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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Warfare Through the Ages > The Medieval Era

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The Medieval Era Discussions on Knights and Crusaders, and all things medieval!

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  #31  
Old 12 Jan 18, 16:08
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If anyone likes the romance shown between Princess Isabella and Wallace, keep in mind that Isabella was married to Edward II when she was 12 years old. In some historian's eyes Eddy II was not that gay, either.

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  #32  
Old 12 Jan 18, 16:49
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I confess I love this movie. Not looking for anything historical out of it. Good flick, one of the best "man movies" ever made.

If it's on TV and I'm flipping I'll certainly watch.
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  #33  
Old 12 Jan 18, 18:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
McGoohan as Edward I ("The Hammer of the Scots") stole the show, Gibson's character should never have messed with him..

He's nearly the only reason to still watch the film. The battle scenes are now very outdated, as is the sentiment, but I still consider the initial love story, and Wallace's retribution of his love lost, to remain above the bar.

However, the single most important impact of this film still remains political, despite its lack of historical accuracy.
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  #34  
Old 12 Jan 18, 20:09
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Ironically the Scots had a referendum 3 years ago to break away from the UK and become independent, but they had the good sense to vote to stay in..
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  #35  
Old 12 Jan 18, 20:23
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Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
Ironically the Scots had a referendum 3 years ago to break away from the UK and become independent, but they had the good sense to vote to stay in..
No, we were promised the heavens if we stayed in, and an end to old-age pensions, disability benefits, forced repatriation of foreigners (despite the fact that the people who usually profess the latter being on the other side), expulsion from the EU, closing shipyards and tax centres, the destruction of the NHS, etc. etc. if we left.

Enough disabled people and pensioners were threatened into producing a narrow victory for the status quo, and enough idiots really believed in, "Faster and safer Change," to win a narrow, "No," victory.

Everyone who placed their faith in the UK has been betrayed in the past three years, and that's why the independence movement has never gone away, and support for independence has only increased.
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  #36  
Old 13 Jan 18, 07:14
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Poor Old Spike wrote- Ironically the Scots had a referendum 3 years ago to break away from the UK and become independent, but they had the good sense to vote to stay in..
------------------------------------------------------

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Originally Posted by the ace View Post
No, we were promised the heavens if we stayed in.....Everyone who placed their faith in the UK has been betrayed in the past three years..
If Scotland split from the UK-
1- She'd have no Armed Forces of her own and would have to scrape together her own army/navy/air force consisting of a bunch of crofters armed with pitchforks, a few rowing boats and a couple of Sopwith Camels, and she's not a nuclear power like England, so if Putin invaded Scotland she'd have to throw stones at him.
The English/Scottish/Welsh and Irish have stood shoulder-to-shoulder on battlefields for at least 600 years as a winning team, but if Scotland goes independent Scots would probably be classed as foreigners and not allowed to join the UK army/navy/air force.

2- An Independent Scotland would mean that the thousands of Scots now living in England would be regarded as "scrounging immigrants" by the English-
"There are more Scots in England than any city in Scotland. It might sound surprising, but according to the latest census figures, there are about 750,000 people born in Scotland who live south of the border. That's more than the population of Edinburgh or Glasgow"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27655496


3- An independent Scotland would soon be struggling economically in today's big bad world, but at least there'd be no more Scottish Members of Parliament or Scottish Prime Ministers in England..

PS- Since the referendum showed that almost half of all Scots want to be independent, I've noticed that the English have now cooled off towards Scots in general and are muttering "If they don't like England why don't the ones that are here bugger off back to Scotland?"

Last edited by Poor Old Spike; 13 Jan 18 at 07:25..
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  #37  
Old 13 Jan 18, 09:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the ace View Post
No, we were promised the heavens if we stayed in, and an end to old-age pensions, disability benefits, forced repatriation of foreigners (despite the fact that the people who usually profess the latter being on the other side), expulsion from the EU, closing shipyards and tax centres, the destruction of the NHS, etc. etc. if we left.

Enough disabled people and pensioners were threatened into producing a narrow victory for the status quo, and enough idiots really believed in, "Faster and safer Change," to win a narrow, "No," victory.

Everyone who placed their faith in the UK has been betrayed in the past three years, and that's why the independence movement has never gone away, and support for independence has only increased.
Yeah, you're probably all going to turn out the next time you're allowed to vote, providing that it's not raining and you get up in time.

I enjoyed the movie, just like I enjoyed the Patriot. Neither were historically accurate, but they were entertaining. Given that I had never heard of William Wallace before, the accuracy did not impact my enjoyment.

I did assume that, like 99% of war movies, it only paid lip service to history, fact, and reality.

I do prefer it over Rob Roy because the accents in the latter made the endless dialogue a bit harder to follow. But both are good shows which use the names of actual historical people and actors who are not Scottish.
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  #38  
Old 13 Jan 18, 10:35
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What an incredibly motivating film Brave heart was. No movie, not a single one, is going to every single historical detail right when it comes to movies based on real people/events, but all in all Braveheart was awesome.
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  #39  
Old 13 Jan 18, 10:38
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Also there are perceived anti American films as their are films like Braveheart which might be viewed as anti English/British.

Braveheart will go down as one of the greatest in film history.

Both the historical and anti British argument do not hold up for Braveheart. Thats just Hollywood for you, no movie will ever get every single little historical detail right, and sometimes movies will be made that might offend people, Braveheart for the Brits, Battle for Hadithia(btw directed by a Brit) for Americans, and for exaple Not Without My Daughter for Iranians.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_for_Haditha

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_Wi...Daughter_(film)
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  #40  
Old 13 Jan 18, 10:43
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What an incredibly motivating film Brave heart was. No movie, not a single one, is going to every single historical detail right when it comes to movies based on real people/events, but all in all Braveheart was awesome.
It got 99% wrong. It was as bad as Gladiator. Feeble films for the feeble minded.

Do you have any Scot blood btw? just curious?
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Old 13 Jan 18, 11:04
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It got 99% wrong. It was as bad as Gladiator. Feeble films for the feeble minded.

Do you have any Scot blood btw? just curious?
Braveheart
8.4/10IMDb
77%Rotten Tomatoes
4.7/5iTunes - Apple
91% liked this movie -Google users


Its one thing to bring up the historical inaccuracies of Hollywood produced films. But far from being a "feeble film for the feeble minded", across the board Braveheart is praised. But even to this day some folks are critical of otherwise great films like To Kill A Mockingbird or Blazing Saddles....Braveheart while critically praised across the board... like any film has its detractors perhaps yourself included.



I have Scottish ancestors, do you have any Scottish Ancestors?
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  #42  
Old 13 Jan 18, 11:10
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Originally Posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
Braveheart
8.4/10IMDb
77%Rotten Tomatoes
4.7/5iTunes - Apple
91% liked this movie -Google users


Its one thing to bring up the historical inaccuracies of Hollywood produced films. But far from being a "feeble film for the feeble minded", across the board Braveheart is praised. But even to this day some folks are critical of otherwise great films like To Kill A Mockingbird or Blazing Saddles....Braveheart while critically praised across the board... like any film has its detractors perhaps yourself included.



I have Scottish ancestors, do you have any Scottish Ancestors?
Praised by feeble minded people.

My Grandmother was a full blooded, hard to bloody understand when she fired up Cameron. I think I'm a tad qualified to talk on this.
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  #43  
Old 13 Jan 18, 19:35
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It got 99% wrong. It was as bad as Gladiator.


Braveheart was about nationalism. Gladiator was about a dude, 'The Spaniard'. A White Australian Spaniard Person who did't speak Spanish afaik.

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Feeble films for the feeble minded.

Do you have any Scot blood btw? just curious?
I have two half blood Scottish uncles. Their mother is from Jersey, born and bred.

I liked Gladiator because it's about a dude who gets really crapped on, despite his ability and loyalty, yet gets his revenge. Very watchable, especially 'Zama'.
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  #44  
Old 14 Jan 18, 09:42
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Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post


Braveheart was about nationalism. Gladiator was about a dude, 'The Spaniard'. A White Australian Spaniard Person who did't speak Spanish afaik.



I have two half blood Scottish uncles. Their mother is from Jersey, born and bred.

I liked Gladiator because it's about a dude who gets really crapped on, despite his ability and loyalty, yet gets his revenge. Very watchable, especially 'Zama'.
Gladiator was essentially a remake of an earlier film The Fall of the Roman Empire (1964). Both completely historically inaccurate and implausible. Both Commodus and Maximus existed but in completely different periods - centuries apart. Maximus was indeed a Roman General who rebelled against a much later emperor, and got killed for his pains. In doing so he pulled his soldiers out of Britain putting the province at great risk. Kipling based a story on this which would have made a far better film.
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Old 14 Jan 18, 10:03
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Anything that comes out of a TV screen nowadays is likely to be "manipulated" factually and historically, for example some of David Attenborough's wildlife shows are faked by showing us animals purportedly in the wild but were really filmed in zoos and marine parks etc.
As a christian I love the truth, so atheist Attenborough's phoney stuff sticks in my craw..
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