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  #1051  
Old 13 Jan 18, 19:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karri View Post
I suppose so, it's being touted about a lot. I doubt we have enough understanding to model anything to be honest. Everything is too complicated and interlinked for us to say what will happen. Something will happen, wouldn't be the first time drastic changes come about.
Bollocks. The Smoking Lobby knew that cigarettes caused cancer. The Energy Companies are using the same tactics to deny AGW. They were often using the same people.
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  #1052  
Old 14 Jan 18, 05:07
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Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
Bollocks. The Smoking Lobby knew that cigarettes caused cancer. The Energy Companies are using the same tactics to deny AGW. They were often using the same people.
Of course they deny as long as they make money, but that doesn't change the fact climate is too complex to predict(there's a reason why weather forecasts are still just forecasts). I only follow the matter here and there, and for example the effect of air and sea currents are just now starting to be "guessed". It's impossible to say how warm air, rains, sea currents etc will change with temperature changes. Those naturally have massive impact on which areas turn into deserts, savannas, lush forests and so on. Furthermore, they are all interconnected so one area turning into desert means more nutrients for another area...at least I recall, according to some theory, that the sand carried from Sahara by winds is a major fertilizer in large parts of Europe.
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  #1053  
Old 15 Jan 18, 18:53
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Climate isn't a thermostat that can be set to a stagnant and ideal temperature range. Global Climates (there's about a dozen varied climate zones per North and South hemisphere) are always in flux and if not warming away from an Ice Age, can be cooling towards one.

One alternative to ACC/AGW;
https://www.iceagenow.info/

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  #1054  
Old 15 Jan 18, 19:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G David Bock View Post
Climate isn't a thermostat that can be set to a stagnant and ideal temperature range. Global Climates (there's about a dozen varied climate zones per North and South hemisphere) are always in flux and if not warming away from an Ice Age, can be cooling towards one.

One alternative to ACC/AGW;
https://www.iceagenow.info/

Even if there was a 99% chance you were right about the climate, and you are not, if you have children, no decent parent would risk a 1% chance of their children's demise.

I have children.
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  #1055  
Old 15 Jan 18, 19:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfhnd View Post
Is there evidence that increased temperature will increase desertification?
No.

Decreased temperatures increase desertification. The climate of Pleistocene glacial stages was far more arid than interglacial stages.
The formation of an ice sheet or ice cap requires both prolonged cold and precipitation (snow). Hence, despite having temperatures similar to those of glaciated areas in North America and Europe, East Asia remained unglaciated except at higher elevations. This difference was because the ice sheets in Europe produced extensive anticyclones above them.

These anticyclones generated air masses that were so dry on reaching Siberia and Manchuria that precipitation sufficient for the formation of glaciers could never occur (except in Kamchatka where these westerly winds lifted moisture from the Sea of Japan). The relative warmth of the Pacific Ocean due to the shutting down of the Oyashio Current and the presence of large 'east-west' mountain ranges were secondary factors preventing continental glaciation in Asia.

All over the world, climates at the Last Glacial Maximum were cooler and almost everywhere drier. In extreme cases, such as South Australia and the Sahel, rainfall could be diminished by up to 90% from present, with florae diminished to almost the same degree as in glaciated areas of Europe and North America. Even in less affected regions, rainforest cover was greatly diminished, especially in West Africa where a few refugia were surrounded by tropical grasslands.

The Amazon rainforest was split into two large blocks by extensive savanna, and the tropical rainforests of Southeast Asia probably were similarly affected, with deciduous forests expanding in their place except on the east and west extremities of the Sundaland shelf. Only in Central America and the Chocó region of Colombia did tropical rainforests remain substantially intact – probably due to the extraordinarily heavy rainfall of these regions.

Most of the world's deserts expanded. Exceptions were in what is now the western United States, where changes in the jet stream brought heavy rain to areas that are now desert and large pluvial lakes formed, the best known being Lake Bonneville in Utah. This also occurred in Afghanistan and Iran, where a major lake formed in the Dasht-e Kavir.

In Australia, shifting sand dunes covered half the continent, whilst the Chaco and Pampas in South America became similarly dry. Present-day subtropical regions also lost most of their forest cover, notably in eastern Australia, the Atlantic Forest of Brazil, and southern China, where open woodland became dominant due to drier conditions. In northern China – unglaciated despite its cold climate – a mixture of grassland and tundra prevailed, and even here, the northern limit of tree growth was at least 20° farther south than today.

In the period before the Last Glacial Maximum, many areas that became completely barren desert were wetter than they are today, notably in southern Australia, where Aboriginal occupation is believed to coincide with a wet period between 40,000 and 60,000 years Before Present (BP, a formal measurement of uncalibrated radiocarbon years, counted from 1950 CE).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Glacial_Maximum
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  #1056  
Old 15 Jan 18, 19:24
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Quote:
Is there evidence that increased temperature will increase desertification?
Most uneducated quote ever, by anyone who understands climate.

Edited post

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Doctor View Post
No.

Decreased temperatures increase desertification. The climate of Pleistocene glacial stages was far more arid than interglacial stages.
.
.
<snip>
.
.
Really really really stupid answer. Temperature is only one variable.

The rest of the post was so bad it was unbelievable.

I personally find the AGW deniers position akin to that of a Nazi Fanboy love of the Panther tank. The view initially appears to have great merit, but fails in the real world, and in a huge number of areas.
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  #1057  
Old 15 Jan 18, 19:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
Most uneducated quote ever, by anyone who understands climate.

Edited post



Really really really stupid answer. Temperature is only one variable.

The rest of the post was so bad it was unbelievable.

I personally find the AGW deniers position akin to that of a Nazi Fanboy love of the Panther tank. The view initially appears to have great merit, but fails in the real world, and in a huge number of areas.
^Doubling down on a total ignorance of basic meteorology.^

Cold air is dry air.


The two points I've highlighted on the chart are:
  • Point A: 32° F, 100% RH
  • Point B: 70° F, 20% RH
At 32 °F 22 grains of water/lb of dry air is 100% saturated. At 70 °F 22 grains/lb is only 20% saturated.

The colder the average air temperature is, the less water vapor it can retain.
Few aspects of colder weather months can be as irritating as dry winter air. From fly-away hair to scaly skin, the cold winter air can wreak havoc on your body’s appearance. But did you know that dry winter air also can make you vulnerable to illness?

Breathing dry air can cause respiratory ailments such as asthma, bronchitis, sinusitis and nosebleeds. Breathing dry air also can cause dehydration, since body fluids are depleted during respiration.

“Your sinuses will dry out,” says Daniel Allan, MD. “The mucus that normally should be gooey and thick and can trap infection gets drier. So you’re more likely to get a cold because your mucus is not as able to catch things that you breathe in.”

Cold winter air is dry because it holds less moisture than warm air. Because wintertime humidity is so low, what little moisture that is around is quickly sucked up into the air. So moisture evaporates more quickly from your body, which dries out your skin, makes a desert of the inside of your nose and leaves your throat parched.
https://health.clevelandclinic.org/2...ry-winter-air/

The colder the average air temperature is, the more water gets locked up in ice.

The result... Colder temperatures lead to more arid conditions.
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  #1058  
Old 15 Jan 18, 19:50
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There are winners and loses depending on geography if the climate warms or cools. What we can say for certain that whatever we do it will not stay the same. My position is that there are more losers when it cools than when it warms. There is very little life under a mile of ice. For half of the world the last ice age was an extinction event. What is interesting is how rapidly life recovered from being extinguished in places like Canada when the ice retreated. The global warming alarmist seem totally unable to understand how adaptive life is. For them it seems any change is change for the worst which is a religious not a scientific frame of mind.
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  #1059  
Old 15 Jan 18, 20:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfhnd View Post
There are winners and loses depending on geography if the climate warms or cools. What we can say for certain that whatever we do it will not stay the same. My position is that there are more losers when it cools than when it warms. There is very little life under a mile of ice. For half of the world the last ice age was an extinction event. What is interesting is how rapidly life recovered from being extinguished in places like Canada when the ice retreated. The global warming alarmist seem totally unable to understand how adaptive life is. For them it seems any change is change for the worst which is a religious not a scientific frame of mind.
There are regional variations. Areas of arid climate shift around with either warming or cooling. However, cooling increases the overall area of arid climate.
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  #1060  
Old 16 Jan 18, 02:26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
Even if there was a 99% chance you were right about the climate, and you are not, if you have children, no decent parent would risk a 1% chance of their children's demise.

I have children.
Are your children so "slow" they can't outrun a 7" per century sea level rise and not drown?


Or will they be overwhelmed by the jungle planet we create with all that CO2 and heat, turning the planet into a giant Green House Jungle (oh, are greenhouses BAD?). I foresee a Planet of the Apes! The horrors that await us...


I need a Darwin emoji!
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  #1061  
Old 16 Jan 18, 03:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Doctor View Post
...
The result... Colder temperatures lead to more arid conditions.
Oh, Hell (too warm). Indisputable science fact...
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  #1062  
Old 16 Jan 18, 17:34
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Post edited to answer in a different order.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirate-Drakk View Post
Or will they be overwhelmed by the jungle planet we create with all that CO2 and heat, turning the planet into a giant Green House Jungle (oh, are greenhouses BAD?). I foresee a Planet of the Apes! The horrors that await us...
An answer lacking intelligence. We are talking about human survival, and you don't crap on your own doorstep.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirate-Drakk View Post
I need a Darwin emoji!
What you might want to consider is if you are wrong about AGW.

If you had children you wouldn't take the chance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirate-Drakk View Post
Are your children so "slow" they can't outrun a 7" per century sea level rise and not drown?
The two meanings of 'slow', in one insult. How very efficient of you. Against children as well? How cowardly of you.
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  #1063  
Old 16 Jan 18, 18:21
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TWO DEGREES THIS AM! VEHICLES COATED IN SHEATH OF ICE!! SEND GLOBAL WARMING IMMEDIATELY!!

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  #1064  
Old 16 Jan 18, 18:25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
We are talking about human survival, and you don't crap on your own doorstep.
Humans will survive just fine. Alarmist end-of-the-world Doomsday claims are ALWAYS wrong.

*Remember Y2K when all the computers stopped working and humanity came to a standstill?

*Remember when the planets "lined up" and Earth was destroyed by earthquakes?

*Remember when the Mayan Calendar (long count) ended along with the Earth and all of humanity?

None of these "disasters" happened as predicted because it was all BS. Just like the horrors of global warming. However, that didn't/won't stop the Doomsday predictions.

Some people like to live in terror and feel victimized. I see it all the time. Perhaps it makes them feel alive.

Dumping CO2 in the atmosphere is NOT POLLUTION any more than pouring clean water into the ocean is pollution.

You have a much higher probability of dying from "Fear of AGW" (agwophobia?) than AGW.
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  #1065  
Old 16 Jan 18, 18:34
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Real Name: Dave
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 47,222
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The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
Post edited to answer in a different order.
An answer lacking intelligence. We are talking about human survival, and you don't crap on your own doorstep.

What you might want to consider is if you are wrong about AGW.

If you had children you wouldn't take the chance.

The two meanings of 'slow', in one insult. How very efficient of you. Against children as well? How cowardly of you.
Hollywood midgets could have outrun all of the sea level rise of the last 150 years... By taking two steps away from the shoreline...



Sea level has been rising at a steady rate since the end of Neoglaciation (~1860)...



All of the sea level rise since 1700 is insignificant...



Junk science...



Actual rate of sea level rise extrapolated to 2100...



It's the almost invisble dashed yellow line at sea level.

Moronic babbling about catastrophic sea level rise is simply moronic...



Sea level rise would have to accelerate to a rate twice that of the Holocene Transgression, in order to rise by 1 meter by 2100.

Children who are too slow to outrun this rate of sea level rise should heed the following advice...


Last edited by The Doctor; 16 Jan 18 at 19:41..
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