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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > The Middle East

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The Middle East Asia Minor, the Arab Mahgreb, and the Persian Gulf to include tensions between Israel and its Arab neighbors, Terrorist organizations and Iran.

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  #391  
Old 23 Mar 11, 03:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCoyote View Post
No, you provided a single example of one reporter who botched an interview. Fox has been known to do that from time to time. Although you may not have seen it, other news outlets did report on the Russian version of events that immediately preceded the 'war'. We had several debates on that here if I'm not mistaken.
They did report, but a week or more after the war had ended. I remember these discussions here quite clearly. Timing is everything, and there's normally little use in getting different information after the main decisions were taken. The information from the Russian side of the conflict did come through, but it was normally served in a quite hostile context and there were always attempts to squeeze it into the official Georgian government POV which turned out total BS. What's really important, the majority of Western media outlets still repeat the official Georgian position declared on the 1st day of war as if no evidence to the contrary has ever been revealed. Moreover, a US propaganda movie has just been produced, showing a 1000% Georgian POV with Russians eating babies and the like.

Sorry, I'm not convinced. It's not the truth that is shown by them, but the version they're comfortable with.

Quote:
You alleged that NO Western News agency is reporting the deliberate destruction of Libyan schools and hospitals. Essentially you are alleging that the news media, ALL OF THEM, are complicit in a conspiracy with several western governments and no one knows about it except Russian bloggers.
There have at least been precedents of Western media doing such things - like the one I've described and the Katyn affair in WW2, for example.

Quote:
Just so you are aware, a CNN reporter called a Fox News reporter a hypocrite, on the air, over the 'human shields' story this morning. Now they all agree that the Libyans are providing them with transportation to the bomb sites. They agree about the time of the attacks and recorded the AAA fire.

The Libyan government is also not dependent on CNN, AFP, or BBC to get its version out. There are plenty of opposition news outlets in Europe, and plenty of politicians eager to replace Cameron(sp?), Sarkozy, and Obama. Still no pictures of blown up schools and hospitals.
We might wait for this to be revealed after some time. Just like in the 888 war. Meanwhile,

http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/loc...ub=CalgaryHome

Quote:
"Two CF-18s were tasked for a ground attack mission against a Libyan airfield," Lawson told a news conference in Ottawa.

"I can confirm for you that the air crew returned not having dropped their weaponry. Upon arrival on the scene of the target area the air crew became aware of a risk they deemed too high for collateral damage."

Lawson said the risk was not related to any threat to the CF-18s, but rather potential damage to civilians or important infrastructure such as hospitals, on the ground.
Who knows, it's quite possible there were pilots who loved Democracy and Mom's Apple Pie much more and just pulled the trigger.
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  #392  
Old 23 Mar 11, 03:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Franz View Post
It's probably not a good idea to rest your case until you've made one
You don't even know what "making a case" is

Quote:
For every "You-Tube" piece you provide similar to this one - there are at least two to contradict the one you show.
Please, go on and show.

Quote:
This is not the place to re-hash the Russian,South Ossetia and Abkhazia conflict with Georgia. Russian troops as Peacekeepers is laughable in that Russia and South Ossetia were closely aligned. Peacekeepers should have been uninvolved parties with no direct relationship to any of the parties involved.
They were official UN-approved peacekeepers. Too bad you think they are fair targets for aggression, but I guess it's all your old family scores to settle


Quote:
Resting ones case - based on a You Tube clip is never wise
You haven't seen the clip, haven't you? FOX expected the girl to say "Evil Russkies ate our babies" and instead she said "Thank you Russian soldiers".

Here is the groundbreaking truth. Nobody else said it at the time! Their ratings had to go up immediately, as FOX would be the only channel to provide a different point of view based on eyewitness accounts!

But, instead of rejoicing to this incredible luck, they started gagging her! Did they deliberately want to lose their ratings? The answer is simple - her story didn't match their and the whole US media's propaganda version of the war and it had to be edited out. It's that simple.

And there were no politicians to capitalise on the fact the Russians could be anything beside evil monsters. Therefore, no chance of alternative coverage.
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  #393  
Old 23 Mar 11, 04:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Mann III View Post
What about the ones who just showed up in the glorious pursuit of rent money?
They can cover the economy, maybe to a little investigative reporting on corruption in the Government and other crimes, eh?
If that matters to anyone any more.
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  #394  
Old 23 Mar 11, 12:37
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7:13am

The US will hand over operations to NATO in the next few days, the Associated Press says. The US has been leading the military efforts so far, but has been keen to hand over the role to avoid further accusations of carrying out imperialist adventures in an oil-rich state.

The diplomatic and military deal depends on agreement from all 28 NATO members - including Turkey, which has been insisting on a narrow military mandate - and guarantees that no foreign occupation of the country will follow. US President Obama said:

When this transition takes place it is not going to be our planes that are maintaining the no-fly zone. It is not going to be our ships that are necessarily enforcing the arms embargo. That's precisely what the other nations are going to do.


7:31am

Chinese state media has attacked the bombing of sites in Libya as a quest for "world dominance". An editorial in the Global Times said:

[The air assault] is primarily a political decision taken by a few Western powers, and the very first message it delivers is that these Western powers are still the judge and executioner on a global level.

The West has dominated the world for centuries, and clinging to world dominance still remains its major strategy.


7:39am

Anti-Gaddafi fighters have found themselves outgunned on the road from Benghazi to Ajdabiya. With no communication facilities and little structure to their forces, they are left to run sporadic raids against Gaddafi's troops, before coming under fire and returning.

8:15am

One of the US airmen who ejected from his fighter jet that crashed in eastern Libya apparently found himself "surrounded by curious locals" who served him juice and thanked his country for bombing Gaddafi's forces, says US military authorities - themselves keen to stave off insinuations about their involvement in the conflict.

8:30am

The price tag for US involvement could easily run into hundreds of millions of dollars, says the AP news agency.

It says that the cruise missiles - of which at least 162 have already been launched - have a price tag of between US$1million and US$1.5million each.

The B2 bombers, which have been flying 25-hour round trips to Libya from Missouri, reportedly cost US$10,000 an hour, says the agency.


9:50am

Scholars at Al Azhar university in Cairo have condemned the heretofore US-led bombing and aerial operation in Libya, but have said the institution - seen as Egypt's highest Islamic authority - supports "the legitimate demands of the Libyan people's revolution".

Founded in 970, Azhar warned the United States and Britain against "dividing Libya and destroying its natural and human wealth, as happened in Iraq," said the Al Ahram newspaper, which is majority-owned by the government.

But it also condemned Arab governments who oppressed citizens for decades, saying their leaders should not stay in office if that would lead to more bloodshed.

They should leave their posts. That is the least they can do to respond to their people, who have endured them and been patient for so long.


9:56am

Sweden is the latest country to freeze assets belonging to Muammar Gaddafi's administration.

The Scandanavian country has seized 10 billion kronor (US$1.6 billion), it says, but officials say "it's not impossible'' there could be more hidden.

10:20am

Al Jazeera's, Andrew Simmons, reporting from the USS Kearsarge - just off the Libyan coast, tells us:

We're hearing the US president is concerned that Gaddafi could hunker down and wait this out. He's talked about saving civilian lives - and that's what we're hearing on board this ship. The six Harrier jets onboard this ship have been bombing targets overnight.

Commanders here are saying that [UN Security Council] resolution 1973 allows for attacks on pro-Gaddafi forces, in order to save lives. There is concern about "mission creep", there is the assurance that the US will hand over command in the coming days, despite indecision in Europe about who will take over - but here, they are still in full-blown mode in terms of operations and attacks.


10:45am

Gerald Howarth, the British minister for international security strategy, denied that pilots had no concern about the killing of civilians. He told reporters:

Any idea that there is some sort of cavalier approach is absolute rubbish ... I repeat the purpose of this is to protect the civilian population.

Why therefore would we be engaging in anything which threatens the civilian
population?

He noted that two British Tornado jets had pulled back from attacking Libyan air defence systems because "they saw civilians near the target."

11:00am

As objections mount against the bombing of Libyan sites, allegations of "mission creep" in the operation are rising.

Former US fighter jet pilot Jay Stout tells Al Jazeera that the military involvement in Libya has reached beyond what is usually expected in enforcing a no-fly zone.

11:19am

NATO warships - commanded from Naples, Italy, will begin patrolling Libya's coast to enforce the UN arms embargo later today.

The two flotilla will initially comprise two frigates, six minesweepers and a supply ship, a NATO official - unidentified under standing rules - told the Associated Press news agency.

11:50am

More on those operation names. US African Command says "Operation: Odyssey Dawn" has no meaning whatsoever.

Wired magazine reports that the people in charge of naming operations were given a limited option of words to choose from:

“These words begin between the letters JF-JZ, NS-NZ and OA-OF, and those three groups give about 60 some odd words,” explains Africom spokesman Eric Elliott. “So, the folks who were responsible for naming this went through and they had done recent activities with NS and they went to O.”

Using the O series of letters, Africom officials picked out “Odyssey” for the first word. The second word is picked “as random as possible because that’s the goal of these operational names,” says Elliot. Africom pulled out “Dawn” for its second word and the resulting combination, “Odyssey Dawn,” is devoid of any intended meaning, Elliott insists.

Read the whole report here.

Meanwhile, the Army Rumour Service - an unofficial UK military online forum, among others, have been debating the term Operation Ellamy, the British operational name. And the reasoning behind the naming of Canadian Operation MOBILE is also unclear.

The French operation is named Operation Harmattan. The Harmattan, according to Wikipedia, "is a dry and dusty West African trade wind. It blows south from the Sahara into the Gulf of Guinea".

So now you know.

12:18pm

Al Jazeera's James Bays, reporting from Benghazi, says two developments have happened there. Firstly, there was a large death toll in Misurata overnight, with 14 killed and 23 injured - according to anti-Gaddafi fighters. He says they told him that:

Gaddafi's forces now taken over hospital in the town, and have positioned snipers on the roof and tanks outside. The rebels are calling for a hospital ship to be sent in, as they still control the port, and say that would save many lives, as they now have nowhere to take their injured.

More civilian deaths have been reported in Ajdabiya and elsewhere, and they calling on international powers to interpret the UN resolution more widely to support them.

Secondly, the Libyan transitional council has taken the step of calling themselves an "interim government". They had been wary of using the words before, as it would seem to signify a split in the country. "But they remain committed to one Libya," James says. "They want the people of Libya to remain united, just without Gaddafi."

Heading up the new government is Mahmoud Jibril, who had been working as a representative to foreign powers, including meeting France's Nicolas Sarkozy - which led to France diplomatically recognising the transitional council as the sole representative of the Libyan people.

12:27pm

General David Petraeus, the US general in charge of US and NATO forces in Afghanistan, says he is not concerned that military action in Libya would divert resources from the war in Afghanistan. He told the Royal United Services Institute defence thinktank in London:

There was an examination of whether certain intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance assets of an actually quite limited nature might be needed to help out with the operation in Libya, but in the end there have been no assets taken from the effort in Afghanistan and I don't foresee that happening at this point in time.
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  #395  
Old 23 Mar 11, 12:42
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12:38pm

Protesters in London demonstrate against the UN-mandated military action in Libya.




12:41pm

International coalition warplanes just conducted an air strike against Gaddafi forces stationed at the eastern entrance of Ajdabiya, reports Al Jazeera Arabic.

12:44pm

Further coalition airstrikes target Gaddafi forces in Misurata, a resident tells Reuters.

Artillery and tanks stopped shooting in the city moments later, the agency says.

12:50pm

"The allied planes bombed twice so far. At 12:45 this morning and then again less than two hours ago," a resident named Saadoun told Reuters by telephone from Misurata.

They (pro-Gaddafi forces) haven't fired a single artillery round since the air strike.


1:05pm

A spokesman for the newly formed "interim government", declared by the transitional national council, tells Al Jazeera's James Bays:

The provisional national council is a legislative body, but we need an executive body to take control and provide an administration.

Our position has been very clear, that Libya is one unit - our capital is Tripoli and will forever be Tripoli ... We are striving to liberate the western parts of the country, and Tripoli, and keep the country united. We would like to emphasise this over and over again.


1:17pm

Al Jazeera's Andrew Simmons, aboard the USS Kearsarge, says the aim of the Harrier jets aboard the ship is to help push Gaddafi's troops back from their lines - not enforce a no-fly zone. He tells us:

The rebels aren't making much headway, so we're seeing an escalation here.


1:35pm

In football news, the African Cup of Nations qualifiers have been moved away from Libya and Cote d'Ivoire over safety concerns, says the Associated Press agency.

1:40pm

US defence secretary Robert Gates has arrived in Cairo for talks discussing Libya's future.

1:46pm

Gaddafi's troops have resumed their shelling of the rebel-held town of Zintan, about 90km south-west of the capital, a resident named Abdulrahman told Reuters by phone.

Gaddafi's brigades started bombardment from the northern area half an hour ago. The bombardment is taking place now. The town is completely surrounded. The situation is very bad.

They are getting reinforcements. Troops backed with tanks and vehicles are coming. We appeal to the allied forces to come and protect civilians.
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  #396  
Old 23 Mar 11, 12:47
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2:07pm

In Misurata, "snipers" belonging to forces loyal to Gaddafi are shooting at people, killing at least three, a resident of the town tells Reuters.


2:09pm

David Cameron, British prime minister, says actions of the Libyan regime in Misurata "is of great concern".


2:11pm

Cameron goes on to say that Kuwait and Jordan will make a "logistic contribution" to the Libyan military operation.

2:15pm

More on that shooting at the clinic in rebel-held Misurata. A resident named Saadoun told the agency:

It started half an hour ago. The snipers are ... shooting at the hospital and its two entrances are under heavy attack. No one can get in or out ... We have lost all communication with people inside. The last thing
we knew is that three are killed and three are critically wounded.


2:21pm

The Benghazi-based National Transitional Council has taken the step of declaring a government, to be headed by former foreign envoy Mahmoud Jibril.


4:44pm

AP: NATO warships started patrolling off Libya's coast to enforce the UN arms embargo, as the alliance appeared set to assume responsibility for the no-fly zone over the North African nation to protect civilians.

Canada's Brig. General Pierre St. Amand said naval operation Unified Protector "is now under way'' with six vessels involved during the first day of patrols. NATO had already received offers for up to 16 ships to patrol the Mediterranean off Libya, he said.

5:00pm

AFP: Three journalists, including two from AFP, who were arrested in Libya at the weekend by Gaddafi's forces arrived in neighbouring Tunisia after being freed overnight.

5:04pm
Reuters: The United States bombed the wreckage of an F-15 fighter jet that went down in Libya on Monday night due to mechanical failure, a US military official said.
The official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said on Wednesday that the wreckage was bombed overnight "to prevent materials from getting into the wrong hands."

5:08pm

Reuters: Libyan air force no longer exists as a fighting force, a British commander says.

6:00pm

James Bays, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Benghazi, said there is a "thank you" rally taking place there.
People have gathered to thank Britain, France, the UN, and Qatar - the reason for it is to thank international nations that have taken part in this air campaign.
If you asked those people they'd say they'd like more air strikes until the members of their family, who are opposition fighters, make their way to Tripoli.
"Every family has someone who has gone towards the front line."
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  #397  
Old 23 Mar 11, 13:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShAA View Post
They did report, but a week or more after the war had ended. I remember these discussions here quite clearly. ...
Prior to the war, the only reporters covering Georgia were Army PR teams covering the annual training mission. The delay is really not unexpected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShAA View Post
Sorry, I'm not convinced. It's not the truth that is shown by them, but the version they're comfortable with.
How is that different than your bloggers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShAA View Post
There have at least been precedents of Western media doing such things - like the one I've described and the Katyn affair in WW2, for example.
Misdirection, no WWII reporters are present in Libya.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShAA View Post
We might wait for this to be revealed after some time. Just like in the 888 war. Meanwhile,
The Libyan government has no incentive to wait. They could have had pictures of the 'destroyed schools and hospitals' in the offices of der Spiegle the following morning. Or do you believe that the same editors who published the Kill Team story last week have any affection for a NFZ policy their own government is not supporting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShAA View Post
Who knows, it's quite possible there were pilots who loved Democracy and Mom's Apple Pie much more and just pulled the trigger.
I've seen similar stories going back to at least Desert Storm. Apparently stories of US and NATO restraint are not popular (comfortable) in Russia?
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  #398  
Old 23 Mar 11, 14:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCoyote View Post
Prior to the war, the only reporters covering Georgia were Army PR teams covering the annual training mission. The delay is really not unexpected.
Then why was the official Georgian government's position was presented as the only true one? If your statement was true, the delay would've been for all sides, not one

Quote:
How is that different than your bloggers?
Neither of us is there to say the full truth, but I trust them more than the Western media. Simply for the reason that it publishes outrageous lies about my own coutnry on a daily basis and I don't believe it would say the truth in Libya's case. We can agree to disagree here.

Quote:
Misdirection, no WWII reporters are present in Libya.
No, you've made a logic lapse here. It's the West I was speaking about, not reporters. The West hasn't changed its political system since WWII and if this system allowed to suppress the truth in the media while it was politically expedient (up to the end of the alliance), this sets the precedent.

Quote:
The Libyan government has no incentive to wait. They could have had pictures of the 'destroyed schools and hospitals' in the offices of der Spiegle the following morning. Or do you believe that the same editors who published the Kill Team story last week have any affection for a NFZ policy their own government is not supporting.
I would still take some time to wait. If no evidence is disclosed, I'll make a post here that I was wrong to believe this.

As for the media like Spiegel, I beg to differ. During the Chechen war they always published stories about Russian atrocities, but they never said a word about numerous beheadings of Russian soldiers which were recorded on video and are still available on the Web now (too gory to provide links to). The media is clearly taking sides on such issues, and as Qaddafi is the N1 villain, I don't expect to see much information on the "humanitarian failures" of his opponents.

Quote:
I've seen similar stories going back to at least Desert Storm. Apparently stories of US and NATO restraint are not popular (comfortable) in Russia?
I haven't heard of any massive atrocity stories during "Desert Storm". However, I did read about smart bombs finding their way in the ventilation ducts of bunkers full of civilians taking shelter from air raids during the 2003 invasion.
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Old 23 Mar 11, 15:24
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Originally Posted by ShAA View Post
Then why was the official Georgian government's position was presented as the only true one? If your statement was true, the delay would've been for all sides, not one
Before internet access was disrupted, the Georgian government went to great lengths to get its story out in order to garner western support. I would expect the Libyan government to be doing the same thing right now to try to crack the coalition. After all, they are the source of the claims and seem to be having no difficulty getting Ghaddafi's messages out for rebroadcast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShAA View Post
Neither of us is there to say the full truth, but I trust them more than the Western media. Simply for the reason that it publishes outrageous lies about my own coutnry on a daily basis and I don't believe it would say the truth in Libya's case. We can agree to disagree here.
Fair enough. I've seen fantasies published about the US a ten year old would not swallow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShAA View Post
No, you've made a logic lapse here. It's the West I was speaking about, not reporters. The West hasn't changed its political system since WWII and if this system allowed to suppress the truth in the media while it was politically expedient (up to the end of the alliance), this sets the precedent.
The fallacy in this case is yours. The West is not a person, it is a logical construct, a simplification for generalized discussion. Consider it an allowable strawman for situations were significant detail is not needed. It is not however a single coherent entity that you can attribute motives to without exception. Germany and France are both part of "the West" but have very different opinions on the crisis in Libya.

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Originally Posted by ShAA View Post
I would still take some time to wait. If no evidence is disclosed, I'll make a post here that I was wrong to believe this.
Fair enough. As long as no more cruise missiles are fired the evidence should not change. I suppose Khaddafi might decide to put some AAA on a hospital (Saddam did after all) but we will deal with that later.

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Originally Posted by ShAA View Post
As for the media like Spiegel, I beg to differ. During the Chechen war they always published stories about Russian atrocities, but they never said a word about numerous beheadings of Russian soldiers which were recorded on video and are still available on the Web now (too gory to provide links to). The media is clearly taking sides on such issues, and as Qaddafi is the N1 villain, I don't expect to see much information on the "humanitarian failures" of his opponents.
I have never noticed Spiegel to be shy in criticizing the US in the past. I only see the English online version when it hits one of my news searches so we will have to leave this for the moment. If I have time tonight I'll see if I can look for more related material.

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Originally Posted by ShAA View Post
I haven't heard of any massive atrocity stories during "Desert Storm". However, I did read about smart bombs finding their way in the ventilation ducts of bunkers full of civilians taking shelter from air raids during the 2003 invasion.
An accident frequently mis-represented as an atrocity to be sure. Also during 2003 there were reports and interviews with pilots who returned to base without dropping their bombs for the same reasons as the Canadian flyers you referred to above. But as I said at the beginning, accidents, atrocities, and crimes are typically big news 'in the west'.
-- $1.4 Million Dollar Missile Hits Hospital by Mistake --
Hence my skepticism.
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  #400  
Old 23 Mar 11, 16:01
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Originally Posted by GCoyote View Post
Before internet access was disrupted, the Georgian government went to great lengths to get its story out in order to garner western support.
Exactly, and so did the Russian side. Nevertheless, exclusively the Georgian side was presented as the "true" one. Why? But this is a rhetorical question, of course.

Quote:
I would expect the Libyan government to be doing the same thing right now to try to crack the coalition. After all, they are the source of the claims and seem to be having no difficulty getting Ghaddafi's messages out for rebroadcast.
Referring to the above paragraph, why wouldn't Qaddafi's efforts meet the fate of those made by the Russian side in the Georgian war? They were flatly ignored or presented like "the aggressor claimed" or something to this extent? After all, every single mainstream Western media outlet considers Qaddafi "untrustworthy villain deserving to be hanged" by definition - like they considered the Russian authorities in 2008 (and they still do). Why would the truth come out in such circumstances?

Quote:
The fallacy in this case is yours. The West is not a person, it is a logical construct, a simplification for generalized discussion. Consider it an allowable strawman for situations were significant detail is not needed. It is not however a single coherent entity that you can attribute motives to without exception. Germany and France are both part of "the West" but have very different opinions on the crisis in Libya.
Okay, we've had a lengthy discussion about the West more than an year ago and I wouldn't like to restart it. Let's change it to "US and UK suppressed the media in WWII in order not to reveal the truth". This is just an example showing the "free media" can be easily controlled by the government and censorship could be implemented.

Quote:
Fair enough. As long as no more cruise missiles are fired the evidence should not change. I suppose Khaddafi might decide to put some AAA on a hospital (Saddam did after all) but we will deal with that later.
Don't worry, I'll answer for my words. Either there's a hospital hit by airbombs or it's propaganda.
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  #401  
Old 23 Mar 11, 16:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShAA View Post
Okay, we've had a lengthy discussion about the West more than an year ago and I wouldn't like to restart it. Let's change it to "US and UK suppressed the media in WWII in order not to reveal the truth".
Hopefully, if you do that you'll do it in the appropriate WWII forum. This thread is about Libya

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Originally Posted by ShAA View Post
Don't worry, I'll answer for my words. Either there's a hospital hit by airbombs or it's propaganda.
How about providing a link to sites who are claiming hits by Coalition forces on hospitals, etc.?

The Tripoli govt. keep promising to take journalists to civilian site attacked by the Coalition, but it hasn't turned out that way so far. The nearest has been yesterday's trip to the navy section of the port facility which they claimed was civilian infrastructure (they said no-one was hurt in the attack). While the govt. minder was claiming it to be a civilian location, the camera was rolling showing destroyed missile launchers, anti-aircraft batteries and missiles under repair right behind him.

Today, the govt. minders said they would show the journalists evidence of civilian casualties but, after driving around for about an hour, they were unable to find the supposed location and returned the journalists to their hotel.

Latest from Al Jazeera:


6:32pm

(AFP) - Ground troops loyal to Gaddafi who are threatening rebel-held cities are now being targeted by coaliton airstrikes, the US military said.


7:38pm

Reuters: Norway may ground its six F-16 fighter jets due to take part in US-led sorties over Libya if
it deems their missions too dangerous for civilians in the North African state, the defence minister said.


8:36pm

Reuters: NATO envoys fail to agree on taking over command of Libya operations, says NATO diplomat.


8:41pm

AP: Canada carried out its first attacks in the UN-sponsored campaign to enforce a no-fly zone over Libya, dropping four laser-guided bombs on an ammunition depot.


9:23pm

Reuters: Doctor in Misurata saying government tanks are closing in on the hospital and shelling the area.


9:30pm
Libyan authorities say they will release Al Jazeera's reporting crew within 24 hours, after they were detained in west Libya last week.
The crew includes two correspondents, one Tunisian and another Mauritanian, and two cameramen, one Norwegian and one British.

Last edited by PhilipLaos; 23 Mar 11 at 20:11..
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  #402  
Old 23 Mar 11, 17:21
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Originally Posted by philiplaos View Post
12:38pm

Protesters in London demonstrate against the UN-mandated military action in Libya.


That picture just pisses me off. If those morons protested like that in Libya against Gadaffi they would be shot dead. I wonder if that little girl holding the sign has even a clue about the real world.
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Old 23 Mar 11, 18:01
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I have never noticed Spiegel to be shy in criticizing the US in the past. I only see the English online version when it hits one of my news searches so we will have to leave this for the moment. If I have time tonight I'll see if I can look for more related material.
SPON is bad enough in its german version but the english language one is so dumped down its mostly useless. They are partly translated from the german original but they frequently leave... juicy... bits out.

The site wants to make a profit, and you dont get that with sanity on the internet. The print version is better. Spiegel doesnt believe in giving you for free on the web what they want to sell you so theres only very few print articles there. Thats why they make a profit with their newspaper.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog...e-blog-germany
Quote:
3.28pm: Mascolo also had some interesting things to say about the media industry. He doesn't believe that newspapers should give away their content. Much of Spiegel's success – it posted huge profits last year – is due to the fact that Spiegel Online and the Spiegel magazine have almost entirely different editorial content, he says. (Spiegel Online posts only four or five articles from the weekly print edition. Its editorial operation is separate.) Mascolo politely criticises the Guardian's online model, where you can read all the paper's content for free. He says: "We decided years ago to raise the price for the magazine. It's already €4 (£3). You might say this is a lot of money but it isn't much more than a cafe latte in Starbucks. I don't believe in journalism for free. I believe if you want to have good quality you have to pay for it."
Spiegel online you dont have to pay for so you get...
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  #404  
Old 23 Mar 11, 18:12
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Latest updates from Al Jazeera's live blog:

9:50pm

Reuters: As night fell in the Libyan capital of Tripoli, locals said they heard eight explosions in the east of the city and saw smoke rising into the night sky.

10:00pm

Al Jazeera's Alan Fisher reports on Gaddafi's defiance, despite coalition action.



Reuters: Government tanks loyal to Gaddafi are positioned at the eastern and western entrances of the city of Ajdabiyah, Arabiya television reported.


11:16pm

Our correspondent Anita McNaught, in Tripoli, journalists were driven around the city earlier today with a promise from the government of being taken to see the scene of a coaltion air strike, some civilian casualties, maybe even a hospital.

"But none of this happened. After being driven around for 45 minutes or so, we were being taken back to the hotel and they said they couldn't find the right address."


11:25pm

Reuters quotes a doctor in the opposition-held city of Misurata as saying government forces are closing in on the hospital. "Government tanks are closing in on Misurata hospital and shelling the area," the doctor told the news agency before the line was cut off.
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Old 23 Mar 11, 20:09
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12:03am

Al Jazeera's Anita McNaught says there has been a series of "very big explosions" in the last hour. She says blasts were heard in "all sorts of directions" but in particular from the vicinity of Gaddafi's compound. There were also reports of a strike on a military base in the district of Tajoura, she said.



12:09am

Libyan state news agency JANA says coalition raids on a residential neighbourhood east of the capital have killed "a large number" of civilians.


12:33am

Libyan state TV reports that Western military powers have attacked civilian and military targets in Jafar, southwest of the capital Tripoli.

"Military and civilian targets were attacked by colonialist crusaders," the television said, quoting a Libyan military source.


1:14am

The top Republican in the US Congress has sharpened his criticism of President Barack Obama's handling of military operations in Libya, pressing him over the mission's cost, leadership and exit strategy.

House of Representatives Speaker John Boehner asked Obama in a letter how he would measure success in Libya and whether Muammar Gaddafi had to depart before the US military involvement ends.
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