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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Africa

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Africa Issues of modern Africa.

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  #46  
Old 14 Dec 13, 19:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones View Post
Some of you pretend that South Africa was the center of racism in the west. It was not, it existed all throughout the European nations and colonies. When those practices were ended in more stable areas of the western world, the white South Africans were left behind to take the blame. Apartheid was a result of the end of the colonial era. It was not a result of anything the white people of South Africa did themselves. They inherited an impossible situation.
Kinda lost me, somewhat, but I'll make the best of it and press on.

I don't presume it was the center of racism in the west because I don't consider South Africa, or Africa-proper for that matter, as being the the west I recognize.

Indeed, quite. It existed in quite a few forms and in more than a few places. However, I'm somehow stuck that while the vics changed here and there, the perps in laaarge degree remind the same in a particularly noteworthy quality. This require elaboration and expansion?

After the "stability" of the western world, who else was blame worthy?

Apartheid was part and parcel of the colonial era, and into it's aftermath until it's end.

If white people didn't do it themselves, who did? Was apartheid something the recipients and residents under it something they conferred to the whites as part of the welcoming festivities? Yeah, like a door that was presented to go along with the city or regional keys?

Inherited! WHAT?! Who was practicing it before they showed up and left it to them in the last will and testament or in the cookie jar to find for themselves?

Just WOW. Talk about blaming the vics. Jeez. Next you'll be like mm the minor, and stating apartheid raised those peoples' standard of living and improved their overall position and station in life prior to apartheid's advent for which a measure of gratitude might be fortcoming.
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  #47  
Old 15 Dec 13, 02:09
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A point of clarification about the article. The writer states that Genocide Watch warns that Whites in South Africa are imperiled by impending genocide. Is this true? Not really. Genocide Watch recently downgraded South Africa from Stage 6 "Preparation" to stage 5 "Polarization". It currently ranks below 29 other countries, such as India and Uzbekistan. Furthermore, its position in stage 6 "Preparation" was a one year occurrence - with it being at the lower stage 5 "Polarization" for the 10 years previous. Genocide Watch also pointed out that a recent South African court ruling that the old anti-apartheid song "Kill the Boer" constitutes hate speech and the removal of Julius Malema as President of the ANC Youth League and his expulsion from the ANC seemed to be steps moving in a positive direction.

http://www.genocidewatch.org/images/...eport_2012.pdf
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  #48  
Old 15 Dec 13, 03:40
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Thank you for that Skolbin. And I apologize if I was harsh. I feel that we are being polarized to fight each other. We need to stop this whether black or white or any other color. We all lose in the end if we can't get over this. We have to learn not to fear the other. This was my lesson after the cold war. I don't fear the Russians. They have the same fears and concerns as me.

Can we get along?
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  #49  
Old 15 Dec 13, 12:57
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Originally Posted by Bwaha View Post
Thank you for that Skolbin. And I apologize if I was harsh. I feel that we are being polarized to fight each other. We need to stop this whether black or white or any other color. We all lose in the end if we can't get over this. We have to learn not to fear the other. This was my lesson after the cold war. I don't fear the Russians. They have the same fears and concerns as me.

Can we get along?
We should and we can get along Bwaha. Some issues are divisive, but good men can debate and be friends simultaneously. I share your sentiment.
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  #50  
Old 15 Dec 13, 13:20
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One of the reasons that I hold these as the best warriors in the world is their motto. So others may live.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...rce_Pararescue

It has the hardest qualification tests, the hardest training for any special ops team, and the highest washout rate.

If you want to get a view of the **** they go through watch this series.

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  #51  
Old 15 Dec 13, 13:30
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Originally Posted by Bwaha View Post
One of the reasons that I hold these as the best warriors in the world is their motto. So others may live.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...rce_Pararescue

It has the hardest qualification tests, the hardest training for any special ops team, and the highest washout rate.

If you want to get a view of the **** they go through watch this series.

relvance, or wrong thread
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  #52  
Old 15 Dec 13, 14:01
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Relevance, its not the color or size of the dog. It's his heart.

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Last edited by Bwaha; 15 Dec 13 at 14:22..
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  #53  
Old 15 Dec 13, 14:34
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come on this is SA we all so have PJs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_Medical_Battalion_Group

"Audacissimos Servamus" Serving the bravest

hell our normall medics are bad ass
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operati...edical_Orderly
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  #54  
Old 15 Dec 13, 14:43
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Isn't the highest calling to risk your life for the other?

I didn't know SA had a pj qualifying group.

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  #55  
Old 15 Dec 13, 14:49
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Isn't the highest calling to risk your life for the other?
You'd think, right? I've certainly seen enough people risk their lives for much less in terms of practical worth.

Reminds me of yet another popular yard sign I've seen here in Tejas...

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  #56  
Old 15 Dec 13, 14:50
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yep they have a 6 hour deployment noitce. Though the meics who have just done the parabat course and then the speciol forces course. In terms of medical training a reguler medic can get to the same level.
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  #57  
Old 15 Dec 13, 14:58
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I've been though the cold war **** where I was willing to kill millions of innocents. It's better to let others live rather than the kill them all...

Wiki the agm-69. The dial a nuke. And the over the shoulder was awesome...
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  #58  
Old 15 Dec 13, 15:31
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Let me revisit the topic, momentarily. This madness...

Quote:
My immediate reaction was that the intended outcome -- universal suffrage and black majority rule -- was crazy. Don't misunderstand me, as I believed that perpetuating apartheid was morally problematic and unrealistic. Yet I also said that the end result of the world's little plan for SA would be the extermination of the whites. So I drew a logical conclusion: the country should be partitioned. --- Selwyn Duke.
No misunderstanding from me, Mr. Duke. None whatsoever. "...morally problematic and unrealistic".

Holy Jesus. Just what in hell would your understanding be if you and many like you in all things applicable were the ones on the shitty end of the apartheid stick? Just "morally problematic and unrealistic"? That all? Please.

You have one thing right. Your fear or thought of retribution from those once subjected to apartheid's bitterest aspects; and while recognizing Skolbin's on-balls contribution. You should be; even though a USA resident, kissing Mandela's cold dead ass and feet as a lesser man or men would have likely or possibly taken a road many others have taken when the tables got turned. It happens you know. I'm not even all that sure in my most optimistic best that I'd take a Mandela Path. Not as a leader of a country, but more much highly condensed and personalized version. Meaning, had that been done or anything like or resembling it and saying your family did it to me and mine and the worm turned, buddy, there'd be hell to pay and with a heavy, heavy interest-penalty. I'm talking medieval, Jack. Big Time. Vlad The Impaler might even be impressed.

I can't say for sure pal, but if moved to speculate, I'd wager the Götterdämmerung scenario you postulated is based in part, sum, or whole in fear, and on more than one level.

Hmmm. Damn. Old saying. It's been a long time. Hope I get it at least half-way right...

"Guilt cries out for punishment".

Close, if no cigar. Point is Duke (any relation to David?) in a good many historic examples, if you dished it out, you have it comin'.

Be blessedly knee-bent thankful Nelson Mandela didn't have like sentiments as a good many of the formerly oppressed don't harbor either. Otherwise you'd and if there, would be screwed, dude.
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Old 15 Dec 13, 16:45
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Let me revisit the topic, momentarily. This madness...



No misunderstanding from me, Mr. Duke. None whatsoever. "...morally problematic and unrealistic".

Holy Jesus. Just what in hell would your understanding be if you and many like you in all things applicable were the ones on the shitty end of the apartheid stick? Just "morally problematic and unrealistic"? That all? Please.

You have one thing right. Your fear or thought of retribution from those once subjected to apartheid's bitterest aspects; and while recognizing Skolbin's on-balls contribution. You should be; even though a USA resident, kissing Mandela's cold dead ass and feet as a lesser man or men would have likely or possibly taken a road many others have taken when the tables got turned. It happens you know. I'm not even all that sure in my most optimistic best that I'd take a Mandela Path. Not as a leader of a country, but more much highly condensed and personalized version. Meaning, had that been done or anything like or resembling it and saying your family did it to me and mine and the worm turned, buddy, there'd be hell to pay and with a heavy, heavy interest-penalty. I'm talking medieval, Jack. Big Time. Vlad The Impaler might even be impressed.

I can't say for sure pal, but if moved to speculate, I'd wager the Götterdämmerung scenario you postulated is based in part, sum, or whole in fear, and on more than one level.

Hmmm. Damn. Old saying. It's been a long time. Hope I get it at least half-way right...

"Guilt cries out for punishment".

Close, if no cigar. Point is Duke (any relation to David?) in a good many historic examples, if you dished it out, you have it comin'.

Be blessedly knee-bent thankful Nelson Mandela didn't have like sentiments as a good many of the formerly oppressed don't harbor either. Otherwise you'd and if there, would be screwed, dude.
When any ethnic or tribal group puts its' interests ahead of the interests of other ethnic groups, disparate results will surely happen. Claiming that Mandela is a saint because he did not commit genocide against the whites is just the same as claiming that South African whites were inferior beings that needed to be exterminated. It is equally true that South African whites did not commit genocide against the blacks.

Look at both sides of the equation, that is the only way to gain an understanding about impossible situations.
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Old 15 Dec 13, 17:34
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1. When any ethnic or tribal group puts its' interests ahead of the interests of other ethnic groups, disparate results will surely happen.

2. Claiming that Mandela is a saint...

3. ...because he did not commit genocide against the whites is just the same as claiming that South African whites were inferior beings that needed to be exterminated.

4. It is equally true that South African whites did not commit genocide against the blacks.

5. Look at both sides of the equation, that is the only way to gain an understanding about impossible situations.
1. In my view, and somewhat partially, you have it backwards. When disparity is inherent and/or artificially induced, it is then that interests, best or otherwise, are assessed and prioritized.

2. Besides you at the moment, who's claiming or in positive affirmation that Mandela is a saint? Not I.

3. I didn't use the word "genocide". You, and I believe Duke, have. You just now, for sure. For the most part, I used apartheid, except by inference to a much harsher form of retribution in my condensed example had the tables turned between Duke's family and my own and even then I said it would be a very 'heavy, heavy interest penalty' and with no allusion to it being a fatal one. In any event, Mandela didn't, period. Anything following is rendered moot.

4. Mootsville then. I didn't state they did, and we're, rather you now once more, are back to the word genocide yet another time.

5. What side of the equation, and how does it equate, and to whom?
Which situation, and it's subsequent side, and which is impossible?
The initial/initiation side and who began it? The side that endured it?
The beginning apartheid and aftermath for whites?
The post-apartheid effects for blacks and coloreds?
The collective aftermath side up to this point?

If ^that^, I'm afraid andrewza is going to have to pop in for an assist as the man-on-the-scene and effect. I can only go so far.
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