HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Weapons of War > Naval Warfare

Notices and Announcements

Naval Warfare A place to discuss all things Naval!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 12 Sep 17, 15:36
General_Jacke's Avatar
General_Jacke General_Jacke is offline
Captain
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Travis Tomaszkiewicz
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: council bluffs
Posts: 709
General_Jacke is on the path to success [1-99] General_Jacke is on the path to success [1-99] General_Jacke is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
My money's on the smaller missile boats..
Let's do the sums- say there are 10 missile boats each packing 4 anti-ship missiles, which gives a total punch of 40 missiles.
The enemy force is bigger with 20 vessels, each with a 75mm gun for a total of 20 guns. but 75mm guns are not so hot at shooting down missiles anyway, the boats will pop chaff/flares to try to decoy the missiles, or try to jam the missiles radar, but there's no guarantee it'll work, so 40 missiles against 20 guns looks to me as if the missile boats will win most of the time.

PS- but like other guys have said, a lot depends on what specific vessels on both sides we're talking about. For example missiles usually have a longer range than guns, so if the missile boats stand off and launch at maximum range, the enemy's guns won't have the range to hit them in return!.
(We wargamers do naval tactics stuff like that all the time)..
depends on the age of the gun you're talking about...if i'm not mistaken oto malera has guided rounds for missile defense available for their 76mm guns....
__________________
the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
A man dies and leaves his name,
A teacher dies and teaches death.
Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12 Sep 17, 15:53
Bwaha's Avatar
Bwaha Bwaha is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Orbiting the Sun
Posts: 18,373
Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
Naval gamers have all got their own favourites, but personally I'd say go for Fleet Command, it's currently only 6.99 GB pounds (about 9 US dollars) from Steam, I've been playing it for years..
It was released 18 years ago and has still got a big fan following because it's so bloody good; the user interface is a piece o' cake and you can either play the stock scenarios or use the editor to build your own simple scenarios in literally less than 5 minutes, you could just have one ship against one ship, or build something bigger like say 10 missile boats versus 20 gunboats, it's excellent for understanding naval tactics, no wonder the military use computer simulations for training..
PS- you mentioned torpedoes. They're in Fleet Command but are a bit oldfashioned and slow in modern warfare, warships usually hear them coming on sonar and will turn to outrun them.
If a smaller boat hasn't got sonar it'll have to rely on the crews eyeballs to see one coming, a bit tricky at night, but small boats are harder to hit with torpedoes anyway so they've got a fair chance of not being clobbered. The ideal targets for torps are fat juicy tankers and merchants, or crippled enemy warships that can be finished off with torps..

I played that. Pretty good sim for its age.

Anyway in that game you hunt missile boats with choppers firing the Penguin missile.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penguin_(missile)
__________________
Credo quia absurdum.


Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12 Sep 17, 17:39
TacCovert4's Avatar
TacCovert4 TacCovert4 is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign CWiE 1939-45 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Dan
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Not Quite Dead Yet
Posts: 14,769
TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
A few things about torpedoes and such in the modern context:

-In the hypothetical about hitting cargo ships or even Amphibious Vessels, Torpedoes would be highly effective. Neither can outrun a torpedo, and they're deadly effective.

-Dealing with surface vessels such as corvettes and destroyers, torpedoes are also very effective, when the right torpedo is used. The Mk65 Wake homing torpedo wouldn't be extraordinarily effective as it could be spoofed, outmaneuvered, or otherwise held at bay until it ran out of fuel, it's only got enough for 30 minutes of run time at its top speed, and its slow setting would be too slow for modern warships. Something like a Mk48 would be much harder to outmaneuver because its more sophisticated homing system would bring it back on track fast enough to hit before it ran out of fuel.

-Torpedoes are more efficient ship killers than missiles just by their very nature, typically having a greater explosive warhead, plus punching a hole below the waterline, plus the 'physics effects' of an explosion underneath a ship both focusing the explosive power into the target in a way not unlike a shaped charge, plus the void under that portion of the ship made by the explosion causing stress on the ship's frame to cope with not being supported by water.

-The problem with torpedo boats in the modern context is that the torpedo is most effective when it's a weapon of surprise. Ideally you want the target vessel to only have a couple minutes warning at most that it's being targeted, much less fired upon. Missiles achieve this by short flight times, torpedoes have to be launched and guided in close in order to do it. Torpedoes have to either be shot along a bearing and terminally guide on internals, or be guided by wire, which strictly limits the launching vessel's speed. The latter is better able to cope with maneuvers, the former allows the launching vessel to maneuver itself. That's why torpedoes are just a better option from a submarine rather than from a surface vessel like a torpedo boat.

-The primary advantage of a torpedo over a missile is that you can spoof it, you might outrun it under the right circumstances, and you can maneuver around in an attempt to make it run out of fuel. But there are more missiles in the ocean than torpedoes in the sky....as long as your ship is attached to the water, the torpedo can theoretically reach it. With a couple of recent exceptions, there is no way to actually hard kill a torpedo, unlike missiles which can be hard killed by a variety of methods, you have to soft-kill the torpedo until it runs out of fuel.

-All that being said, in a fleet action in the modern era, several torpedo boats operating as a force that dashes out quickly from the fleet's protective bubble, launches multiple guided torpedoes in a spread at the enemy fleet, and then immediately retreats, and is willing to take casualties, could be a highly effective way of temporarily denying a portion of ocean to the enemy fleet. In tight quarters like fjords or islands, torpedo boats could even threaten surface combatants and most definitely logistics vessels.
__________________
Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12 Sep 17, 18:33
Poor Old Spike's Avatar
Poor Old Spike Poor Old Spike is offline
Colonel
UK
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: England
Posts: 1,579
Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwaha View Post
I played that. Pretty good sim for its age.
Anyway in that game you hunt missile boats with choppers firing the Penguin missile.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penguin_(missile)
Yeah it all depends what you've got in your toybox, for example if the enemy's got SAM's that outrange your Penguin-firing chopper you're up shite creek because the choppers will never get into Penguin launch range, that's why in modern naval warfare it's vital to know exactly what the enemy has got in his toybox..
The golden rule is "If the enemy's got a longer reach than you, you'll never get near him".

Remember the Battle of the River Plate where the Graf Spee pocket battleship had big guns with a longer reach than the 4 Brit cruisers that were closing in on it?
Kapitan Langsdorff of the Spee made the bad call of not standing off where the Brits couldn't touch him and instead closed with them and got beat up bad when he came within range of their guns.
As the puzzled Brit Admiral on one of the cruisers said- "Why get in close with the other fellow if you've got a longer reach than him?"
Langsdorff later stated (before blowing his brains out) that he thought if he turned away from the cruisers to maintain standoff range he'd run into a bigger Brit force over the horizon. There was no such force.

PS- here's a screenshot from another game I own called CMANO (Command:Modern Air Naval Operations) showing how it's essential to display assorted range circles on the screen so you can see the "reach" of everything at a glance such as missiles, guns, sonars, radars etc, so in effect modern navwar could be described as a War of the Rings..


Last edited by Poor Old Spike; 12 Sep 17 at 18:54..
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12 Sep 17, 19:34
Bwaha's Avatar
Bwaha Bwaha is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Orbiting the Sun
Posts: 18,373
Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
Yeah it all depends what you've got in your toybox, for example if the enemy's got SAM's that outrange your Penguin-firing chopper you're up shite creek because the choppers will never get into Penguin launch range, that's why in modern naval warfare it's vital to know exactly what the enemy has got in his toybox..
The golden rule is "If the enemy's got a longer reach than you, you'll never get near him".

Remember the Battle of the River Plate where the Graf Spee pocket battleship had big guns with a longer reach than the 4 Brit cruisers that were closing in on it?
Kapitan Langsdorff of the Spee made the bad call of not standing off where the Brits couldn't touch him and instead closed with them and got beat up bad when he came within range of their guns.
As the puzzled Brit Admiral on one of the cruisers said- "Why get in close with the other fellow if you've got a longer reach than him?"
Langsdorff later stated (before blowing his brains out) that he thought if he turned away from the cruisers to maintain standoff range he'd run into a bigger Brit force over the horizon. There was no such force.

PS- here's a screenshot from another game I own called CMANO (Command:Modern Air Naval Operations) showing how it's essential to display assorted range circles on the screen so you can see the "reach" of everything at a glance such as missiles, guns, sonars, radars etc, so in effect modern navwar could be described as a War of the Rings..

If your radar mast is 10' high and the curvature of the earth limits direct LOS to:

d1 = Horizon distance3.872399 miles

h1 = Target hidden height 195.6280 feet.

https://dizzib.github.io/earth/curve...&unit=imperial

This is why airborne radar is so important for modern naval fights.
__________________
Credo quia absurdum.


Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #21  
Old 12 Sep 17, 19:56
nastle's Avatar
nastle nastle is offline
Colonel
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lemont Illinois
Posts: 1,637
nastle is on the path to success [1-99] nastle is on the path to success [1-99] nastle is on the path to success [1-99] nastle is on the path to success [1-99] nastle is on the path to success [1-99] nastle is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TacCovert4 View Post
A few things about torpedoes and such in the modern context:

-In the hypothetical about hitting cargo ships or even Amphibious Vessels, Torpedoes would be highly effective. Neither can outrun a torpedo, and they're deadly effective.

-Dealing with surface vessels such as corvettes and destroyers, torpedoes are also very effective, when the right torpedo is used. The Mk65 Wake homing torpedo wouldn't be extraordinarily effective as it could be spoofed, outmaneuvered, or otherwise held at bay until it ran out of fuel, it's only got enough for 30 minutes of run time at its top speed, and its slow setting would be too slow for modern warships. Something like a Mk48 would be much harder to outmaneuver because its more sophisticated homing system would bring it back on track fast enough to hit before it ran out of fuel.

-Torpedoes are more efficient ship killers than missiles just by their very nature, typically having a greater explosive warhead, plus punching a hole below the waterline, plus the 'physics effects' of an explosion underneath a ship both focusing the explosive power into the target in a way not unlike a shaped charge, plus the void under that portion of the ship made by the explosion causing stress on the ship's frame to cope with not being supported by water.

-The problem with torpedo boats in the modern context is that the torpedo is most effective when it's a weapon of surprise. Ideally you want the target vessel to only have a couple minutes warning at most that it's being targeted, much less fired upon. Missiles achieve this by short flight times, torpedoes have to be launched and guided in close in order to do it. Torpedoes have to either be shot along a bearing and terminally guide on internals, or be guided by wire, which strictly limits the launching vessel's speed. The latter is better able to cope with maneuvers, the former allows the launching vessel to maneuver itself. That's why torpedoes are just a better option from a submarine rather than from a surface vessel like a torpedo boat.

-The primary advantage of a torpedo over a missile is that you can spoof it, you might outrun it under the right circumstances, and you can maneuver around in an attempt to make it run out of fuel. But there are more missiles in the ocean than torpedoes in the sky....as long as your ship is attached to the water, the torpedo can theoretically reach it. With a couple of recent exceptions, there is no way to actually hard kill a torpedo, unlike missiles which can be hard killed by a variety of methods, you have to soft-kill the torpedo until it runs out of fuel.

-All that being said, in a fleet action in the modern era, several torpedo boats operating as a force that dashes out quickly from the fleet's protective bubble, launches multiple guided torpedoes in a spread at the enemy fleet, and then immediately retreats, and is willing to take casualties, could be a highly effective way of temporarily denying a portion of ocean to the enemy fleet. In tight quarters like fjords or islands, torpedo boats could even threaten surface combatants and most definitely logistics vessels.
Excellent summary thank you
How would you compare mark 46 mod 5 torpedo with the type 53- 65?

Last edited by nastle; 12 Sep 17 at 20:27..
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12 Sep 17, 21:19
General_Jacke's Avatar
General_Jacke General_Jacke is offline
Captain
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Travis Tomaszkiewicz
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: council bluffs
Posts: 709
General_Jacke is on the path to success [1-99] General_Jacke is on the path to success [1-99] General_Jacke is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TacCovert4 View Post
A few things about torpedoes and such in the modern context:

-In the hypothetical about hitting cargo ships or even Amphibious Vessels, Torpedoes would be highly effective. Neither can outrun a torpedo, and they're deadly effective.

-Dealing with surface vessels such as corvettes and destroyers, torpedoes are also very effective, when the right torpedo is used. The Mk65 Wake homing torpedo wouldn't be extraordinarily effective as it could be spoofed, outmaneuvered, or otherwise held at bay until it ran out of fuel, it's only got enough for 30 minutes of run time at its top speed, and its slow setting would be too slow for modern warships. Something like a Mk48 would be much harder to outmaneuver because its more sophisticated homing system would bring it back on track fast enough to hit before it ran out of fuel.

-Torpedoes are more efficient ship killers than missiles just by their very nature, typically having a greater explosive warhead, plus punching a hole below the waterline, plus the 'physics effects' of an explosion underneath a ship both focusing the explosive power into the target in a way not unlike a shaped charge, plus the void under that portion of the ship made by the explosion causing stress on the ship's frame to cope with not being supported by water.

-The problem with torpedo boats in the modern context is that the torpedo is most effective when it's a weapon of surprise. Ideally you want the target vessel to only have a couple minutes warning at most that it's being targeted, much less fired upon. Missiles achieve this by short flight times, torpedoes have to be launched and guided in close in order to do it. Torpedoes have to either be shot along a bearing and terminally guide on internals, or be guided by wire, which strictly limits the launching vessel's speed. The latter is better able to cope with maneuvers, the former allows the launching vessel to maneuver itself. That's why torpedoes are just a better option from a submarine rather than from a surface vessel like a torpedo boat.

-The primary advantage of a torpedo over a missile is that you can spoof it, you might outrun it under the right circumstances, and you can maneuver around in an attempt to make it run out of fuel. But there are more missiles in the ocean than torpedoes in the sky....as long as your ship is attached to the water, the torpedo can theoretically reach it. With a couple of recent exceptions, there is no way to actually hard kill a torpedo, unlike missiles which can be hard killed by a variety of methods, you have to soft-kill the torpedo until it runs out of fuel.

-All that being said, in a fleet action in the modern era, several torpedo boats operating as a force that dashes out quickly from the fleet's protective bubble, launches multiple guided torpedoes in a spread at the enemy fleet, and then immediately retreats, and is willing to take casualties, could be a highly effective way of temporarily denying a portion of ocean to the enemy fleet. In tight quarters like fjords or islands, torpedo boats could even threaten surface combatants and most definitely logistics vessels.
as for the last point its pretty much the same with any FAC/FIAC and the principle theory behind the doctrine of iran's IRGC. throw as much **** at the wall and see what sticks, the brass is totally fine with losing boats, as long as their enemy (i.e. the USN or allies) lose major fleet elements like capital ships, escorts, and sealift command vessels.
__________________
the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
A man dies and leaves his name,
A teacher dies and teaches death.
Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12 Sep 17, 22:11
nastle's Avatar
nastle nastle is offline
Colonel
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lemont Illinois
Posts: 1,637
nastle is on the path to success [1-99] nastle is on the path to success [1-99] nastle is on the path to success [1-99] nastle is on the path to success [1-99] nastle is on the path to success [1-99] nastle is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by General_Jacke View Post
as for the last point its pretty much the same with any FAC/FIAC and the principle theory behind the doctrine of iran's IRGC. throw as much **** at the wall and see what sticks, the brass is totally fine with losing boats, as long as their enemy (i.e. the USN or allies) lose major fleet elements like capital ships, escorts, and sealift command vessels.
The NK navy probably has the same strategy
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12 Sep 17, 22:16
Herman Hum's Avatar
Herman Hum Herman Hum is offline
Brigadier General
Canada
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,369
Herman Hum has a spectacular aura about [400]
Herman Hum has a spectacular aura about [400]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TacCovert4 View Post
...could be a highly effective way of temporarily denying a portion of ocean to the enemy fleet.
That portion of ocean would also be denied to allied vessels, as an active torpedo has no friends.
__________________
ScenShare Guidelines:

1) Enjoy creating it
2) Enjoy playing it
3) Enjoy sharing it
4) Enjoy helping others create them

The PlayersDB - The Harpoon Community's #1 Choice.

FAQ http://www.harplonkhq.com/Harpoon/Fr...dQuestions.htm
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12 Sep 17, 22:57
General_Jacke's Avatar
General_Jacke General_Jacke is offline
Captain
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Travis Tomaszkiewicz
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: council bluffs
Posts: 709
General_Jacke is on the path to success [1-99] General_Jacke is on the path to success [1-99] General_Jacke is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by nastle View Post
The NK navy probably has the same strategy
i don't think so. in general it seems they're just focused on keeping SK patrol boats in the south, and larger vessels are just kind of a token force to make their enemies think twice. i think their main naval doctrine will be primarily based around shore batteries or missiles and artillery.
__________________
the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
A man dies and leaves his name,
A teacher dies and teaches death.
Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 13 Sep 17, 01:02
Poor Old Spike's Avatar
Poor Old Spike Poor Old Spike is offline
Colonel
UK
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: England
Posts: 1,579
Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwaha View Post
If your radar mast is 10' high and the curvature of the earth limits direct LOS to:
d1 = Horizon distance3.872399 miles
h1 = Target hidden height 195.6280 feet.
https://dizzib.github.io/earth/curve...&unit=imperial
This is why airborne radar is so important for modern naval fights.
Yeah, planes and helos radars can see the big picture over the horizon because ships keep their radars switched off as much as possible.
The instant they're switched on they give away the ships position for many miles around, like when Frodo put on the Ring and broadcast his position to Sauron and the Nazgul who began homing in on him..
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 13 Sep 17, 08:52
nastle's Avatar
nastle nastle is offline
Colonel
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lemont Illinois
Posts: 1,637
nastle is on the path to success [1-99] nastle is on the path to success [1-99] nastle is on the path to success [1-99] nastle is on the path to success [1-99] nastle is on the path to success [1-99] nastle is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herman Hum View Post
That portion of ocean would also be denied to allied vessels, as an active torpedo has no friends.
Usually littoral navies don't have a lot of majors surface vessels trying to exercise C control
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 13 Sep 17, 08:56
nastle's Avatar
nastle nastle is offline
Colonel
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lemont Illinois
Posts: 1,637
nastle is on the path to success [1-99] nastle is on the path to success [1-99] nastle is on the path to success [1-99] nastle is on the path to success [1-99] nastle is on the path to success [1-99] nastle is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
Yeah, planes and helos radars can see the big picture over the horizon because ships keep their radars switched off as much as possible.
The instant they're switched on they give away the ships position for many miles around, like when Frodo put on the Ring and broadcast his position to Sauron and the Nazgul who began homing in on him..
So let's say surface ship like a destroyer or a frigate has sea Sparrow install for air defense and is currently under attack by anti-ship missiles they will have their Radars turn on that means they will be a magnet for other anti-ship missiles as well?

Did the soviet Ssn 12 Ssn 7 and Ssn 3c cruise missiles recieved active guidance from the ship's onboard radar to hit their targets ? I was under the assumption that They Carried their own radar in the terminal phase and in the initial phase they were targeted by Over the Horizon guidance system that is all except the p120 ssn7
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 13 Sep 17, 08:58
nastle's Avatar
nastle nastle is offline
Colonel
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lemont Illinois
Posts: 1,637
nastle is on the path to success [1-99] nastle is on the path to success [1-99] nastle is on the path to success [1-99] nastle is on the path to success [1-99] nastle is on the path to success [1-99] nastle is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by General_Jacke View Post
i don't think so. in general it seems they're just focused on keeping SK patrol boats in the south, and larger vessels are just kind of a token force to make their enemies think twice. i think their main naval doctrine will be primarily based around shore batteries or missiles and artillery.
Does the coastline of North Korea permit these torpedo boats be used in hit and run tactics allowing the torpedo boats to hide in the coves in let's and the jagged coastline?
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 13 Sep 17, 15:38
General_Jacke's Avatar
General_Jacke General_Jacke is offline
Captain
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Travis Tomaszkiewicz
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: council bluffs
Posts: 709
General_Jacke is on the path to success [1-99] General_Jacke is on the path to success [1-99] General_Jacke is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by nastle View Post
Does the coastline of North Korea permit these torpedo boats be used in hit and run tactics allowing the torpedo boats to hide in the coves in let's and the jagged coastline?
i don't think so, but i haven't really studied the NK coast line. i don't believe there are too many tiny islets or little coves for them to hide in though.
__________________
the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
A man dies and leaves his name,
A teacher dies and teaches death.
Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:23.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.