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  #406  
Old 05 Oct 17, 10:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebfrench76 View Post

The American love for efficiency and for perfection.
You cannot beat that , Philip
It's part of our German heritage. It's not just that he is a horrifying, mass murdering monster - but he did it wrong, too!
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  #407  
Old 05 Oct 17, 10:39
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A interesting coincidence.


Manasquan, NJ –-(Ammoland.com)- Nearly every mass shooting incident in the last twenty years, and multiple other instances of suicide and isolated shootings all share one thing in common, and its not the weapons used.
The overwhelming evidence points to the signal largest common factor in all of these incidents is the fact that all of the perpetrators were either actively taking powerful psychotropic drugs or had been at some point in the immediate past before they committed their crimes.
Multiple credible scientific studies going back more than a decade, as well as internal documents from certain pharmaceutical companies that suppressed the information show that SSRI drugs ( Selective Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitors ) have well known, but unreported side effects, including but not limited to suicide and other violent behavior. One need only Google relevant key words or phrases to see for themselves.

Post edited to respect copyright - ACG Staff
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  #408  
Old 05 Oct 17, 10:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwaha View Post
A interesting coincidence.


Manasquan, NJ –-(Ammoland.com)- Nearly every mass shooting incident in the last twenty years, and multiple other instances of suicide and isolated shootings all share one thing in common, and its not the weapons used.
The overwhelming evidence points to the signal largest common factor in all of these incidents is the fact that all of the perpetrators were either actively taking powerful psychotropic drugs or had been at some point in the immediate past before they committed their crimes.
Multiple credible scientific studies going back more than a decade, as well as internal documents from certain pharmaceutical companies that suppressed the information show that SSRI drugs ( Selective Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitors ) have well known, but unreported side effects, including but not limited to suicide and other violent behavior. One need only Google relevant key words or phrases to see for themselves.

Post edited to respect copyright - ACG Staff
Given that these drugs are commonly used for certain mental health conditions all this may mean is simply that the perpetrators were suffering from mental health problems and it doesn't take a genius to work that out. It certainly does not prove a causal link between the drugs and the crime.
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  #409  
Old 05 Oct 17, 11:00
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Originally Posted by 101combatvet View Post
Aimed shots with an AK at night or low light conditions? Good luck with that. An AK's average group size at 100 meters is 6-7 inches. At 400 meters you're talking nearly two or more feet, other factors will set it off further, from the aimed target. At night from that distance, anyone he shot at probably didn't get hit, the person next to him may have. What is weird is that a lot of people just milled around like, Dude, are those firecrackers? Not too bright.
it probably took a ''long'' time before the majority of the crowd knew what was going on
first--the ones closest to the first victims had to take time to realize the victims were hit by rounds, and not just past out/sick/throwing up/fight/etc--
..it's loud and chaos at concerts..I doubt many could hear the rifle fire, especially at that range..even if they could, it would take much time for them to comprehend what it was...or differentiate/separate those sounds from the concert
it takes time for some one to really believe someone next to them has been shot
..then the word spreads....what's the first reaction? ''what?"" disbelief...
the people the farthest away from the initial victims have no idea what's going on..they are still enjoying the concert...it would take a ''long'' time before they would know what's really going on

with over 500 wounded, seems like he was spraying rounds more than aiming

Last edited by Moulin; 05 Oct 17 at 11:11..
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  #410  
Old 05 Oct 17, 11:32
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Something from across the street.

https://www.facebook.com/airtrafficc...3772992066188/
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  #411  
Old 05 Oct 17, 11:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
It's part of our German heritage. It's not just that he is a horrifying, mass murdering monster - but he did it wrong, too!


There is something about the internet that compels us to show that someone else is wrong or that we are "more right". Just like I am doing right now.


I tried to rep you for your post, but couldn't do it again yet.
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  #412  
Old 05 Oct 17, 15:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwaha View Post
A interesting coincidence.


Manasquan, NJ –-(Ammoland.com)- Nearly every mass shooting incident in the last twenty years, and multiple other instances of suicide and isolated shootings all share one thing in common, and its not the weapons used.
The overwhelming evidence points to the signal largest common factor in all of these incidents is the fact that all of the perpetrators were either actively taking powerful psychotropic drugs or had been at some point in the immediate past before they committed their crimes.
Multiple credible scientific studies going back more than a decade, as well as internal documents from certain pharmaceutical companies that suppressed the information show that SSRI drugs ( Selective Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitors ) have well known, but unreported side effects, including but not limited to suicide and other violent behavior. One need only Google relevant key words or phrases to see for themselves.

Post edited to respect copyright - ACG Staff
Yup, every damn time.

I guess that pointing that out gets the gun-grabbers very upset, but it is something that you would think the rest of us ought to do something about.

Spread the word, and find out how many Child-abusers and wife-beaters are also on this crap.
The Left might start caring then... but no, probably not.

The epidemic of Opiate Addiction also made news, for a couple of weeks. Aren't they linked?
Big Pharma has a LOT to answer for.
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  #413  
Old 05 Oct 17, 15:35
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It's a serious problem.

Mental Health Reform

A combination of HIPAA and the singleminded push for as little inpatient mental health treatment as possible consistently leaves people with serious mental health issues out in the world, barely functioning if at all.

As a cop I see it all the time. I'd say that anywhere from 15-25% of crime is committed by someone who has enough of a mental health issue to justify closer supervision based upon that alone.

As for the gun control question, where it relates to mental health. I would say that it would be a massive uphill battle against highly entrenched HIPAA to do it, but the solution is to make certain medical information available where it concerns someone's mental health and ability to function in society. The problem is that it's currently 'protected information' and rarely if ever reported. But if you've been actually committed (rather than just evaluated and released) for suicide attempts within the last say 15 years, the regulating authority for background checks might need to know that. If you're currently on medication for certain mental illnesses which have high risks of violent or uncontrollable behavior, the regulating authority might need to know that as well.

A large number of mass shooters were either medicated for a mental illness or showed other signs of instability weeks, months, or even years before they went off the deep end. The question to be answered:

Where does one's right to privacy with respect to their medical records clash with an overriding interest to protect the public at large?

In the case of certain communicable diseases (HIV, Tuberculosis, etc) the public interest is considered great enough that it must be reported to a regulating authority (Health Department) and the subject can be compelled to be treated without their consent.

I think that in the case of people with serious mental health defects, the public interest in them not gaining access to certain items supercedes their right to privacy. I also believe that the public interest should allow them to be compelled to be treated without their consent.....which it does via the involuntary commitment process.
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  #414  
Old 05 Oct 17, 17:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TacCovert4 View Post
It's a serious problem.

Mental Health Reform

A combination of HIPAA and the singleminded push for as little inpatient mental health treatment as possible consistently leaves people with serious mental health issues out in the world, barely functioning if at all.

As a cop I see it all the time. I'd say that anywhere from 15-25% of crime is committed by someone who has enough of a mental health issue to justify closer supervision based upon that alone.

As for the gun control question, where it relates to mental health. I would say that it would be a massive uphill battle against highly entrenched HIPAA to do it, but the solution is to make certain medical information available where it concerns someone's mental health and ability to function in society. The problem is that it's currently 'protected information' and rarely if ever reported. But if you've been actually committed (rather than just evaluated and released) for suicide attempts within the last say 15 years, the regulating authority for background checks might need to know that. If you're currently on medication for certain mental illnesses which have high risks of violent or uncontrollable behavior, the regulating authority might need to know that as well.

A large number of mass shooters were either medicated for a mental illness or showed other signs of instability weeks, months, or even years before they went off the deep end. The question to be answered:

Where does one's right to privacy with respect to their medical records clash with an overriding interest to protect the public at large?

In the case of certain communicable diseases (HIV, Tuberculosis, etc) the public interest is considered great enough that it must be reported to a regulating authority (Health Department) and the subject can be compelled to be treated without their consent.

I think that in the case of people with serious mental health defects, the public interest in them not gaining access to certain items supercedes their right to privacy. I also believe that the public interest should allow them to be compelled to be treated without their consent.....which it does via the involuntary commitment process.
The problem is that mental illness isn't, as we tend to think, an objective medical truth. There are still many who believe being gay or transgendered is a mental "illness". That social nature in deciding what is or isn't part of the norm and the desire to classify it as such creates an ethical minefield in amongst an already very touchy and sobering subject.

The argument that taking away a right like bearing arms is more justified in such cases because if a legitimately ill person absuses their right to free speech, they are far less likely to kill someone. But the history of mental health abuses in this nation make the idea of putting people into hospitals against their will very hard to swallow, considering that it wasn't that long ago when one could be locked up for being crazy with the only recourse to freedom being the medical professionals at that location - some horrifying stories about people faking illnesses to get admitted and then reverting back to a symptomless state, and how they still has to stick around for a long time and/or were only released when proscribed large amounts of medication, were documented.

On the other hand, the bigger obstacle as I see it is funding. For all the conservatives who mention how "mental health" is a bigger issue than guns, there is very prospect of them following through on that when it comes to election time because the solution they talk about would require a large sum of money and an expansion of public health services - and considering how ending Obamacare is still a stated priority, the idea of the GOP faithful backing another major health expenditure seems unlikely.

For the mental health crises to be addressed, it would require the GOP going along with something anathema to the current dialogue and would be incredibly expensive. The Dems would be more willing to spend money (no surprise) but they are still beholden to American voters who, in general, aren't looking to see their own dwindling income taken away in higher taxes.

At this point, I don't see the political will for America to address even just the mental health side of the equation.
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  #415  
Old 05 Oct 17, 17:38
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Being transgendered is a mental illness. The suicide rate of transgenders alone argues that it is. Their rate is nearly 50%. That's higher than concentration camp prisoners have. There's something going on that's causing them to want to off themselves and it isn't being oppressed in some manner by society.

Add their willingness to undergo massive amounts of cosmetic surgery and use all sorts of drugs to be what they aren't is an additional argument for mental illness.
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  #416  
Old 05 Oct 17, 17:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebfrench76 View Post
It makes you think, doesn't it ?
Here we have a deranged gunman murdering and wounding fellow citizens, yet we have a serious discussion on how the bastard might have managed it more effectively.
The American love for efficiency and for perfection.
You cannot beat that , Philip
[/QUOTE]

I realize this, and the mission to defeat unnecessary waste is to be commended. Efficiency is everything.
The trouble with this thinking- to my mind-is that confrontation with guns does not always mirror the Gun Fight at OKay Corral, with the good guy playing Wyatt Earp, but rather some insane bastard ambushing innocents,by surprise and from behind cover.
Where's the heroic independence, the love of independence,the expression of freedom in that ?
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  #417  
Old 05 Oct 17, 17:54
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Any conservatives here object to a nationwide data base of gun owners? Please raise your hands???

If NOT would you be OK with a nationwide data base of mental illness? I guess first we need to ask just what illnesses go in it? Who decides? Who has access? Then of course who thinks it would not get hacked within 5 years and the info sold on the dark net.
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  #418  
Old 05 Oct 17, 18:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Combat Engineer View Post
Any conservatives here object to a nationwide data base of gun owners? Please raise your hands???

If NOT would you be OK with a nationwide data base of mental illness? I guess first we need to ask just what illnesses go in it? Who decides? Who has access? Then of course who thinks it would not get hacked within 5 years and the info sold on the dark net.
But owning a gun is a constitutional right and having a mental illness isn't.
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  #419  
Old 05 Oct 17, 18:31
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My point was (and Exo got it.) If there's 100% correlation of these people taking a certain type of drug with known side effects that will push someone over the edge we should look at that as a leading cause.
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  #420  
Old 05 Oct 17, 18:57
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Originally Posted by Combat Engineer View Post
Any conservatives here object to a nationwide data base of gun owners? Please raise your hands???
Why would you want to have a data base for a person's rights?
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