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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > The Middle East

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The Middle East Asia Minor, the Arab Mahgreb, and the Persian Gulf to include tensions between Israel and its Arab neighbors, Terrorist organizations and Iran.

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  #331  
Old 20 Mar 11, 18:41
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More updates from Al Jazeera:

9:30pm

A group of three Italian Tornado fighter jets have taken off from an airbase in Sicily.

Earlier today, defence minister Ignazio La Russa said eight combat aircraft had been designated to support the UN-mandated campaign - and could be used "at any time".

9:35pm

More on those Qatari planes.

A French military spokesman has said four jets are expected to join the international campaign to enforce UN Security Council resolution 1973 - and will "soon" be arriving in the Libyan "zone of operations". Laurent Teisseire told reporters:

As announced by the Qatari authorities, it will deploy four planes in the zone to be able to take part in the operations, which is another sign of Arab participation in this international operation to protect civilians.


9:40pm

We're expecting a press conference to be given at the Pentagon in the next half hour or so. We'll bring you anything interesting they have to say right here on our liveblog...

9:52pm

Turkey is the latest state to say it will "contribute to international action" in Libya. Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said he hoped military operations would be over "as quickly as possible". The country's foreign ministry said:

Turkey will make the national contribution it deems necessary and appropriate to the applications of UN resolutions 1970 and 1973, taking into account the security of the Libyan people.

To this end, preparations and works are under way in cooperation with our civilian and military structures.


10:05pm

A "loud explosion" has been heard in Tripoli, amid anti-aircraft fire. More to come.

10:12pm

US military: We are not coordinating our strikes with opposition fighters

10:20pm

Anita McNaught, reporting from Tripoli, tells Al Jazeera, above the noise of anti-aircraft fire, of the scene around her.

The shooting is much closer to our position now, but we still can't hear any aircraft. Of course, they may be flying too high, or the fire may be targeting missiles, as they were last night. It is impossible to see from here, though we have a good view of the city, we can't see any smoke or any fires breaking out.

But all around us, there is anti-aircraft fire going off. So there is an expectation of something happening, if it hasn't already ...

These offers of a ceasefire are a little strange, seeing as there is already the offer of a ceasefire from the foreign minister yesterday.

You have to ask if this is a decision being made in the full view of the Libyan public. When the military spokesman was asked if this was going to be broadcast on state TV and Libyans would be made aware that there was a ceasefire offer, he said no.


10:26pm

Anita reports a "huge explosion in the general direction of Gaddafi's Bab al-Azizia compound".

10:27pm

US military: "We are not aware of any civilian casualites" from last night's bombing in Libya.

10:29pm

US military: "We're not going after Gaddafi."

10:35pm

We'll be bringing you that Pentagon press conference in its entirety, just as soon as we get it uploaded. Watch this space...

10:42pm

So, a second night of bombardment is underway in Tripoli, with explosions being heard across the Libyan capital as the Pentagon gave a press conference on last night's attacks.

Several blasts rocked the city, say Reuters. The news agency also confirmed what Al Jazeera's Anita Mcnaught told us, that a plume of smoke was seen rising toward the sky from the direction of Gaddafi's home in the Bab el-Aziziya compound - which sits in the heart of a south Tripoli suburb.

10:46pm

The Pentagon said it had lost no aircraft in the first day of attacks on Libya -and "questions all statements" from Gaddafi - including his offer of a ceasefire.

10:50pm

Greek communists in Athens have been demonstrating in against their country's involvement in the military campaign in Libya. Protester Tasia Kontoyanni said:

With today's demonstration, the Greek Communist Party and its youth movement give a first reply to the
imperialists' operation and attack in Libya.

We believe that every people must have the right to decide on internal issues alone, without external operations - and in particular without military operations.


10:53pm

The death toll is higher than previously thought. Rebel spokesman Abdel Hafiz Ghoga told Al Jazeera Arabic:

Our dead and martyrs number more than 8,000 killed.


11:00pm

Explosions and small arms fire, lasting around 40 minutes, has been heard in central Benghazi, residents have told Reuters.
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  #332  
Old 20 Mar 11, 19:14
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CNN are reporting two Cruise missiles have totally destroyed a building inside Gadhaffi's large compound.


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  #333  
Old 20 Mar 11, 20:21
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Just catching up

Today's emergency meeting of the Arab League did not support Amr Moussa's earlier statement. Instead they simply reiterated their support for the NFZ.

Qatar has never deployed farther than a hop over to Saudi for routine training. This could take them a while.

Qaddafi has been spreading cash and influence around in sub-Saharan African for over a decade and that probably buys him some support. That and number of them were also Col/Generals that became "President" at gunpoint.
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  #334  
Old 20 Mar 11, 21:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philiplaos View Post
More updates from Al Jazeera:

Earlier today, defence minister Ignazio La Russa said eight combat aircraft had been designated to support the UN-mandated campaign - and could be used "at any time".
As long as they can get the pilots away from hitting on the local women near the air base.



Quote:
US military: We are not coordinating our strikes with opposition fighters
How utterly PC of them. He is a bad man. It is OK to target him. In fact, it would be a good thing to target and kill him as soon as possible. Or are we worried he is going to be someone's martyr?


Quote:
US military: "We're not going after Gaddafi."
Yes, we got that already. But you really should go after him. It is OK to kill evil dictators you know.


Quote:
The Pentagon said it had lost no aircraft in the first day of attacks on Libya -and "questions all statements" from Gaddafi - including his offer of a ceasefire.
But they will not target him just in case he wants to make more statements that they can question.

Quote:
Greek communists in Athens have been demonstrating in against their country's involvement in the military campaign in Libya. Protester Tasia Kontoyanni said:

With today's demonstration, the Greek Communist Party and its youth movement give a first reply to the
imperialists' operation and attack in Libya.
Following the protest about Libya, they once again demanded that the Germans send them more money.

Quote:
We believe that every people must have the right to decide on internal issues alone, without external operations - and in particular without military operations.
And more particularly, without elections

Quote:
The death toll is higher than previously thought. Rebel spokesman Abdel Hafiz Ghoga told Al Jazeera Arabic:

Our dead and martyrs number more than 8,000 killed.
Uh Oh. The supposed good guys are talking about their Martyrs. I don't like the sound of that.
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  #335  
Old 20 Mar 11, 22:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Persephone View Post
Sounds like the Arabs do not have the backbone for this sort of stuff. They can't even stand behind and support their own decisions.

They are preparing their "blame the West" statements. I'm sure it will be all over the news Monday morning that the West are the bad guys aka aggressors.
Told you so.

The Arabs will contribute nothing but hot-air to any of this.
And what happeded to the two ships from Iran that entered the Med amid such fan-fare a few weeks ago?
I guess they are still having shore-leave in Syria...
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  #336  
Old 21 Mar 11, 00:53
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Question:

With all the nations contributing forces to enforce the NFZ, is there any sort of C&C coordinating their strikes? and logistics? and expenses?
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  #337  
Old 21 Mar 11, 01:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMan88 View Post
Question:

With all the nations contributing forces to enforce the NFZ, is there any sort of C&C coordinating their strikes? and logistics? and expenses?
At the moment the USA is in the Command and Control position -- but planning to hand off by mid week

Expense is not my field

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  #338  
Old 21 Mar 11, 04:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMan88 View Post
1) I think the resolution was clear in it's intention: to protect the civilians through a NFZ. We know that what's actually happening is quite different: it's a coordinated attack against gaddafi's forces, designed to cripple his army. But that leaves the rebels. Are they allowed to counterattack?

2) Someone already posted about that ealier, about how the west will get blamed if they act, and will get blamed if they don't act with the difference being there's no danger of casualties for not acting. Is there anyone here who seriously thought that region will be a fountain of gratitude?
1) It's covered in the UN resolution...check it out.

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973


2) It's not a matter of gratitude. The Arabs asked for the West to intervene in Libya and now they are acting as if the West went about it without any Arab support.

Quote:
Arab states back Libya no-fly zone against Gaddafi

RAS LANUF, Libya/CAIRO, (Reuters) - Arab countries appealed to the United Nations on Saturday to impose a no-fly zone on Libya as government troops backed by warplanes fought to drive rebels from remaining strongholds in western Libya.


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  #339  
Old 21 Mar 11, 11:25
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Al Jazeera latest updates:

4:14am

The AFP newsagency, quoting the coalition, says Gaddafi's military control centre was the target of strikes on Sunday and was destroyed.

Libyan officals took journalists to see what they claimed was the damage from a missile attack. Officials said the missiles had struck very near to Gaddafi's tent.

Anita McNaught, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Tripoli, said journalists taken to the scene asked officials why there was no smoke or fire. One official said he didn't know because he wasn't a military expert.

10:34am

UK defence secretary Liam Fox has told BBC Radio 5 that targeting Gaddafi himself - something the United States has thus far denied doing - could "potentially be a possibility" if civilians would not be harmed.

Robert Gates, the US defence secretary, responded negatively to Fox's comments. He said expanding the coalition's goals could divide it and that it was "unwise" to set such specific goals that might be unachievable.

10:38am
Amr Moussa, the secretary general of the Arab League, appeared to backtrack on the League's support for the coalition yesterday, saying the jet and cruise-missile strikes "differ[ed] from the aim of imposing a no-fly zone."

Moussa and his colleagues had asked the UN Security Council days before to institute a no-fly zone and left it up to the member states as to how it might be carried out, so yesterday's remarks had some observers scratching their heads.

Today, UK foreign secretary William Hague attempted a bit of damage control. Hague said he had spoken with Moussa, who still supported the coalition.
"I think too much was made of Amr Moussa's comments," he said. "I will be talking to him again today."

11:53am

Iraq's government has expressed support for international efforts to "protect Libyan people," a spokesman said, according to Reuters.

12:05pm

Well, the UN-sanctioned air strikes are having an affect, or everyone who was going to flee Libya has already fled; either way, the UN Refugee Agency says it has seen a decrease in the flow of Libyans leaving for Egypt in the past 48 hours.

Some Libyans in Egypt have also returned to their country, a spokeswoman for the agency said.

12:11pm

Meanwhile, the violence continues inside Libya. Rob Crilly, a correspondent for the Telegraph newspaper, tweets that he was halted during an attempt to get into Ajdabiya - south of Benghazi - because rebels in front of him were caught in an ambush and four were killed. Rebels may still be trapped inside Ajdabiya by pro-Gaddafi troops, he says.

12:30pm

UN chief Ban Ki-moon, who spoke with Amr Moussa in Cairo today, was mobbed by dozens of pro-Gaddafi demonstrators today, the AFP reports. Ban was going to walk to Tahrir Square, the heart of the Egyptian revolution, but the demonstrators forced his delegation back into the Arab League.

12:41pm

The Guardian newspaper's Chris McGreal was on the road today near Ajdabiya, around 160km south of Benghazi, where Gaddafi troops are still fighting with rebels. That appears to be the current front line. The rebels, he says, view the coalition airstrikes "as part of their campaign." That's not what the West wants to hear; they're trying to keep themselves from becoming embroiled in a full-scale regime change effort.


1:20pm

Namik Tan, the Turkish ambassador to the United States, has written on Twitter that the four New York Times journalists - two reporters and two photographers - "are on their way to leave Libyan border and will be delivered to US officials."

Since US diplomatic personnel have withdrawn from Libya and the embassy has been shut down, Turkey is serving as the protector of US interests in the country. Tan said they were released this morning after negotiations between Turkey and Libya.


2:28pm

Swiss journalist Gaetan Vannay has been in the western city of Zintan for the past nine days and says the eastern outskirts of the city are currently under fire and have been since yesterday.

3:01pm

The head of Britain's armed forces has told AFP news agency that Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi was "absolutely not" a target for military action.

General Sir David Richards, the chief of the defence staff, was speaking after British Foreign Secretary William Hague refused to rule out that air strikes could specifically target Gaddafi.

In an interview with BBC radio earlier, Hague declined to be drawn into the details of military targets.

3:20pm

Vladimir Putin, Russian prime minister, said on Monday a UN resolution authorizing military action in Libya resembled "mediaeval calls for crusades" after Western forces launched a second wave of air strikes.

3:30pm

European Union foreign minister are meeting in Brussels to discuss ongoing situation in Libya.

3:45pm

Jacob Zuma, the South African president, said on Monday that his country does not support "the regime change doctrine" in Libya, and called for restraint from foreign countries enforcing a no-fly zone.

Zuma said:

As South Africa we say no to the killing of civilians, no to the regime change doctrine and no to the foreign occupation of Libya,", one of five heads of state on a high-level African Union panel on Libya.

4:01pm

There are reports of heavy shelling by pro-Gaddafi troops in western city of Zintan.

4:08pm

Iran condemns military intervention in Libya, AFP news agency reported Khamenei as saying.

4:12pm

Libyan opposition National Council says eastern gate of Ajdabiya has been recaptured.

Burnt-out vehicles line on the road between Ajdabiya and Benghazi, Al Jazeera correspondent reports.

4:30pm

Libyan rebels say pro-Gaddafi troops in Misurata are using a number of civilians from neighbouring towns as human shields.

4:31pm

The following picture was twitted by @Abdallah__B:




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  #340  
Old 21 Mar 11, 12:33
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Quote:
The Guardian newspaper's Chris McGreal was on the road today near Ajdabiya, around 160km south of Benghazi, where Gaddafi troops are still fighting with rebels. That appears to be the current front line. The rebels, he says, view the coalition airstrikes "as part of their campaign." That's not what the West wants to hear; they're trying to keep themselves from becoming embroiled in a full-scale regime change effort.

OH Come on
!! Do we have idiots running all these governments or what? If this is not about regime change and not about helping the rebels, then what is it exactly are they doing there? And what about all those calls for Khaddafi to go?

I cannot believe that mature people in responsible positions could actually say things so completely stupid!!

News flash for those deluding themselves otherwise. We are helping the rebels in their campaign and we are trying to change the regime. That is what is meant by, ""It's time for Khadaffi to go".
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Old 21 Mar 11, 12:41
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No US politics in the non-political forums, pretty please.
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Old 21 Mar 11, 12:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwolf View Post
No US politics in the non-political forums, pretty please.
How is a statement of facts political? Other than the implicit criticism of politicians for double talk?

Or are you saying that we aren't helping the rebels and aren't engaged in regime change?
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Old 21 Mar 11, 13:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwolf View Post
No US politics in the non-political forums, pretty please.
OK --- CLARIFY !!!

How is what Miss Saigon just said -- IN ANY WAY US POLITICS ???

Are we starting this "Thread Police" stuff again ???

Do you honestly think that the items listed in the "Description" are non political ???

That would be delusional thinking !

Look for yourself -- here is the description of where you are on this thread !

The Middle East Asia Minor, the Arab Mahgreb, and the Persian Gulf to include tensions between Israel and its Arab neighbors, Terrorist organizations and Iran.

Reality Check in Progress !!!!

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  #344  
Old 21 Mar 11, 13:36
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Mixing "idiots" and "government" in the same sentence, all right? Now that I re-read it I realize it's not addressed to US politics, so fine, I retract my recommendation.

Besides, everybody knows we *are* run by monkeys
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Old 21 Mar 11, 13:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwolf View Post
Mixing "idiots" and "government" in the same sentence, all right? Now that I re-read it I realize it's not addressed to US politics, so fine, I retract my recommendation.

Besides, everybody knows we *are* run by monkeys

OK -- now we agree - but I would change the working slightly in order to maintain "PC" -- which I am so in favor of to begin with

How about "Besides, everybody knows we *are* run by the totally inept" instead

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