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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Africa

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Africa Issues of modern Africa.

View Poll Results: Should abstinence be taught an alternative to condom use in Africa?
Yes, abstinence is the only 100% effective way of preventing the spread of Sexually Transmitted HIV. 15 57.69%
No, people have little or no self-restraint and can't be trusted to do what's in their own self-interest. 8 30.77%
I have no opinion and I don't care what is done to stop the spread of HIV in Africa. 3 11.54%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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  #46  
Old 02 Aug 08, 09:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPangracs View Post
Start what?

What other way is there to guarantee, 100%, that a person does NOT get SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED HIV?

Why do YOU believe people, even after being formally educated on the use of condoms and/or the practice of abstinence STILL engage in the very behavior that exposes them to the HIV virus?
Yet again, that's not what your poll asked.

But, anyway, why do YOU believe that abstinence is a viable strategy when there is compelling evidence that it doesn't work 100% for Americans, who, presumably, enjoy a better level of formal education than the average person in Africa?

What evidence can you provide that widespread condom use alone is not a viable strategy and that the problem is simply:
1. Lack of education on condom use
2. Lack of availability of free condoms

Quote:
My poll was well-worded and to the point. Either you can answer the above questions, and therefore can answer the poll, or you can't.

It's not rocket science....for most.
Your poll was not well worded. It contained keywords and phrases that quite clearly indicated your bias on the subject, which you have confirmed with your following posts. Now, there's nothing wrong with a biased poll, I guess. American news agencies have turned that into an art form. But it seems to me, in a forum like this, if you want to preach you could just save everyone a bit of time and get right to the point.
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  #47  
Old 02 Aug 08, 17:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DingBat View Post
Yet again, that's not what your poll asked.

But, anyway, why do YOU believe that abstinence is a viable strategy when there is compelling evidence that it doesn't work 100% for Americans, who, presumably, enjoy a better level of formal education than the average person in Africa?

What evidence can you provide that widespread condom use alone is not a viable strategy and that the problem is simply:
1. Lack of education on condom use
2. Lack of availability of free condoms



Your poll was not well worded. It contained keywords and phrases that quite clearly indicated your bias on the subject, which you have confirmed with your following posts. Now, there's nothing wrong with a biased poll, I guess. American news agencies have turned that into an art form. But it seems to me, in a forum like this, if you want to preach you could just save everyone a bit of time and get right to the point.
So, abstinence is NOT the ONLY way to prevent HIV 100% of the time? Pray tell, what is the other way so we can stop this nonsense?!

My poll was worded specifically NOT to be biased one way or the other.

You're just the type of person who argues to argue even when you are arguing from a position of ignorance. Hope you enjoy arguing with yourself.
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  #48  
Old 02 Aug 08, 17:10
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Heh, you honestly can't see the biased wording?
Honestly, the wording reminds me of the age old "still beating your wife?" 'question'.


How do you actually teach abstinence?
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  #49  
Old 02 Aug 08, 18:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPangracs View Post
So, abstinence is NOT the ONLY way to prevent HIV 100% of the time? Pray tell, what is the other way so we can stop this nonsense?!
How's it working out in stopping unwanted teenage pregnancies in the US?

If you can't convince otherwise smart American boys and girls not to have unprotected sex, why should we believe you've come up with some wonderful solution to HIV?

I mean, if you're going to tout something as a "100%" surefire cure, I'd think you'd be able to back that up with some proof. You must be basing all that confidence on SOMETHING, right? Please share it with us.
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  #50  
Old 02 Aug 08, 18:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karri View Post
Heh, you honestly can't see the biased wording?
Honestly, the wording reminds me of the age old "still beating your wife?" 'question'.
That's appears to be precisely what was intended.
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  #51  
Old 02 Aug 08, 19:52
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Abstinence is not a 100% "surefire" cure against HIV or any kind of STD.

However, it is a 100% preventative measure against HIV or STD.

The condoms, on the other hand, are not 100% against either HIV or STD, though they can reduce the chances of receiving either disease. However, condoms don't and will never eliminate both HIV and STD completely.

In effect, you are still rolling dices with condoms, and in the case of abstinence, you don't roll dices at all. Why? Because there is no way of transferring STD or HIV sexually if you are not having sex with anybody. Got it?

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  #52  
Old 02 Aug 08, 21:24
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An etimated 420,000 children were infected with HIV in 2007 according to UNICEF.

Abstinence will not help them

http://www.unicef.org/aids/
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  #53  
Old 02 Aug 08, 21:51
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How do you teach it?

Easy... just the fact!

For prevention of STD's (transmission by sexual means) & unwanted pregnancy, Abstinence works 100% of the times that it is practiced by any individual.

As far as I can tell, children - unless having sex - are not part of the OP.

Neither is any portion of a disease/virus transmitted by non-sexual means.

Stick to the topic at hand...

If the Poll & topic does not suit you... start your own in such fashion as you please, within the bounds of forum rules...

Or - frankly - just walk on by, instead of non-topically arguing simply for arguments sake.


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  #54  
Old 02 Aug 08, 21:57
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Since AIDS and HIV currently exist on all continents, it is imperative that everyone practice abstinence....at least until the existing generations of the human population expire. It is the only way the human race will be safe.
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  #55  
Old 02 Aug 08, 21:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatBC View Post
An etimated 420,000 children were infected with HIV in 2007 according to UNICEF.

Abstinence will not help them

http://www.unicef.org/aids/
I don't bother to click on that link you provided.

However, let me say this: if you happen to have STD or HIV already, then no, abstinence isn't going to help you, because it does not cure either disease. So, therefore, for those 420,000 children, life sucks, abstinence isn't going to help them to be cured of HIV.

Even so, that was not my main point.

My main point is that if you don't have HIV or STD, and you decide to have sex with anybody who is carrying HIV or STD, using condoms aren't going to eliminate the risks of receiving HIV or STD. Condoms merely reduce the chances of transmitting HIV or STD to you, that's it.

Abstinence, on the other hand, does eliminate the chances of receiving STD and HIV, because it means you are not having sex with that person at all. Thus, there is no way for HIV or STD to be transmitted sexually over to you.

Are we clear on this, so far? Good.

The ultimate point is that abstinence is best viewed as the preventative measure that's 100% effective against any kind of STD or HIV. However, it is not a cure, so it shouldn't be treated like such.

Dan
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  #56  
Old 02 Aug 08, 22:04
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Nobody has suggested that, skoblin, & even the sarcastic expression - such as you've posted - is absurd.

I am for any means that might reduce it, but Abstinence, testing & then monogamy is far safer & more certain to offer an individual more protection than a condom alone. It ain't about Christianity, it's about life & death. I know it... you know it... and so does everybody here that is arguing along semantically deflective lines to the contrary.


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Old 02 Aug 08, 22:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral View Post
Nobody has suggested that, skoblin, & even the sarcastic expression - such as you've posted - is absurd.

I am for any means that might reduce it, but Abstinence, testing & then monogamy is far safer & more certain to offer an individual more protection than a condom alone. It ain't about Christianity, it's about life & death. I know it... you know it... and so does everybody here that is arguing along semantically deflective lines to the contrary.


Admiral...in all due respect...most of what I have read in this thread has involved statements about abstinence....not monogamy and testing - or even public education for that matter. I am all in favour of these things, and yes my post was meant sarcastically. It is clear that a number of posters in this thread are only stressing the abstinence factor because they are thinking about Africa and Africans. I doubt these same posters plan to practice abstinence in their own lives, yet AIDS exists in North America as well. Abstinence in Africa will not work unless joined with public education as to why they should abstain. And it still will not work because it runs counter to natural human desires. Thus, monogamy is what should be stressed and the use of condoms to help minimize the danger, coupled with education. But it hardly addresses the situation in the numerous work camps in African countries, such as the mining camps in South Africa where you have thousands of single men. Of course they will have sex with prostitutes....even if you say NO. Better working conditions and pay so they can set up homes, establish families and have some promise of a normalised existence will do more.
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Old 02 Aug 08, 22:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skoblin View Post
Admiral...in all due respect...most of what I have read in this thread has involved statements about abstinence....not monogamy and testing - or even public education for that matter. I am all in favour of these things, and yes my post was meant sarcastically. It is clear that a number of posters in this thread are only stressing the abstinence factor because they are thinking about Africa and Africans. I doubt these same posters plan to practice abstinence in their own lives, yet AIDS exists in North America as well. Abstinence in Africa will not work unless joined with public education as to why they should abstain. And it still will not work because it runs counter to natural human desires. Thus, monogamy is what should be stressed and the use of condoms to help minimize the danger, coupled with education. But it hardly addresses the situation in the numerous work camps in African countries, such as the mining camps in South Africa where you have thousands of single men. Of course they will have sex with prostitutes....even if you say NO. Better working conditions and pay so they can set up homes, establish families and have some promise of a normalised existence will do more.
Pardon me, but let me say this: I know a lot of people who are virgins and try to keep their bodies pure until marriage. There's no shame in practicing abstinence. In fact, I am one of them.

Of course, on other hand, a lot of people are going to follow their sexual desires and have sex with each other. Does it mean we have to give up on abstinence just because everybody is doing it? Of course not.

The whole point of this thread is to make it clear to everybody that if you want to be 100% effective against STD or HIV, then abstinence is the best and most effective solution. Anything else short of abstinence will only reduce, not eliminating altogether, the risks of getting STD or HIV. That's it.

Dan
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Old 02 Aug 08, 22:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral View Post
I am for any means that might reduce it, but Abstinence, testing & then monogamy is far safer & more certain to offer an individual more protection than a condom alone. It ain't about Christianity, it's about life & death. I know it... you know it... and so does everybody here that is arguing along semantically deflective lines to the contrary.
Studies show that teaching abstinence to American christians does jack squat. I would imagine that it would also have the same impact on African kids.

Hand out free condoms in your abstinence classes.
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Old 02 Aug 08, 22:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheetah772 View Post
Pardon me, but let me say this: I know a lot of people who are virgins and try to keep their bodies pure until marriage. There's no shame in practicing abstinence. In fact, I am one of them.

Of course, on other hand, a lot of people are going to follow their sexual desires and have sex with each other. Does it mean we have to give up on abstinence just because everybody is doing it? Of course not.

The whole point of this thread is to make it clear to everybody that if you want to be 100% effective against STD or HIV, then abstinence is the best and most effective solution. Anything else short of abstinence will only reduce, not eliminating altogether, the risks of getting STD or HIV. That's it.

Dan
Yes Dan, but....eventually you intend to have sex - at least within the confines of a monogamous marriage. You are not talking about abstaining forever. Hence, my point. What we are really talking about is stressing the importance of monogamy, which also requires public education. And I doubt you would reject the need for testing, in order to prevent the spread of AIDS, which means more public health funding. And since condom use at least helps minimize the spread of STDs, they should be publicly available. And since poor and cramped living conditions involving thousands of young single males attract prostitutes - often infected- living and working conditions should also be addressed. No one method will prevent or halt the AIDS epidemic in Africa...it will take a concerted effort.
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