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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Vietnam War

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Vietnam War The Battle for Vietnam. .

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  #61  
Old 29 May 17, 14:05
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even before the U.S. military assumed sole responsibility for the fighting in 1965
Bo, the US never assumed "sole responsibility" for the fighting. The ARVN was always involved. The Marine Corps, Airborne Brigade (upped to a Division in 1965, the Rangers, and the 1st and 2nd ARVN Divisions, just to mention the ones known to me.
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  #62  
Old 29 May 17, 15:33
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Interesting the Vietnamese call the war the "American War". They don't call it the Civil War, but the American War.

I get the impression that by fighting us they forgot all about the fact they were actually fighting themselves.
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  #63  
Old 30 May 17, 08:57
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Originally Posted by GRA View Post
Interesting the Vietnamese call the war the "American War". They don't call it the Civil War, but the American War.

I get the impression that by fighting us they forgot all about the fact they were actually fighting themselves.
Do they refer to the French war?
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  #64  
Old 30 May 17, 09:50
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Thumbs up Good Question

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Originally Posted by copenhagen View Post
Do they refer to the French war?
Good question. I don't know. I'll ask my wife about that. When they refer to the "American War" they do it in Vietnamese, which I do not speak. Basically you would have to speak and understand Vietnamese to catch this specific reference.

When I've spoken to Vietnamese that came over here years ago (1970+) they also refer to it as the Vietnam War so I don't know if they do that just when speaking to me, or what - (?)

I'll ask my wife about it and see what she says.
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  #65  
Old 31 May 17, 00:22
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Good question. I don't know. I'll ask my wife about that.
Wife said yes, the 1950(s) war with France is often referred to as the French War.
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  #66  
Old 31 May 17, 06:16
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Wife said yes, the 1950(s) war with France is often referred to as the French War.
Maybe they see it as one war in different stages. I think the Americans seeing themselves as being avidly anti colonial couldn't possibly have seen themsleves in the same light as the French . However from certain Vietnamese perspective it was same old same old with different players.

Last edited by copenhagen; 31 May 17 at 06:34..
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  #67  
Old 31 May 17, 10:40
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Maybe they see it as one war in different stages. I think the Americans seeing themselves as being avidly anti colonial couldn't possibly have seen themsleves in the same light as the French . However from certain Vietnamese perspective it was same old same old with different players.
Yes indeed I think you're absolutely right. Throughout the years I've heard Vietnamese comment on how they viewed the Americans the same as they did the French; another foreign power that had no reason having any influence on their national affairs.
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  #68  
Old 01 Jun 17, 04:43
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What the Vietnam War did do was arouse doubt among U.S. allies on the judgment and credibility of the U.S. political and military leadership.
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  #69  
Old 03 Jun 17, 12:50
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Reference the "American War". That is the official Vietnamese government term. I find Vietnamese who call it the "North-South War" (Chien Tranh Nam Bac) and I have heard that some call it the "Nationalist-Communist War", but have never heard that myself. In everyday speech, I suspect that most Vietnamese simply call it "the war."

It is a historical fact that the great majority of Vietnam's wars have been fought against other Vietnamese, even when fighting Chinese, the Cham, or Mongols, but that is not unique to Vietnam. Nationalism is a relatively recent phenomenon historically speaking.
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  #70  
Old 17 Jun 17, 12:08
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Am returning to DeltaOne's very nice thread. Whereupon I will again present information confirm that Americans distrust over the issues involving the Vietnam War are primarily based upon the power elites who were waging the said War. It is clearly not the Media and other scapegoats that the apologists for those elites love to obfuscate about.

Once again I found an book of interest in the right wing TV series called BookTV program. Here they allowed a rare incident of a book of interest to slip through their censuring graze. The book is HUE 1968 by MARK BOWDEN newly published.

The author has documented the great fabrication of the historical record of what actually happen at the said battle and especially the behavior of the government and military elites in their allegations thereof. I must confess I had been somewhat fool with their falsehoods. I had always believed the Battle of Hue was as portrayed by the elites under leadership of Westmoreland. Now the truth is starkly revealed out of a heap of stinking falsehood that has lasted a very lone time.

In my above post #58, I had presented three American President who policies were crafted to present a falsehood to the American people. Thus the groundwork from which sprung forth a massive growth of mistrust by the American people. Now with this book one can add the military elites under the leadership of Westmoreland along with in this time period LBJ and associates.

Last edited by Bo Archer; 17 Jun 17 at 13:37..
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  #71  
Old 17 Jun 17, 13:59
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Here are a few remarks made by the author to wet your interest:

"This city has been taken and that very day General Westmoreland is cabling Washington there are no more than like 500 enemy soldiers in the City of Hue, which is off by a factor of 20"

"Captain Chuck Meadows, led these men across the bridge (an entrance to the city), lost half of is company, in making this attack before he realized and radioed back, "we're overwhelmed, we're outgunned". There's no way that he can proceed and was accused (by Westmoreland and associates) in turning back, of timidity and cowardess, along with some of his commanders (engaged in battle). And there are incidents and incidents of this, the denial taking place at the higher levels. Had very severe consequences for the young men who were actually fighting."

"You've got these young commanders who are in the middle of the fight (Battle of Hue), radioing back saying back saying look, this is what we're up against and being disbelieved because it didn't fit the theory General Westmoreland had in his head. This was not possible ( enemy soldiers capturing a huge city). There was no way that there could be 10,000 enemy soldiers in the City."

Last edited by Bo Archer; 17 Jun 17 at 22:24..
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  #72  
Old 21 Jun 17, 11:46
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Bo, the "young commanders" were radioing back to Battalion. Battalion was radioing back to Brigade (Army) or Regiment (USMC). They were radioing back to their higher command (a Division) who was radioing up to Corps (III MAF?), who was pulling together all the reports to send a summary up to MACV HQs. Two lessons I learned from years in a tactical operations center: The first report is usually wrong. Higher HQs is always demanding answers NOW! And when they do, they get that first answer, which may be right or wrong. As for the MACV equivalent commanders, yes, they have egos, and they usually believe their gut instincts, reasoning that it has carried them this high up the ladder.

By the way, does Bowden cover the Vietnamese units involved?
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  #73  
Old 25 Jun 17, 18:15
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The author does indeed cover Vietnamese persons involved in both sides of the fighting. He has very interest personal stories of those involved, including Americans. I find very interesting the Vietnamese personal stories: very young men and women in the VC militia who live in the area; South Vietnamese commander trying to get to his unit, going through the street fighting, out of uniform on a bicycle; NVA soldiers completely disoriented of direction when the local VC guide is killed; and many more personal stories. Noting the motivation driving these people. I got the book on my kindle device for around seven dollars. Very cool.
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