Desertion in the Civil War.

[67th Tigers]

Originally Posted by D1J1

I am speaking about Antietam as I stated above. Lee may well have begun his movement with around 75,000 but at the culminating event of the campaign he did not have them.

The question then is why Lee didn't have them.

Page 19 in the entry for September 10 shows in addressing the size of the rebel army, "the most liberal calculations could not give them more than 64,000 men. Over 3,000 negroes must be included in this number." At that point Lee is at least, and given the stated "most liberal" possible interpretation of his strength, certainly less than that. Given that he was reasonably accurate, lets say 85% and it could well have been less accurate, we have a rebel force of not 75,000 but rather approximately 51-52,000 maximum.

64,000 most liberal estimate
- 3,000 negroes
- 9,600 reduction to 85% of most liberal estimate
51,400 troops maximum


Regards,
Dennis

Excluding DH Hill (est. at 8,000 by Steiner when they passed, not included above), Walker (never at Frederick) and Stuart (again not at Frederick).

I'd question adding a fudge factor to make figures fit. Harsh gives the following forces crossing the Potomac (2nd September 1862 PFD):

Longstreet's Command: 19,628
Jackson's Command: 20,612
McLaws' Division: 7,652
DH Hill's Division: 9,754
Walker's Division: 5,199
Anderson's Division: 5,712
Stuart's Cavalry Division: 5,664
Artillery Reserve: 1,299
Army Total: 75,528

The force he saw and estimated at ~72,000 (inc. DH Hill, not excluding the colored men) was 64,657 "present for duty"* (which did exclude the colored men, but the 2-3,000 of them seem to be Jackson's 3 divisions only). Since it's an estimate of "aggregate present" he's probably about right on the money.

Thus it seems there was no major drop in strength crossing the Potomac. It happened later.

* 2nd September figures.

[D1J1]

Originally Posted by 67th Tigers

The question then is why Lee didn't have them.



Excluding DH Hill (est. at 8,000 by Steiner when they passed, not included above), Walker (never at Frederick) and Stuart (again not at Frederick).

I'd question adding a fudge factor to make figures fit. Harsh gives the following forces crossing the Potomac (2nd September 1862 PFD):

Longstreet's Command: 19,628
Jackson's Command: 20,612
McLaws' Division: 7,652
DH Hill's Division: 9,754
Walker's Division: 5,199
Anderson's Division: 5,712
Stuart's Cavalry Division: 5,664
Artillery Reserve: 1,299
Army Total: 75,528

The force he saw and estimated at ~72,000 (inc. DH Hill, not excluding the colored men) was 64,657 "present for duty"* (which did exclude the colored men, but the 2-3,000 of them seem to be Jackson's 3 divisions only). Since it's an estimate of "aggregate present" he's probably about right on the money.

Thus it seems there was no major drop in strength crossing the Potomac. It happened later.

* 2nd September figures.

Again, we, or at least I am talking about Antietam. The figure cited on September 10 was 64,000 at the most liberal. The author of the report himself stated it was the most liberal estimate he could give, hence the potential for a "fudge factor" is inserted by the author of the report.

You can't claim it to be definitive and not accept that. I see no reason whatsoever to not believe that an estimate of that type could be 85% accurate is in anyway out of line.

Regards,
Dennis

[D1J1]

Histories published by the US Army support the lesser number, and I figure they are more definitive than the source you cite.

From page 7 of the overview, (which is an abbreviated version of a much lengthier Staff Ride report), "The strength of the Army of Northern Virginia in July was almost 50,000 men. However, by the Battle of Antietam in mid-September, combat casualties, sickness, and straggling had reduced those numbers to roughly 35,000.7" The footnote is from a published book and found on page 602 of the OR.

Regards,
Dennis

[67th Tigers]

Originally Posted by D1J1

Histories published by the US Army support the lesser number, and I figure they are more definitive than the source you cite.

From page 7 of the overview, (which is an abbreviated version of a much lengthier Staff Ride report), "The strength of the Army of Northern Virginia in July was almost 50,000 men. However, by the Battle of Antietam in mid-September, combat casualties, sickness, and straggling had reduced those numbers to roughly 35,000.7" The footnote is from a published book and found on page 602 of the OR.

Regards,
Dennis

The Staff Ride might say that. If it does it is wrong.

The OR* shows a field return of ~ 70,000 PFD exclusive of Jackson's command and the Dept of Henrico. Jackson with his own and Ewell's infantry divisions and Robertson's cavalry brigade have no return.

*http://ebooks.library.cornell.edu/cg...image;seq=0647

[D1J1]

Fair enough. That leaves us in dispute for July, but still does nothing to show anywhere near that number for Antietam in September.

Regards,
Dennis

[67th Tigers]

Originally Posted by D1J1

Fair enough. That leaves us in dispute for July, but still does nothing to show anywhere near that number for Antietam in September.

Regards,
Dennis

Try appendix B of Hartwig's To Antietam Creek (amazon previews it starting pg 674).

[67th Tigers]

Actually, have a look at this recent Washington Post article I just came across: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...ellan-graphic/

[67th Tigers]

For example: