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  #451  
Old 06 Dec 17, 06:02
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I don't know if Lee's tactics were old, but they WERE effective. He lost because Grant had more men, more food, more ammo, and more HORSES haha. Seriously, Lee lost because he didn't have the material to sustain a war effort.

Plus Chancellorsville.

He lost W. Virginia but who cares? Some of that had to do with Lee's administration, not his tactical ability.
All the reasons you cite for Lee losing to Grant were true with every Union commander who came before him as well. That being the case, it must also have something, actually a lot, to do with Grants ability as well.

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Last edited by D1J1; 06 Dec 17 at 06:08.. Reason: Add quote
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  #452  
Old 06 Dec 17, 10:11
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Originally Posted by American87 View Post
I don't know if Lee's tactics were old, but they WERE effective. He lost because Grant had more men, more food, more ammo, and more HORSES haha. Seriously, Lee lost because he didn't have the material to sustain a war effort.

Plus Chancellorsville.

He lost W. Virginia but who cares? Some of that had to do with Lee's administration, not his tactical ability.
What do you mean, "plus Chancellorsville"? Are you saying that battle is one of the reasons Lee lost?
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  #453  
Old 06 Dec 17, 14:27
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Originally Posted by D1J1 View Post
All the reasons you cite for Lee losing to Grant were true with every Union commander who came before him as well. That being the case, it must also have something, actually a lot, to do with Grants ability as well.

Regards,
Dennis
Sure, the difference between Grant and former commanders is that he had the balls to use the Northern war machine. It cost him, bigtime. Cold Harbor is only the most prominent example.
Other commanders were either replaced after losing a battle, or didn't have it in them to start a war of attrition.
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  #454  
Old 06 Dec 17, 14:28
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What do you mean, "plus Chancellorsville"? Are you saying that battle is one of the reasons Lee lost?
I'm saying it's an example of his tactics being effective.
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  #455  
Old 06 Dec 17, 19:46
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I'm saying it's an example of his tactics being effective.
I say it's an example of luck. If Hooker would not have been immobilized for whatever reason, Lee dividing his army in the face of a superior enemy would have been catastrophic.
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  #456  
Old 06 Dec 17, 20:09
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Originally Posted by American87 View Post
I don't know if Lee's tactics were old, but they WERE effective. He lost because Grant had more men, more food, more ammo, and more HORSES haha. Seriously, Lee lost because he didn't have the material to sustain a war effort.
Plus Chancellorsville.
He lost W. Virginia but who cares? Some of that had to do with Lee's administration, not his tactical ability.
Yes, as a wargamer, there are many ACW strategic-level wargames around and they've all got one thing in common- the Union player will always win because the North has more of everything!
I'd have thought the Southern politicians would have done their sums before starting the war, that way they'd never have started it knowing it was unwinnable because they couldn't beat the maths!
No doubt they announced Secession and were keeping their fingers crossed hoping the North would let them get away with it without a shot being fired.
As it was, they gambled and lost..
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  #457  
Old 07 Dec 17, 03:01
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I say it's an example of luck. If Hooker would not have been immobilized for whatever reason, Lee dividing his army in the face of a superior enemy would have been catastrophic.
If...

It would have been interesting if Hooker advanced against Lee's two divisions. Sure they might have retreated, but Hooker would've discoverd Jackson in his rear.
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  #458  
Old 07 Dec 17, 04:26
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Well I'm not really enough of an expert on chancellorsville to get into what ifs, but my impression is that Hooker's delay allowed time for Jackson to make his march. Hooker should have attacked on the morning of May 2. This would not have allowed Jackson to make his march.
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  #459  
Old 07 Dec 17, 14:07
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I'm saying it's an example of his tactics being effective.
Actually if old Joe Hooker hadn't retreated the day he did Lee was about to destroy his own army....

I mean he was planning on attacking Hooker the next day LLMAO.... would have been a bloodbath along the lines of Franklin
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  #460  
Old 07 Dec 17, 16:36
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Originally Posted by jonny87kz View Post
Well I'm not really enough of an expert on chancellorsville to get into what ifs, but my impression is that Hooker's delay allowed time for Jackson to make his march. Hooker should have attacked on the morning of May 2. This would not have allowed Jackson to make his march.
I mean maybe. A lot of things could've happened, and Lee could've devised some tactic to win even if Hooker attacked.
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Old 07 Dec 17, 16:37
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Actually if old Joe Hooker hadn't retreated the day he did Lee was about to destroy his own army....

I mean he was planning on attacking Hooker the next day LLMAO.... would have been a bloodbath along the lines of Franklin
What do you mean he was planning to attack Hooker the next day?
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  #462  
Old 07 Dec 17, 17:12
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What do you mean he was planning to attack Hooker the next day?
Lee was planning on attacking Hooker's 70,000 man beachhead the day after the night he withdrew (May 6-7?). Hooker's retreat beat him to the punch.

If Lee would have attacked Hookers final position he would have been SLAUGHTERED. Like cold harbor slaughtered. He was lucky Hooker didn't give him a chance to destroy himself.
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