is a reason there are loads of statues to Robert E. Lee, and almost none to Jefferson.

As far as I know there were over 13,000 people held for political reasons at Fort Lafayette in New York Harbor, the “American Bastille.”

As usual, your facts seem to be a little out of whack. 13,000 "As far as I know"? Pray tell, says who? From http://www.secretsi.com/2012/02/25/35/

From the years 1861 to 1866, Fort Lafayette was utilized as a prison for high-value Confederates during the Civil War, numbering between 20 and 150 at any given time. Among those imprisoned there were the Mayors of Baltimore, MD and Washington, DC as they were regarded as Southern sympathizers, and General William Fitzhugh Lee, brother of General Robert E. Lee.

Quite a bit off, huh?

Originally Posted by Number 6

Really Know About

“Jim Limber”?

By John M. Coski, Historian and Library Director, Museum of the Confederacy, Richmond,Virginia © 2008





Even without official documentation, wartime sources do corroborate Mrs. Davis’ postwar account of Jim Limber’s presence in the Confederate executive mansion. On February 16, 1864, a family friend, the celebrated diarist Mary Chestnut, recorded that she saw (in the 3rd-floor room where Varina’s mother lived for part of the war) “the little negro Mrs. Davis rescued yesterday from his brutal negro guardian. The child is an orphan. He was dressed up in Little Joe’s (The Davis’s natural born son) clothes and happy as a lord. He was very anxious to show me his wounds and bruises, but I fled.”

A year later, nine-year-old Margaret Davis wrote to her younger bother, Jeff, who was spending time with the army, relaying that “Jim Limber sends his love to you…” As the Davises fled southward from Richmond in April 1865, Varina included Jim limber in her reports to her husband about the family. On April 19, 1865: “The children are well and very happy—play all day—Billy & Jim fast friends as ever…” On April 28, 1865: “Billy and Jeff are very well—Limber is thriving but bad.”

Can you tell me why the military had him on display until the release of Davis, and what they did to him?

Well, according to http://encyclopediavirginia.org/Limber_Jim

Jim was separated from the Davises after their capture in May 1865. A member of the Davis party wrote in her diary that Varina Davis's "pet Negro" had been taken from her. The Davises entrusted his care to an old army friend, Union general Rufus Saxton, whom Varina Davis asked "to look after our little protégé Jim's education, in order that he might not fall under the degrading influence" of a menacing Union officer. When the child realized he was to be separated, according to Davis, he "fought like a little tiger and was thus engaged the last we saw of him. I hope he has been successful in the world for he was a fine boy, notwithstanding all that had been done to mar his childhood."

Contrary to modern renditions of Jim's biography, there is no evidence that the Davises subsequently searched widely for him. Indeed, Varina Davis's own account of their separation indicates that she understood it to be permanent.

The last recorded evidence of him comes from the 1893 memoir of Elizabeth Hyde Botume, a Boston woman who came south to teach the freedmen on the South Carolina Sea Islands. Botume recalled Jim as "about seven years old, but small for his age; he was a very light mulatto, with brown curly hair, thick lips, and a defiant nose." She quoted from memory Varina Davis's note to Saxton describing how the child had come into their home and stating her intention "to keep him until he was old enough to learn a trade." Botume confirmed that Jim had been "the constant companion and playmate of Mrs. Davis's children" and "considered himself as one of them." But he apparently transferred his affections easily to his "new protectors," the Saxtons. They, in turn, gave him to the care of teachers, who took him north for schooling. He reportedly became "well-trained in all ways, having the advantage of school, as well as a good practical education, until he was old enough to support himself."

So it doesn't sound like the military had him on display at all.
Or here, an exerpt from John Coski's book from the Museum of the Confederacy: http://oldvirginiablog.blogspot.com/...is-family.html

The former President recounted the event in an 1875 letter. Davis described Jim as “a little negro orphan who she [Mrs. Davis] had in pity rescued from the ill treatment of a negro woman in Richmond who claimed that the boy’s mother had left him to her.” Rather than give him over to a Federal officer they judged untrustworthy, the Davises placed him in the care of an old army friend, Gen. Rufus Saxton.

Varina elaborated on the incident in another footnote in her memoir: “[W]e learned that our old friend, General Saxton, was there [at the Hilton Head], and my husband thought we might ask the favor of him to look after our little protégé Jim’s education, in order that he might not fall under the degrading influence of Captain Hudson. A note was written to General Saxton and the poor little boy was given to the officers of the tugboat for the General, who kindly took charge of him. Believing that he was going on board to see something and return, he quietly went, but as soon as he found he was going to leave us he fought like a little tiger and was thus engaged the last we saw of him. I hope he has been successful in the world for he was a fine boy, notwithstanding all that had been done to mar his childhood. Some years ago we saw in a Massachusetts paper that he would bear to his grave the marks of the stripes inflicted upon him by us. We felt sure he had not said this, for the affection was mutual between us, and we had never punished him.”

Contrary to modern renditions of Jim’s biography, there is no evidence that the Davises subsequently searched widely for him. Indeed, Varina’s own account of their separation indicates that she understood it to be permanent.

Most modern accounts of Jim Limber end with this dramatic scene. An 1893 memoir, First Days Among the Contrabands (published while Mrs. Davis was still alive to read it), offers a few more details about the child’s life after the Davises. Elizabeth Hyde Botume, a Boston woman who came south to teach the freedmen on the South Carolina sea islands, recalled him as “about seven years old, but small for his age; he was a very light mulatto, with brown curly hair, thick lips, and a defiant nose.”

Botume also recalled that Mrs. Davis sent Jim Limber to Gen. Saxton with a note, “written with pencil on the blank leaf of a book. I quote from memory. She said:--‘I send this boy to you, General Saxton, and beg you to take good care of him. His mother was a free colored woman in Richmond. She died when he was an infant, leaving him to the care of a friend, who was cruel and neglectful of him. One day Mrs. Davis and her children went to the house and found the woman beating the little fellow, who was then only two years old [sic]. So she took him home with her, intending to find a good place for him. But he was so bright and playful, her own children were unwilling to give him up. Then she decided to keep him until he was old enough to learn a trade. ‘That was five [sic] years ago, and he has shared our fortunes and misfortunes until the present time. But we can do nothing more for him, I send him to you, General Saxton, as you were a friend of our earlier and better times. You will find him affectionate and tractable. I beg you to be kind to him.’ That was the gist of her note.”

Jim Limber joined the Sea Islands freedmen’s colony. “As he as the constant companion and playmate of Mrs. Davis’ children, he considered himself as one of them,” Botume wrote, “adopting their views and sharing their prejudices. President Davis was to him the one great man in the world. Mrs. Davis had given him the kindly care of a mother, and he had for her the loving devotion of a child.”

He apparently developed a similar bond with his new “new protectors,” the Saxtons. They soon found it necessary to transfer him to care of the teachers, who took him north for schooling. “Finally,” Botume wrote, Jim “drifted” into the home of a northern woman, who “placed him where he was well-trained in all ways, having the advantage of school, as well as a good practical education, until he was old enough to support himself.”

Although flawed in some details, Botumes’s recollection seems to substantiate Varina Davis’ telling term, “protégé,” as the most accurate description of Jim Limber’s status. The Davises clearly assumed responsibility for him and there was obviously affection between him and his sponsors. It is less likely that he was “adopted” in any meaningful sense. The evidence suggests that he was a member of the Davis family in the same way that slaves, servants, and other dependents were members of white families—with real mutual responsibility and affection.

Again, NOTHING about the military having him "on display".

[Number 6]

Thanks for the info on Jim, will search it out. The few books I read that mentioned him had him on display by the military.

[Unionblue]

Originally Posted by hellboy30

As usual, your facts seem to be a little out of whack. 13,000 "As far as I know"? Pray tell, says who? From http://www.secretsi.com/2012/02/25/35/
Quite a bit off, huh?

Well, according to http://encyclopediavirginia.org/Limber_Jim
So it doesn't sound like the military had him on display at all.
Or here, an exerpt from John Coski's book from the Museum of the Confederacy: http://oldvirginiablog.blogspot.com/...is-family.html

Again, NOTHING about the military having him "on display".

Hellboy,

Thanks for smacking Number 6 down with facts and actual history. How long do we get to keep hearing this mish-mash fantasy?

And how much longer do we have to go into the deep woods of this fantasy when I thought we were talking about the Lincoln film?

Just curious.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

[Number 6]

Hey hellboy made some great points and I'm looking them up.

Not attacking him personally, fact finding.

If I'm wrong, great. I love finding out what happened. Apparently not everyone does.

Unionblue you only have to put up with it as long as you read it. Just don't go to my posts.