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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Military/History Related Hobbies > Research, Reference and Historical Study > Science

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  #976  
Old 14 Dec 17, 23:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
Hmm...if the government is using the GW "myth" as an excuse to squeeze taxes from the big oil/coal companies, why don't the companies hit back by commissioning teams of scientists to prove it is just a myth?
Being a heretic of AWG is death to a climate scientist because they will never be funded again.

See this thread for comments by actual scientists and actual facts:
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...d.php?t=179246
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  #977  
Old Yesterday, 14:20
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Originally Posted by Pirate-Drakk View Post
Except that Newton's Laws got us to Luna and back and have been rigorously tested with scientific "experimentation".

There is no such thing as "experimental climate science" because you can't "poke" a planet and see what happens.

We have some significant observational data from one planet in the entire universe. We can barely measure the weather on other planets in our Solar System, and we have NO DATA on planets in other Solar Systems.

So, we basically have a graph with 1 data point. When you fit a curve to 1 data point, you can fit ANY curve. That is "climate science".


Make the curve fit the Socialist agenda!
I agree with you that ACC/AGW is a political (socialist) agenda.

IIRC, some date shows CO2 levels lag slightly behind the temperature increases suggesting more of a "coincidence" curve rather than a causative one.

One major natural factor it seems has been overlooked and may be several times greater than the increase of CO2 is the decrease/decline in planetary flora biomass. Deforestation over the past couple of centuries could be of more impact as flora biomass which would use the CO2 has declined. Back in the early 19th century, this Western part of my state(Washington) was covered in more trees/forest than now. Most of those in the coastal lowlands were removed for lumber use and to clear land for farming; as just one example.

There is a sort of "climate experiment" that might be done. Take a large vacuum vessel(chamber) and fill it with basic "dry" air mixture, starting at 300ppm for CO2 level. Have a heating unit at the bottom and with a rather tall vessel use, measure the amount and rate of heat rising thru to the top. At the top have a heat sink that will absorb the "heat" that has risen. In steps increase the CO2 ratio, maybe in increments of 25 ppm, and measure the change in amount and speed of heat absorption versus transit to the top.
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  #978  
Old Yesterday, 14:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
My original reply quoted below, which is not a step back :
OK, you remain as deluded as always.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
The IPCC model is not totally correct, just as Newtons Laws are not totally correct. This does not make them fundamentally wrong, just a case of fine tuning being required.
More like the IPCC model(s) are intentionally distorted and not connected to reality, hence a political agenda displayed. Error of over stating and miscalculation of 100%+ is more than just a case of "fine tuning" error, and suggests something fundamentally wrong if this level of deception is needed to "make the case".
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  #979  
Old Yesterday, 17:23
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If create a government body, offer unlimited funding based on a mandate to discover a particular reality, that reality will be found by said body. It's hard to believe that people are so ignorant of history to think that the government has their best interest as it's top priority.
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  #980  
Old Yesterday, 22:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G David Bock View Post
There is a sort of "climate experiment" that might be done. Take a large vacuum vessel(chamber) and fill it with basic "dry" air mixture, starting at 300ppm for CO2 level. Have a heating unit at the bottom and with a rather tall vessel use, measure the amount and rate of heat rising thru to the top. At the top have a heat sink that will absorb the "heat" that has risen. In steps increase the CO2 ratio, maybe in increments of 25 ppm, and measure the change in amount and speed of heat absorption versus transit to the top.
These experiments have already been done, but they only tell you the specific heat of CO2, and the absorption spectrum. They tell you nothing about climate.

The climate is a complex system dominated by THE SUN. The first, and most flawed assumption of climate models, is that the Solar output is constant on time scales longer than the ~22 year Sun Spot cycle.

Physics tells us that systems in dynamic equilibrium (like the Sun) oscillate, and those oscillations have a spectrum of periods on various time scales. (This is why radio waves have side bands...) To ignore this FACT is simply bad science.

Of course, we have no long term measure of the Solar output, and even with our present technology, it is not a trivial measurement to make because the surface of Sol is not of uniform luminosity, and we only have discrete points in near Earth space, to make these measurements with satellites. Toss in a few thousand Solar flares and your measurements get muddled and error rich.

The Earth is so sensitive to the Sun, that a luminosity change of +/-1% is the difference between the entire planet being an ice ball or a desert.

When the primary energy source in your system varies in an unknown fashion, blaming any other minor factors for variations is a joke.

For nearly 30 years I have been working in physics labs conducting experiments on a daily basis. These experiments involve physics machines costing $100,000,000+s. Designing experiments and interpreting the results is what I do. When I look at what is called "climate science" I get a throbbing headache. The science side is so bad, and the doomsday claims so onerous, that it shouldn't be taken seriously.
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