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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Russia, Central Asia, and The Caucasus

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Russia, Central Asia, and The Caucasus Post-Soviet Russia and some neglected smaller neighbors.

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  #61  
Old 28 Feb 15, 10:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khepesh View Post
You quote events from hundreds of years ago in order to attack Russia now, well well. So, why not attack the French for their habit of cutting off heads of political opposition, and before them the English who executed one king and had a military coup against one of his sons. Then let's complain about colonists in North America rebelling against their lawful King, George III. Why not look further and quote events in Skandinavia, Bohemia etc etc. Using historical events to make petty forum debating points against one particular country as if no other country has similar events is futile.
Most other nations have advanced past the need to silence political opposition and those they disagree with by execution and murder.

It appears that the Russians have a ways to go in that area.

Sincerely,
M
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  #62  
Old 28 Feb 15, 10:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khepesh View Post
As Epigon has said, psychology is vomit inflicted by worthless parasites on society. Russia, covering one sixth of the land surface of the planet and spanning ten time zones, has no "complexes" about loosing an empire. The territory of modern Russia is not much smaller than when it was an empire in fact. For any complexes caused by loss of empire, then look at Britain, not Russia.
The murder of political opposition hasn't happened in Great Britain in quite some time.

The point is, I think, that Russia has not matured as a modern state-the political opposition being murdered or imprisoned and the illegal invasion of neighboring states that used to be part of Russia (Georgia and Ukraine) for the purpose of territorial aggrandizement.

One way or the other, Putin has blood on his hands.

Sincerely,
M
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  #63  
Old 28 Feb 15, 10:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massena View Post
Most other nations have advanced past the need to silence political opposition and those they disagree with by execution and murder.

It appears that the Russians have a ways to go in that area.

Sincerely,
M
So, back up your insulting and ridiculous claims with facts, and facts about these times, not before anybody here was born.
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  #64  
Old 28 Feb 15, 10:48
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Here's more on the subject:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/02...-putin-critic/
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  #65  
Old 28 Feb 15, 10:49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stryker 19K30 View Post
Statements like this are why he probably had nothing to do with this. This man was no real threat, certainly not one that needed to be killed overtly. His murder hurts Putin more than anyone.
That's not actually how that works, he was part of the opposition, thus opposed to Putin, and now he's not, which benefits Putin; but I do agree that he may not have been much of a threat to Putin. That's most likely why he was murdered the way he was--Putin is banking on this being forgotten in a couple of weeks.

If it weren't for Putin's track record these last few years, with all his "warmongering", I would be inclined to agree that Putin may not have had anything to do with this--it could have just as easily been a Putin fan that pulled the trigger. But, like I said: track record.

BTW, a man was murdered. I'm seeing most of the pro-Putin's here (that aren't on my ignore) completely disregarding the human part of this and wildly claiming Putin's non-involvement and how unimportant his death is. It is pretty fascinating, but not totally unpredictable.
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  #66  
Old 28 Feb 15, 10:52
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Originally Posted by Massena View Post
Expendable? That's a rather callous observation, don't you think?

Sincerely,
M
Good, then you will not have any problem in describing Ukranian politician Vladimir Parasyuk as "callous". He has spoken of the death of Mikhail Chechetov as being that of a "rat", and "natural selection at work", and that Chechetov was "responsible for the deaths of hundreds of people". Total garbage and very callous of Parasyuk, don't you think.....
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  #67  
Old 28 Feb 15, 10:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massena View Post
Most other nations have advanced past the need to silence political opposition and those they disagree with by execution and murder.

It appears that the Russians have a ways to go in that area.

Sincerely,
M
Agreed. It seems the old Soviet state still exists just a couple inches under the skin of "modern" Russia. Guess the more things supposedly change, the more they remain the same.

Meh. Russia does as Russia is. Some stereotypes just can't be shrugged off. This will continue until Putin is out of power or his country implodes--again.
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  #68  
Old 28 Feb 15, 10:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massena View Post
Based on the historical 'model' of Russian methods in dealing with political opposition, it may not be a theory but a logical conclusion.
Three Tsars were murdered by those in power in a period of about 100 years; Stalin eliminated poltical opposition randomly and with enthusiasm, and Putin is formerly a KGB officer.
Seems like either a pattern or a tradition.
If you pay attention to Russian history, you will also note a tendency for the opposition to eliminate individuals whom they have deemed expendable, such as Father Gapon, Ivan Ivanov, Enzo Azef, Pyotr Stolypin, Tsar Aleksandr II, Viacheslav von Plehve and Sergei Aleksandrovich Romanov. In short, just because a public figure is killed in Russia, does not mean the Kremlin is responsible.
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  #69  
Old 28 Feb 15, 10:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hida Akechi View Post
That's not actually how that works, he was part of the opposition, thus opposed to Putin, and now he's not, which benefits Putin; but I do agree that he may not have been much of a threat to Putin. That's most likely why he was murdered the way he was--Putin is banking on this being forgotten in a couple of weeks.

If it weren't for Putin's track record these last few years, with all his "warmongering", I would be inclined to agree that Putin may not have had anything to do with this--it could have just as easily been a Putin fan that pulled the trigger. But, like I said: track record.

BTW, a man was murdered. I'm seeing most of the pro-Putin's here (that aren't on my ignore) completely disregarding the human part of this and wildly claiming Putin's non-involvement and how unimportant his death is. It is pretty fascinating, but not totally unpredictable.
I'm not "pro-Putin" but I live in reality. I live in this country and speak the language. Putin does bad ****. He's not stupid enough to overtly have a man killed in front of the Kremlin that has been all over the western news of late for being in the opposition. That's not his M.O. Put your torch and pitchfork away long enough to look at the situation objectively.
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  #70  
Old 28 Feb 15, 10:57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massena View Post
The murder of political opposition hasn't happened in Great Britain in quite some time.

The point is, I think, that Russia has not matured as a modern state-the political opposition being murdered or imprisoned and the illegal invasion of neighboring states that used to be part of Russia (Georgia and Ukraine) for the purpose of territorial aggrandizement.

One way or the other, Putin has blood on his hands.

Sincerely,
M
Nonsense as you have taken events of Georgia and Ukraine totaly out of historical and modern context, and forgetting the deaths of 50 Russian peacekeepers and very many civilians in South Ossetia when Georgia attacked without provocation and, as usual, cheered on by EU/US, who are the real warmongers with blood on their hands.
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  #71  
Old 28 Feb 15, 11:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fareasterner View Post
Bloody Washington regime is fighting for survival and will stop at nothing.


Washington isn't in Russia, it's called "Moscow". Do you need to buy a map? This is just good, old-fashioned Soviet and Imperial Russian doctrine in play. Nothing has really changed in Russia and probably won't until Putin is gone, or, as I said in another post, the country implodes--again.
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  #72  
Old 28 Feb 15, 11:19
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Posting a brief thoughts of myself.

1. Strange place for killing. Near Kremlin. Looks like this murder was supposed to become as much loud as it can be.
2. Too much convenient time for murder, two days prior to meeting. Again, very suitable for those, who ordered it.

To resume thre exists two main versions:
1. This murder was ordered to make a "sacral victime" to blame Putin's regime for it. Classic genre of all "colored revolutions" prequels

2. Some angry nationalists. For those ones any liberal always is a desirable target.

All other versions of course can't be rejected, but they are much less possible IMHO.
Sorry for our western friends, but I absolutely excluding version of current regime responsible for this.
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  #73  
Old 28 Feb 15, 11:25
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Originally Posted by Khepesh View Post
So, back up your insulting and ridiculous claims with facts, and facts about these times, not before anybody here was born.
Isn't that what we're discussing here? The present-day murder of a political opposition leader.

And it isn't insulting when it's accurate and factual.

And using historical examples to illustrate a point or a pattern is completely valid.

It's called historical inquiry.

Sincerely,
M
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  #74  
Old 28 Feb 15, 11:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stryker 19K30 View Post
I'm not "pro-Putin" but I live in reality. I live in this country and speak the language. Putin does bad ****. He's not stupid enough to overtly have a man killed in front of the Kremlin that has been all over the western news of late for being in the opposition. That's not his M.O. Put your torch and pitchfork away long enough to look at the situation objectively.
Sure he is. It's called arrogance. Just as his 'involvement' in the Ukraine is arrogant. And it's also illegal by international law.

And reality from your viewpoint might just be a little skewed because you live in Russia.

Sincerely,
M
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  #75  
Old 28 Feb 15, 11:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amvas View Post
...but I absolutely excluding version of current regime responsible for this.
It must be extremely gratifying to be so sure of what happened. And if it comes to light that Putin was responsible for the murder, what then? Seems to me that all options are on the table at this point.

Sincerely,
M
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