HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Weapons of War

Notices and Announcements

Weapons of War The machinery of warfare. .

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #856  
Old 12 May 12, 07:06
PacificSentinel's Avatar
PacificSentinel PacificSentinel is offline
First Lieutenant
Australia
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 568
PacificSentinel is on the path to success [1-99] PacificSentinel is on the path to success [1-99] PacificSentinel is on the path to success [1-99] PacificSentinel is on the path to success [1-99] PacificSentinel is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Persephone View Post
Yeah, but we all know that the USAF just wants to drop the type for cost saving purposes (it's loved in the field), & will say anything to get rid of a plane they never wanted to own, remember that the C-27J started out as a US Army program, but the USAF took it over because they hate it when anyone other than them fly fixed wing aircraft.


As for the story, it pretty much says it all in the last sentence.

Quote:
The required improvements and modifications outlined by DOT and E would be completed in the aircraft Australia would receive from 2015, he said.
__________________
Asia/Pacific Military Blog & Forum: http://PacificSentinel.blogspot.com

Last edited by PacificSentinel; 12 May 12 at 07:16.. Reason: added links
Reply With Quote
  #857  
Old 12 May 12, 09:05
kuma's Avatar
kuma kuma is offline
Lieutenant General
Philippines
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Manila
Posts: 3,166
kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100]
I think Airbus should have just accepted rejection with grace.
Reply With Quote
  #858  
Old 18 May 12, 06:46
Galland's Avatar
Galland Galland is offline
General of the Forums
Australia
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
ACG Football Manager of the Season ACG Football Manager of the Season 
 
Real Name: Mr Sparkle !!!!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Springfield
Posts: 9,034
Galland is simply cracking [600]
Galland is simply cracking [600] Galland is simply cracking [600] Galland is simply cracking [600] Galland is simply cracking [600] Galland is simply cracking [600] Galland is simply cracking [600] Galland is simply cracking [600] Galland is simply cracking [600] Galland is simply cracking [600] Galland is simply cracking [600] Galland is simply cracking [600]
i think the Europeans are still smarting at the way Australia selected the JSF and didnt tell the Dassault bidding team until they touched down on Australian soil that they can bugger off back home thanks..
Reply With Quote
  #859  
Old 26 May 12, 09:43
PacificSentinel's Avatar
PacificSentinel PacificSentinel is offline
First Lieutenant
Australia
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 568
PacificSentinel is on the path to success [1-99] PacificSentinel is on the path to success [1-99] PacificSentinel is on the path to success [1-99] PacificSentinel is on the path to success [1-99] PacificSentinel is on the path to success [1-99]
UV-Pacific 2012: Australian Navy to trial embarked UAVs << Shephard


I think out of those listed the Camcopter would be more useful for the RAN.
__________________
Asia/Pacific Military Blog & Forum: http://PacificSentinel.blogspot.com
Reply With Quote
  #860  
Old 26 May 12, 10:48
PitchRate's Avatar
PitchRate PitchRate is offline
Colonel
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Bob
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Great Mid-west
Posts: 1,558
PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200]
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificSentinel View Post
I think out of those listed the Camcopter would be more useful for the RAN.
Is there any information regarding the concept of operations for these UAVs which would then lead to the mission requirements? IMHO that is the primary data needed before a specific platform can be selected. The article did say one of the requirements would be interoperability.
Quote:
‘We have got to make sure there is interoperability, not just between our ships but between those others we play with and that’s one of the nuts we need to crack as well.’
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #861  
Old 26 May 12, 17:17
GCoyote's Avatar
GCoyote GCoyote is offline
ACG Forums - canis administrationem
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Gary C
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Posts: 19,181
GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Is that mainly a matter of data links or are there logistical issues as well?
__________________
Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

Questions about our site? See the FAQ.
Reply With Quote
  #862  
Old 26 May 12, 21:58
Galland's Avatar
Galland Galland is offline
General of the Forums
Australia
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
ACG Football Manager of the Season ACG Football Manager of the Season 
 
Real Name: Mr Sparkle !!!!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Springfield
Posts: 9,034
Galland is simply cracking [600]
Galland is simply cracking [600] Galland is simply cracking [600] Galland is simply cracking [600] Galland is simply cracking [600] Galland is simply cracking [600] Galland is simply cracking [600] Galland is simply cracking [600] Galland is simply cracking [600] Galland is simply cracking [600] Galland is simply cracking [600] Galland is simply cracking [600]
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificSentinel View Post
Well this clears up most of the questions.

---

QUESTIONS FROM DAVID ELLERY, THE CANBERRA TIMES

The Minister’s press release says the 10 C27Js will cost $1.4 billion (at a per unit price isn’t that close to/even more than the cost of a JSF?) What is the actual unit cost per plane and what is the support/spare parts/roof racks/hub caps and fox tail aerial decoration component?

Nine of these aircraft will be ones that the US is no longer taking. I understand the US price was around $30 – $31 million per unit – why are they costing us so much?

Airbus Military could have sold us 10 C295s for about $35 million per unit (representing a savings to the taxpayer of $1 billion). Is the additional capability alluded to by the Minister really worth three times as much?


The costs of $1.4 billion include the acquisition cost of the aircraft, modifications to the aircraft for equipment needed for specific ADF roles, initial logistics support (including spare parts, training, materiel handling equipment, technical data, management fees) testing and certification, and facilities. These costs are be applied to any aircraft platform chosen. The aircraft being acquired by Australia are new build aircraft.

The costs quoted by Airbus Military refer only to the cost of aircraft and do not account for these essential additional costs.

Airbus would be aware of these essential program costs being included in Defence projects through its own experience with the KC-30A Multi-Role Tanker Transport aircraft project.

Defence seeks to acquire the solution that best meets the operational requirements of the ADF. The C-27J flies higher, further, faster and can access more airfields in our area of interest and was chosen for performance, configuration and suitability.

LINK << AUS DoD (I just quoted the last part of the release.)

--

So I was right the first time, ALL of them are new build planes!

Reporters! I really wish they'd get it right BEFORE they put out the story!!
here is a follow up from David Ellery, he now states that the 1.4 billion being spent on these aircraft, and i quote..


Quote:
Mr Smith's $1.4 billion does not include through-life support costs. ''Defence will seek a separate agreement with Alenia [the manufacturer] in order to ensure RAAF can operate, maintain and modify the aircraft through its planned life,'' he told the conference.
Reply With Quote
  #863  
Old 08 Jun 12, 05:56
Achtung Baby's Avatar
Achtung Baby Achtung Baby is online now
General of the Forums
Armchair_General
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 SPQR Campaign Model Forum Group Build Victor 
Model Forum Group Build (Multiple - Ace) 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: ...
Posts: 15,446
Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Here is a article about UAVs in Australian service.

Quote:
"The capability? It’s like crack cocaine, a drug, for our guys involved."

Wing Commander Jonathan McMullan, RAAF Heron drone commander - Afghanistan


A senior Australian Defence Force officer has revealed details of how the Royal Australian Air Force deploys Israeli-owned drones for battlefield surveillance and to target anti-government Islamic fighters in Afghanistan.

Wing Commander Jonathan McMullan says Australia is "just buying hours" on the Heron drones from a Canadian company that in turn "leases them from IAI" (Israel Aerospace Industries), which is wholly owned by the Israeli government.

While enthusiastically endorsing the Heron's capabilities, Wing Commander McMullan was highly critical of the quality of training provided by Israeli and Canadian instructors to Australian drone crews.

The unarmed Israeli Herons first entered RAAF service in Afghanistan in December 2009.

They are the centrepiece of the ADF's rapidly expanding drone warfare capability that has so far cost an estimated $550 million.

Australian Defence Force chief General David Hurley told a Senate estimates hearing in Canberra late last month: "I wouldn't discount the fact that we might have armed UAVs thinking through our force structure review into the future."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-06-0...nistan/4058058

__________________
"In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
Ernest Hemingway.

First get your facts straight, then distort them at your leisure. - Mark Twain.
Reply With Quote
  #864  
Old 08 Jun 12, 06:41
Persephone's Avatar
Persephone Persephone is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls 
 
Real Name: Maggie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: The Left Coast
Posts: 13,513
Persephone has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Persephone has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Persephone has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Persephone has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Persephone has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Persephone has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Persephone has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Persephone has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Persephone has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Persephone has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Persephone has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Persephone has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Persephone has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Persephone has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
I can't wait to see Australia's first amphibious soldiers or "marines" come 2014. The Amphibious Ready Group will consist of more than 1000 troops, armored vehicles, helicopters and if necessary tanks and artillery, possibly supported by destroyers and jet fighters.
__________________
"Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

"A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee
Reply With Quote
  #865  
Old 08 Jun 12, 09:02
PitchRate's Avatar
PitchRate PitchRate is offline
Colonel
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Bob
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Great Mid-west
Posts: 1,558
PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200]
Quote:
So what is the difference between an American missile-armed Reaper and an unarmed Australian Heron that is capable of calling in an airstrike or artillery?

Andrew Davies from the Canberra-based Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) says "there is a semantic difference between direct and indirect fire support"………………

US Marines also operate the unarmed Shadow in Afghanistan. They're not so effusive. According to FlightGlobal.com: "On a recent deployment by a single unit, the Marines counted 94 'high-value targets' that escaped even though they were spotted." Frustrated, US Marines are now arming their Shadows, an upgrade the Australian Army is watching closely.

"We have no plans to arm them, nothing in the pipeline like that, but I'm led to believe there are some other programs through ... American Aircraft Industries to look at that feasibility," Lt Col Loynes (commanding officer of the Army's 20th Surveillance and Target Acquisition Regiment) said.
I think it is a mistake for the Australian defense forces to emphasize that their “RPAs” are not armed. To truly use the capability this type of platform provides, IMHO, they will have to be armed in the future. Since Australia is involved in combat action in Afghanistan, now would be the optimum time to introduce that capability. If not they are inviting lots of public opposition in the future should they try to introduce armed drones.
Reply With Quote
  #866  
Old 08 Jun 12, 15:11
Achtung Baby's Avatar
Achtung Baby Achtung Baby is online now
General of the Forums
Armchair_General
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 SPQR Campaign Model Forum Group Build Victor 
Model Forum Group Build (Multiple - Ace) 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: ...
Posts: 15,446
Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
I'm wondering if they are choosing to not use armed UAVs so as to avoid political fallout in the case of misidentifying a target. Or just until the operators have accumulated enough experience.
__________________
"In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
Ernest Hemingway.

First get your facts straight, then distort them at your leisure. - Mark Twain.
Reply With Quote
  #867  
Old 14 Jun 12, 20:26
GCoyote's Avatar
GCoyote GCoyote is offline
ACG Forums - canis administrationem
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Gary C
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Posts: 19,181
GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by PitchRate View Post
I think it is a mistake for the Australian defense forces to emphasize that their “RPAs” are not armed. To truly use the capability this type of platform provides, IMHO, they will have to be armed in the future. Since Australia is involved in combat action in Afghanistan, now would be the optimum time to introduce that capability. If not they are inviting lots of public opposition in the future should they try to introduce armed drones.
Politically I agree and in counter-terror operations the weaponized drones are invaluable. But as a former ground troop myself I can't tell you how many times I'd have given anything for fast safe way to peek over the next rise. IMO the video on these drones is the true "killer app".

(Pun intended. )
__________________
Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

Questions about our site? See the FAQ.
Reply With Quote
  #868  
Old 28 Jun 12, 08:49
Vitaly's Avatar
Vitaly Vitaly is offline
Staff Sergeant
Belgium
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Leuven
Posts: 126
Vitaly is on the path to success [1-99] Vitaly is on the path to success [1-99]
Gentlemen,

does somebody have on hands R.A.A.F. magazine "Wings" of 1943? In the end of summer or the first half of September '43, there should be paper (translation from Russian) by RKKA Major Nikolai Bogdanov named "Russian "Falcons" Strike Terror in Hearts of German Pilots". What was exact date and No. of this issue and pages? What is the reference to the original Russian publication (name of journal or newspaper, date, pages)?

Also, is there a photograph of pilot Aristotle Kavtaradze to whom this article was devoted to?
Reply With Quote
  #869  
Old 28 Jun 12, 09:02
Achtung Baby's Avatar
Achtung Baby Achtung Baby is online now
General of the Forums
Armchair_General
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 SPQR Campaign Model Forum Group Build Victor 
Model Forum Group Build (Multiple - Ace) 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: ...
Posts: 15,446
Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitaly View Post
Gentlemen,

does somebody have on hands R.A.A.F. magazine "Wings" of 1943? In the end of summer or the first half of September '43, there should be paper (translation from Russian) by RKKA Major Nikolai Bogdanov named "Russian "Falcons" Strike Terror in Hearts of German Pilots". What was exact date and No. of this issue and pages? What is the reference to the original Russian publication (name of journal or newspaper, date, pages)?

Also, is there a photograph of pilot Aristotle Kavtaradze to whom this article was devoted to?
I found this, but this is all I can help you with. http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/68824539
__________________
"In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
Ernest Hemingway.

First get your facts straight, then distort them at your leisure. - Mark Twain.
Reply With Quote
  #870  
Old 28 Jun 12, 11:17
Vitaly's Avatar
Vitaly Vitaly is offline
Staff Sergeant
Belgium
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Leuven
Posts: 126
Vitaly is on the path to success [1-99] Vitaly is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Achtung Baby View Post
I found this, but this is all I can help you with. http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/68824539
Thank you! I already had this :-)
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:34.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.