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  #16  
Old 05 Oct 17, 18:08
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Moved to Modern Warfare as per OP's request
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  #17  
Old 05 Oct 17, 21:37
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Thank you Carpe Diem,

The documentary in the OP submits that a # of British free corps(the Brits whom fought for Hitler) suggested they were coerced or sort of forced to fight for Germany. Other Brits through court records show that they gladly served the Third reich. As for the Brits of WW2 whom suggest they were coerced by the Germans to fight for Germany this reminds directly of the reports of John Cantlie, the British reporter whom is said to have been coerced by ISIL to report unfavorably on the allied coalition and in favor of ISIL.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C...g_imprisonment

Wrt John Cantlie whom according to his sister is a bigot a Muslim bigot, Cantlies sister says that Cantlie actually believes some of ISIL ideology. And there are tens of or hundreds of other white brits serving ISIL. Compare that to the documentary shown in the OP we see that of the 59+ British Fascists, their were hardcore fascists, somewhat remorseful fascists and those whom suggest they were coerced by the Reich to serve the Reich.

The point I take away is that any ideology however violent can be attractive to any human. The Reich reached out to Brits so does ISIL. But it was the allies of WW2, the Soviets the Brits and Americans and others whom stood up to the Reich by fighting the Reich and broadcasting messages that all peoples and cultures are worthy and that bigotry is not the answer. Today learning from the allies of WW2, the anti ISIL coalition needs to stand against all forms of bigotry and it appears to be occurring that is to say ISIL is losing ground. It took time to defeat the Reich and it will take time to defeat ISIL.
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Last edited by Stonewall_Jack; 05 Oct 17 at 21:42..
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  #18  
Old 06 Oct 17, 20:32
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Originally Posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
..British men whom fought for the German cause in WW2...few in numbers yes but certainly they existed.
Yes, there were also French, Italian, Belgian and Dutch SS units plus about a dozen more units from other Euro nations-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Waffen-SS_units

We don't know their motives for joining the SS, for example no doubt some of them wanted to help defeat Russia, especially as the Russian steamroller got closer and closer to their homelands, their wives and children..

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  #19  
Old 06 Oct 17, 23:59
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It occurred the other way as well, around 10,000 German Jewish and political refugees served in the British armed forces during WW2

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...rman-army.html
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  #20  
Old 07 Oct 17, 14:39
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Originally Posted by redcoat View Post
It occurred the other way as well, around 10,000 German Jewish and political refugees served in the British armed forces during WW2

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...rman-army.html
In the first 0f these cases given that the Nazi regime had removed their German citizenship it seems fair enough
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Old 07 Oct 17, 14:44
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Originally Posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
I disagree with your approach. I add fwiw that neither the documentary nor the OP are sensationalizing anything rather they are showing the very British men whom fought for the German cause in WW2...few in numbers yes but certainly they existed.
Fought is rubbish, served yes, betrayed their country yes but can tou present any credible evidence that any saw action?
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  #22  
Old 07 Oct 17, 20:04
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Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
Yes, there were also French, Italian, Belgian and Dutch SS units plus about a dozen more units from other Euro nations-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Waffen-SS_units

We don't know their motives for joining the SS, for example no doubt some of them wanted to help defeat Russia, especially as the Russian steamroller got closer and closer to their homelands, their wives and children..

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Yes in addition there were tens of thousands of pro fascists in the USA and UK during the 1930s...See Oswald Mosley and his followers as well as the German American Bund.

As for the British fascists who fought for Germany during WW2 in the 1940s... their motives are provided in the documentary shown in the OP of this thread. Some of these Brits were totally commited to the German Fascist cause, others wanted to fight Communism and did not mind doing so for Germany, while others claimend they were coerced as captured British POWS to fight for the Third Reich. One Brit shown in the documentary, James Clarke, said it was love that brought him and his mother to support the German cause in WW2.
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  #23  
Old 07 Oct 17, 21:43
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Just about every nation had a ultra-right wing,para-military organisation that tried to emulate the Italian Facists, and were aggressively anti-Communist.
In Australia there was "The New Guard",formed largely from ex-servicemen. In the event, their main claim to fame was gate-crashing the formal opening of the Sydney Harbour Bridge. One of their number, a Captain De Groot ,charged forward of the official party on a horse, and slashed at the ribbon with a sword,in the name of the" decent and loyal citizens of New Sourh Wales".
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  #24  
Old 07 Oct 17, 23:53
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Yes, but how many genuine Brits, Aussies, Yanks etc; were putting their own physical safety as front line troops in for instance one of the German Eastern front regiments? very few, I lay a shade of odds!! lcm1
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  #25  
Old 08 Oct 17, 00:49
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Originally Posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
Some of these Brits were totally commited to the German Fascist cause..
"The target marker flares looked pretty floating slowly down in the night sky" my late mother told me about the time the Luftwaffe bombed her home city of Leicester (England) in 1940 when she was 18.
She and her family escaped unscathed but others didn't. Hitler was also bombing the krap out of other Brit cities and towns, so any Brit who joined the SS must have been nutty..
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Old 08 Oct 17, 07:56
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Originally Posted by lcm1 View Post
Yes, but how many genuine Brits, Aussies, Yanks etc; were putting their own physical safety as front line troops in for instance one of the German Eastern front regiments? very few, I lay a shade of odds!! lcm1
Probably none.The Germans were enthusiastic about using such turncoats for propaganda but less so to actually use them at the sharp end regarding them as unreliable (which was probably correct) They were prepared to use volunteers from neutral countries (see Swedes in the SS and also the Spanish volunteers) and occasionally volunteers from occupied countries (a few Norwegian followers of Quisling for example).
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Old 08 Oct 17, 11:57
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Probably none.The Germans were enthusiastic about using such turncoats for propaganda but less so to actually use them at the sharp end regarding them as unreliable (which was probably correct) They were prepared to use volunteers from neutral countries (see Swedes in the SS and also the Spanish volunteers) and occasionally volunteers from occupied countries (a few Norwegian followers of Quisling for example).
The French Charlemagne division was very committed helping defend the Fehrer bunker in Berlin.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/33rd...ne_(1st_French)
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  #28  
Old 08 Oct 17, 12:15
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The French Charlemagne division was very committed helping defend the Fehrer bunker in Berlin.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/33rd...ne_(1st_French)
The reality is less spectacular

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SS Charlemagne

With Himmler's decision to form a French SS division in August, 1944, a large confluence of Waffen-SS, the French Volunteer Legion, armed French auxiliaries of the German army and navy, Vichy Militia and trapped refugees assembled for form the 33rd SS "Charlemagne" Infantry Division. The battalions of SS "Frankreich" formed the basis for the 57th Infantry Regiment, while the less enthusiastic legionnaires formed the cadre for the 58th Infantry Regiment. Companies of artillery, assault guns, antitank, engineers and signal troops also formed, the basis of larger units that never could be prepared. With very little training and even less cohesion, the division was sent into Pommerania to reinforce Army Group Vistula. There it fell victim to the Red Army's offensive in February and March, suffering almost total destruction during its movement, never having concentrated as a division. Survivors formed in various parts of the dying III Reich, including a few hundred fighting with the SS Nordland battle group in Berlin.
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  #29  
Old 10 Oct 17, 02:06
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Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
"The target marker flares looked pretty floating slowly down in the night sky" my late mother told me about the time the Luftwaffe bombed her home city of Leicester (England) in 1940 when she was 18.
She and her family escaped unscathed but others didn't. Hitler was also bombing the krap out of other Brit cities and towns, so any Brit who joined the SS must have been nutty..
Hi POS, not nutty mate,... Traitors and deserved to be hung! lcm1
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Old 10 Oct 17, 07:12
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And yet down the years Britain has been willing to use men who came over from the enemy. The British garrison of Cadiz during the Peninsular war contained a unit listed in contemporary records as "2nd Battalion Foreign Deserters" (which leads one to wonder where the 1st battalion was - deserted again perhaps). Wellington was not against using such men although he did warn that care had to be taken as to where they were deployed as their reliability was inevitably suspect.
When during WW2 ex Soviet POW units serving with the German army in Italy expressed a wish to come over to the Allies Harold Macmillan was all in favour of accepting them despite them being willing to change sides for the 2nd time.
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