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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > The Middle East

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The Middle East Asia Minor, the Arab Mahgreb, and the Persian Gulf to include tensions between Israel and its Arab neighbors, Terrorist organizations and Iran.

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  #256  
Old 18 Mar 11, 22:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Franz View Post
Do they have landing craft available - or is it all "Chopper" based ?
Three large hovercraft per Wasp-class amphibious assault ship. They can go out the back of the ship. The USS Bataan is the one in front of Libya right now. The USS Kearsarge was there earlier this week but apparently it only had 500 Marines on board, which is why the Bataan seems to have replaced it. I dunno where it went. Picking up more troops and ammo sounds plausible.

ETA: here's a pic


Man, I want one of those so bad. It has the equivalent of a small country's entirely military in a package you can take to lake ontario.

Last edited by Redwolf; 18 Mar 11 at 22:52..
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  #257  
Old 18 Mar 11, 22:55
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Bataan Amphibious Ready Group To Deploy

Details - http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=59168
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  #258  
Old 18 Mar 11, 23:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwolf View Post
Three large hovercraft per Wasp-class amphibious assault ship. They can go out the back of the ship. The USS Bataan is the one in front of Libya right now. The USS Kearsarge was there earlier this week but apparently it only had 500 Marines on board, which is why the Bataan seems to have replaced it. I dunno where it went. Picking up more troops and ammo sounds plausible.
I'm guessing the Kearsage is still there - the Bataan doesn't get there till next Wednesday --

They both sound like very capable units.

I have no experience with things Naval - or Marine -- my experience is with very small "teams" doing other stuff.

Even though they look ready to go -- I don't think I'd like the close confinement and long down time that they must be experiencing while they wait for something to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwolf View Post
ETA: here's a pic


Man, I want one of those so bad. It has the equivalent of a small country's entirely military in a package you can take to lake ontario.
And if you had one -- you'd be very sorry when "Pay Day" came around -- or you opened the mail and got the "Food and Fuel Bill" for a month LOL

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  #259  
Old 18 Mar 11, 23:12
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I can't get over how awesome those ships are. I never realize how serious they were in putting large amounts of men on the shore at the same time.

The hovercraft can get a platoon of Marines or a MBT right out of the ship, onto the beach, up the promenade, take a left at the highway and park in front of the diner. Weapons mountpoint have been tested with 30mm gatling guns. Harriers, sea hawks, cobras. What more could you want? F-35s? No problem.

Anybody knows why these have 12.7mm MGs by default and not .50cals?

Quote:
And if you had one -- you'd be very sorry when "Pay Day" came around -- or you opened the mail and got the "Food and Fuel Bill" for a month LOL
What, it's less than a billion. Sounds like a bargin to me. And no stupid nuclear reactor either.

Last edited by Redwolf; 18 Mar 11 at 23:16..
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  #260  
Old 18 Mar 11, 23:23
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If I had a decent Libya map I think I'd have to fire up TacOps and play with this a bit. [inside joke] Oh well.
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  #261  
Old 19 Mar 11, 00:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwolf View Post
Anybody knows why these have 12.7mm MGs by default and not .50cals?
12.7mm IS .50!
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  #262  
Old 19 Mar 11, 00:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer86g View Post
12.7mm IS .50!
Not really -- they are not interchangeable -- casing doesn't fit and the round is larger - minutely - but larger

I thought exactly the same thing - so I looked it up on Wiki ( I cheated)

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  #263  
Old 19 Mar 11, 00:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCoyote View Post
Probably that it isn't possible to use tanks, large caliber artillery, multiple rocket launchers, and infantry fighting vehicles inside a city and not cause at least some civilian casualties. The UN resolution just seems to give a lot of latitude if the only thing the enforcing powers cannot do is 'occupy Libya'.
Yes, but what's his basis for demanding that gaddafi vacate the newly captured cities?

Gaddafi also goes on to invite international observers. Any plans towards this? Or is this a trick?
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  #264  
Old 19 Mar 11, 01:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMan88 View Post
Yes, but what's his basis for demanding that gaddafi vacate the newly captured cities?

Gaddafi also goes on to invite international observers. Any plans towards this? Or is this a trick?
Playing for time. All the news sites I've pulled up report heavy fighting in multiple locations. By the observers are selected and get to Libya and then get to the scene with their government 'handlers' even the body bags will be gone.
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  #265  
Old 19 Mar 11, 12:32
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French fighter jets are now patrolling over Libya. Some of Gadhaffi's armoured forces have entered Benghazi, making attacks on them difficult if civilian casualties are to be avoided. Lot's of things happening right now.

This fighter jet was shot down over Benghazi today. You can see the pilot ejecting, apparently too late for his parachute to open. It's not yet clear if it was a rebel plane or Gadhaffi's plane, or who shot it down.



Latest updates from Al Jazeera's live blog:

#
12:33am

A US national security official on Friday said forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi, the Libyan leader, continued to advance towards the eastern rebel stronghold of Benghazi despite the ceasefire proclamation.
#
Timestamp:
12:40am

Rebels in Benghazi braced amid rumours that pro-Gaddafi forces were within striking distance of the city and planning an evening assault. Hundreds of men, some on pick-up trucks mounted with machine-guns, flooded out of the city in response to a call from the rebel-run radio to man their posts.
#
Timestamp:
1:48am

Gerard Araud, the French envoy to the UN, said he expects military intervention in Libya within hours of a Paris summit on Saturday.
#
Timestamp:
3:05am

Speaking after the response by Moussa Koussa, Libya's foreign minister, on Friday, Gaddafi said there was no justification for the UN resolution aimed at ending violence in Libya.

This is blatant colonialism. It does not have any justification. This will have serious consequences on the Mediterranean and on Europe.

In 2011 they are colonising us, massacring us, and imposing one no-fly zone after the other and one military attack after another. What is this racism? What is this hatred?

#
Timestamp:
6:49am

Large explosions were heard in the eastern Libyan city of Benghazi, the rebel stronghold, early on Saturday, a Reuters witness said.

A fighter jet could be heard over the city, the witness said, adding that the explosions were strong enough to shake a building.
#
Timestamp:
7:29am

"The explosions started about 2 a.m. Gaddafi's forces are advancing, we hear they're 20kms from Benghazi," Faraj Ali, a local resident, said.

"It's land-based fire. We saw one aircraft," he added.
#
Timestamp:
8:51am

Al Jazeera reporter in Benghazi says some shelling happening now, with a jet just crossing over the town. Reports of some people being injured in the bombing, possibly some deaths.
#
Timestamp:
9:01am

Reports from Al Jazeera reporter in Benghazi that pro-Gaddafi forces have entered the suburbs of the city.
#
Timestamp:
9:14am
Al Jazeera's Tony Birtely says that a plane has been shot down in Benghazi. More details to follow.
#
Timestamp:
9:36am

Al Jazeera reporters in Benghazi say that their vehicle has been hit by a mortar round - the vehicle was not occupied at the time. Also reports of artillery attacks on Gamal Abdel Nasser street in central Benghazi.
#
Timestamp:
9:54am

Libya's government says that its armed forces are under attack west of the rebel-held stronghold of Benghazi and have responded in self-defence.

This was issued in a statement carried by the official Jana news agency:

The gangs of Al-Qaeda attacked the units of the Libyan armed forces stationed to the west of Benghazi.

The statement accused the rebels of using "a helicopter and a fighter jet to bomb the Libyan armed forces in blatant violation of the no-fly zone imposed by the UN Security Council."

10:04am

Artillery shells being shot into Benghazi from about 20km away, Al Jazeera's Tony Birtely reports.

#
10:28am

Pro-democracy fighters have erected concrete barricades on the roads leading to the courthouse building where the rebel National Libyan Council has its base.

Khalid al-Sayeh, a rebel military spokesman, told Reuters:

They have entered Benghazi from the west. Where are the Western powers? They said they could strike within hours.

#
Timestamp:
10:30am

The international community must act fast over the situation in Libya, a French government source says.

"Everything is ready (to act) but the decision is now a political one. It's clear we have to move quickly," the source said, hours before France was due to host an international meeting to discuss military intervention.
#
Timestamp:
10:45am

The Security Council "has acted responsibly to protect and save the lives of defenceless civilians who are faced with brutal acts of violence carried out by the Libyan authorities," the South African foreign ministry says.

The decision "constitutes an important element for the protection of civilians and the safety of the delivery of humanitarian assistance to those most vulnerable and those desperately in need of such assistance," it said in a statement.

#
10:55am

Al Jazeera's James Bays reporting live from Benghazi:

We are still hearing gunfire in the distance - I heard an explosion just moments ago from that direction...

We have seen anti-aircraft guns going along the road in that direction, we have also seen ambulances and medical staff making their way in that direction in the last half hour or so...

#
Timestamp:
11:11am
Mustafa Abdul Jalil, the head of the Libyan Interim Council, tells Al Jazeera that residential areas in Benghazi are under attack by artillery and tanks. He also said that the plane shot down belongs to the rebels.
#
Timestamp:
11:26am

Abdul Jalil also tells us that Benghazi hospitals are now being flooded with victims. He says that the pro-democracy fighters do not have enough weapons and numbers to confront Gaddafi:

"We only have light arms - Gaddafi seems to have new and powerful weapons."
#
Timestamp:
11:49am

Abdul Jalil, head of National Libyan Council, also said:

Now there is a bombardment by artillery and rockets on all districts of Benghazi

The international community is late in intervening to save civilians from Gaddafi's forces. Today in Benghazi there will be a catastrophe if the international community does not implement the resolutions of the U.N. Security Council.

We appeal to the international community, to the all the free world, to stop this tyranny from exterminating civilians.

#
Timestamp:
12:03pm

Gaddafi spokesman reads out letter to president Obama:

To Baracka Hussein Obama... I have all the Libyan people supporting me and they are prepared to die for me... I am facing al Qaeda here - what would you do?

The second letter is to Ban Ki-Moon, president Sarkozy of France and the UK's David Cameron:

Libya is not yours.. You have no right to intervene into our internal affairs. This is our country, it is not your country. We can never shoot a single bullet onto our people...

He also warns the world leaders of retaliation if they persist.
#
Timestamp:
12:14pm

A spokesman for the rebel National Libyan Council reported a bombardment on the western town of Zintan by Gaddafi forces and said five shells had fallen on the outskirts.

The spokesman, who was named only as Adel, was speaking to Al Arabiya television.
#
Timestamp:
12:18am

Here is revised text of the speeches that Gaddafi's spokesman read out:

The first letter to brother leader to Barack Obama:

"To our son, his excellency, Mr Baracka Hussein Obama. I have said to you before, that even if Libya and the United States of America enter into a war, god forbid, you will always remain a son. Your picture will not be changed. I want you to remain in the same image. I have all the people of Libya with me, and I'm prepared to die and we have all the men, children and women with me. Nothing more. Al Qaeda is an armed organisation, passing through Algeria, Mauritania and Mali. What would you do if you found them controlling American cities with the power of weapons? What would you do, so I can follow your example."

Letter to Ban Ki Moon, Sarkozy and Cameron:

"Libya is not yours, Libya is for the Libyans. The security council, their resolution is void because it is not according to the charter to interfere with the internal affairs of the country. You have no right. You will regret if you get involved in this, our country. We can never shoot a single bullet on our people, it is Al Qaeda organisation."
#
Timestamp:
1:00pm

Libya's government announced an immediate ceasefire on Friday, but government forces were said to have entered the western edge of the city on Saturday. Al Jazeera's Alan Fisher reports.

#
1:08pm

Libyan forces loyal to Gaddafi fired artillery shells into the rebel-held city of Misurata and water supplies were still cut off, a resident said.

"They (Gaddafi's forces) bombed the town with four or five artillery shells in the early hours today. The situation is relatively calm now. But they are still on the outskirts of the town, and water to Misrata is still cut off," the resident, called Mohammed, told Reuters by telephone from the city.

Libyan government officials deny attacking rebels and say they are observing a ceasefire.

Reports from Misrata could not be verified independently because authorities in Tripoli have prevented journalists from reaching the city.
#
Timestamp:
1:15pm

Libyan state TV says that interior minister Abdel Fatah Yunes, who defected to the rebels at the beginning of March, had returned to the Gaddafi camp and to his old job.
#
Timestamp:
1:23am

The head of the Libyan National Council, Mustafa Abdul Jalil, just denied Libyan state TV reports that defected interior Minister Abdel Fatah Younis has defected the rebels and joined Gaddafi forces again.

It seems that there is a media war going on between Gaddafi and rebels.
#
Timestamp:
1:36pm

Snipers loyal to Gaddafi have killed two people in Misurata, a resident told Reuters. \

"We have two people dead this morning ... because there are snipers on some houses and they are shooting people, they are shooting whoever they see," the resident, called Saadoun, told Reuters by telephone.
#
Timestamp:
2:00pm

Jordan, Morocco, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates are the Arab nations attending Saturday's summit in Paris on action in Libya, a diplomat told AFP.

Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari will also attend in his capacity as current head of the Arab League. The League's Secretary General Amr Moussa will also take part.
#
Timestamp:
2:46pm

The Libyan government in Tripoli has once again asked the international community to monitor a ceasefire in the country. Moussa Khoussa, the country's foreign minister, says that his government has requested Ban Ki-moon, the UN secretary-general, to send international observers.

We announced a ceasefire, which is proof that Libya has responded positively to the decisions of the United Nations.

"And to prove our credibility, we have asked the secretary general of the United Nations to send international observers.

"We also underlined our commitment to respect UN (Security Council) Resolution 1973 in messages to the secretary general and to the members of the Security Council.

"Thus, Libya has fulfilled all of its obligations to the international community."

#
Timestamp:
2:52pm

An opposition spokesman in Benghazi has told Reuters that anti-government troops have "pushed Gaddafi's forces out of Benghazi".

Nasr al-Kikili, a lawyer who works for the opposition's media centre in the city, said:

We revolutionaries have taken control of four tanks inside Benghazi. Rebel forces have pushed Gaddafi's forces out of Benghazi and are combing the western gate area for Gaddafi's troops."

#
Timestamp:
3:05pm

Al Jazeera's James Bays in Benghazi reports that with pro-Gaddafi forces moving ever closer to the city, "the time for [international] action was some hours ago", and that if Gaddafi forces make it to the city, they will be "very difficult" to target.
#
Timestamp:
3:08pm

Shukri Ghanim, the nead of Libya's national oil company, says the country has been honouring its commitments, but that production has dropped sharply due to foreign workers leaving.
#
Timestamp:
3:12pm

Six Danish F-16 fighter jets have landed at the US naval air station in Sigonella, Sicily, Lars Skjoldan, a Danish air force spokesman, says. Norway will also be contributing six F-16's to an international military effort in Libya, in line with UN resolution 1973.

[The image below is of an F-16 fighter jet at an air show in Australia in 2009, courtesy GALLO/GETTY]



#
3:23pm

Opposition fighters in Misurata say they have beaten back an assault by pro-Gaddafi forces, destroying heavy armour but also suffering 27 casualties in the process, AFP reports.


#
Timestamp:
3:27pm

Karl Stagno-Navarra, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Malta, reports that the Maltese government has said that any monitoring of a ceasefire in Libya should by carried out "under the auspices of the United Nations".

Earlier, Tripoli had requested Malta to be part of a group of countries requested to monitor the ceasefire.
#
Timestamp:
3:33pm

The Associated Press reports that people in Benghazi were seen earlier today collecting bottles to make gasoline fire-bombs, while others dragged bed frames and metal scrap to set up roadblocks around the city.
#
Timestamp:
3:34pm

Musa Ibrahim, the government's spokesman, has told the Associated Press that government forces have been abiding by a "ceasefire" but that opposition fighters have been "provoking us".

Our armed forces continue to retreat and hide, but the rebels keep shelling us and provoking us."

#
Timestamp:
3:40pm

Reuters quotes a Canadian government spokesman as saying that his country backs quick action in Libya, and would need two days to prepare a mission with its fighter jets in the region.
#
Timestamp:
3:47pm

Rashid Khalikov, the UN's humanitarian coordinator for Libya, tells Al Jazeera that his agency is expecting many more Libyans to flee towards the country's eastern border with Egypt over the coming days.
#
Timestamp:
4:06pm

Al Jazeera's James Bays in Benghazi reports that "fresh thuds in the distance and smoke can be seen, so it appears Benghazi is still under attack".

He reports that the attacks appear to be mortar and artillery fire, but are being heard from "further away from the city ... that might confirm reports that are coming in that Gaddafi's forces are being pushed back".

Bays reported that opposition fighters have been asking "Where is this no-fly zone?"

Incidentally, he appeared in shot without his body armour, which he had been wearing earlier, so we can assume that in his assessment (that of a seasoned conflict correspondent, we may add), at least, the danger in Benghazi has lessened since about an hour ago.
#
Timestamp:
4:10pm

Reuters reports that residents of Misurata are saying that snipers are shooting people in that city from rooftops, and a main hospital says it cannot operate on the wounded because it has run out of anaesthetic.

Meanwhile, Abdel Fatah Younis, the former interior minister who abandoned Libya's government and who the government claimed today had returned to it, has told Al Jazeera that those government reports are false.

He said that pictures aired of him meeting Gaddafi on Libyan state television are of a previous meeting, and are not recent.
#
Timestamp:
4:17pm

French media group BFMTV's website claims that French planes have flown over Benghazi to prevent pro-Gaddafi army movements.
#
Timestamp:
4:20pm

French reconnaissance planes have entered Libyan airspace, several news agencies are now reporting, citing French military sources.
#
Timestamp:
4:22pm

AFP reports that French planes are Rafale fighter jets, flying reconnaissance missions across "all Libyan territory", citing a military source.

[File image: GALLO/GETTY]



#
4:32pm

Al Jazeera is hearing from French journalists that French fighter jets will begin their strike operations by targetting pro-Gaddafi tanks around Benghazi in order to send a message that they are breaking the siege.


#
Timestamp:
4:34pm

Mohammed Nabbous, a pro-democracy opposition activist who Al Jazeera has been in touch with through phone interviews and who has also provided us with footage from Benghazi, has been shot and killed today.

Nabbous shared video from Libya through his website, here.
#
Timestamp:
4:43pm

Al Jazeera just received the following email from a member of Libya AlHurra Television, which has been hosting a livestream that Mohammad Nabbous was providing from Benghazi.



I am sorry to inform you that Mohammed Nabbous, the founder of Libya AlHurra TV, was killed this morning while reporting on the attacks from the pro-Gaddafi forces. He touched the hearts of many with his bravery and indomnitable spirit. He will be dearly missed and leaves behind his young wife and unborn child.

[...]

Mo's objective in founding Libya AlHurra was to help his countrymen by getting the word out about what is happening in Libya. Please honor this courageous man and help him realize his dream by using his footage in your broadcasts.

*
4:51pm

Nicolas Sarkozy, the French president, has just made a short speech to the press in Paris. Quotes soon.
*
Timestamp:
4:53pm

Major points from that Sarkozy speech include a statement that those present at the summit in Paris have agreed to ensure that the UN Security Council resolution is implemented and that an immediate ceasefire is declared.

He said that the international community has "agreed to apply all means necessary".

International aircraft will "prevent aerial attacks" on Benghazi and will protect civilians.

He also said the "door to diplomacy will reopen when the fighting will stop".

Full transcript to follow.
*
Timestamp:
5:18pm

Al Arabiya television reports, citing a witness, that pro-Gaddafi forces have bombarded Az Zintan in western Libya, and tanks are heading to the city.

The station also reports that Italian planes have begun surveillance missions over Libya.
*
Timestamp:
5:25pm

Here, as promised, is a full transcript of President Sarkozy's comments, made a few minutes ago.

Together, we have decided to ensure the resolution of the Security Council demanding an immediate ceasefire and the stopping of fighting in Libya. The participants have agreed to apply all means necessary, in particular military ones, to respect the decisions of the UN Security Council.

"That is why in agreement with our partners, our air forces will fight any aggression on behalf of Colonel Gaddafi against the population of Benghazi. Our planes will prevent aerial attacks on the town. Other French planes are ready to intervene against tanks who would threaten civilian people.

"From yesterday, France, the United Kingdom, the United States, and Arab countries have sent to Colonel Gaddafi and to the troops that he employs the follow warning: in the absence of an immediate ceasefire, and failing a withdrawal of the forces that have attacked the civilian population over the last few weeks, our countries will resort to military action.

"This warning was repeated by all the participants at the summit that has just concluded. Colonel Gaddafi has disregarded this warning. During the last few hours his troops have intensified their deadly offensive.

"Arab countries have chosen to free themselves from the slavery in which they felt themselves trapped for too long. These revolutions have created an enormous hope in the heart of all those who share the values of democracy and the rights of man.

"But it is not without risk. The future of these Arab people belongs to them. In the midst of all the difficulties and challenges that they have been faced with these Arab populations need our help and our support and it is our duty.

"In Libya, a civilian population which is passive which requires nothing further than the right to choose itself its destiny finds itself in danger of life. We have a duty to respond to its angst-ridden call.

"The future of Libya belongs to the Libyans. We do not want to take a decision on their behalf. The fight that they are undergoing is their's. If we intervene on the side of Arab nations, it is not to impose on the Libyan people, but to apply to a universal conscience that cannot tolerate such crimes.

"Today, our intervening in Libya with the mandate of the UNSC, with our partners, namely our Arab partners, we do it to protect the civilian population, and to protect it from the deadly madness of a regime which by assassinating and killing its own people has lost any legitimacy. We intervene to allow the Libya people to choose itself, its destiny.

"It cannot be prevented from these rights through terror and violence.

"There is still time for Colonel Gaddafi to avoid the worst by agreeing unreservedly to all the requirements of the international community.

"The door of diplomacy will reopen when the fighting will stop. Our determination is total, and I say it with solemnity. Everyone now finds themselves faced with their responsibilities. It is a serious decision that we have been forced to take, together with our Arab partners, our European partners, our North American partners, France has decided to take up its role in front of history."

*
Timestamp:
5:28pm

Adding his voice to Sarkozy's, David Cameron, the British prime minister, says that "the time for action has come".

Speaking to British television, he said:

Colonel Gaddafi has made this happen. He has lied to the international community, he has promised a ceasefire, he has broken that ceasefire. He continues to brutalise his own people.

"And so the time for action has come. It needs to be urgent. We have to enforce the will of the United Nations and we cannot allow the slaughter of civilians to continue.

What is absolutely clear today is that Colonel Gaddafi has broken his word, has broken the ceasefire and continues to slaughter his own civilians. This has to stop. We have to make it stop, we have to make him face the consequences.

"I think it is vitally important that action takes place, that action takes place urgently."

*
Timestamp:
5:39pm

The ANSA news agency quotes Silvio Burlesconi, the Italian prime minister, as saying that Italy is only providing air bases for the operation against Libya at the moment, but could take further part if need be.

Earlier, al-Arabiya television reported that Italian planes were flying surveillance missions over Libya.
*
Timestamp:
5:42pm

The Organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC) has held a meeting of its executive committee in Jeddah on the situation in Libya.

The body has called on member-states to begin establishing contacts with the Benghazi-based opposition's National Council. Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu, the body's secretary-general said:

Since legitimacy emanates from the people and if force is utilised against the people, legitimacy loses its foundations. Therefore we call upon the OIC members states to establish contacts with the Libyan interim national council."

*
Timestamp:
5:48pm

US officials say that while their ships and aircraft are ready to take part in military action in Libya, they have not done so yet.
*
Timestamp:
5:52pm
Qatar and several European nations, including Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark and Norway have confirmed that they will be taking part in a UN-sanctioned military intervention in Libya, AFP reports, citing a diplomatic source.
*
Timestamp:
6:07pm

Libyan state television is currently broadcasting live footage of pro-Gaddafi rallies in Tripoli, Sirte and Bab Azaziya.
*
Timestamp:
6:11pm
Al Jazeera's Tony Birtley in Benghazi reports that while attacks by pro-Gaddafi forces have subsided for now, but opposition fighters expect another offensive tonight.
*
Timestamp:
6:15pm

In brief comments in the Brazilian capital, Brasilia, Barack Obama, the US president, says that the people of Libya must be protected and that the United States is ready to act in that country.

He also said he joins Brazil in condemning human rights abuses in Libya.
*
Timestamp:
6:27pm

Hillary Clinton, the US Secretary of State, is speaking after the summit in Paris right now.
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Old 19 Mar 11, 13:25
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Here is what we have and where we have it.

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Al Jazeera latest:

#
6:35pm

Clinton asserts that the United States remains concerned about Iranian influence in the Gulf, and also underscored the point that the United States was acting as part of a "broad international effort".

A full transcript will follow after her comments are completed.

6:53pm

France says it will send its Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier to waters off Libya, the defence ministry says.

In case you're wondering what it looks like, here's a file photo from GALLO/GETTY.



#
6:59pm

Reuters, quoting the French defence ministry, reports that a French plane has fired the first live fire shots in Libya, targetting a vehicle at 1645GMT.

6:59pm

Reuters, quoting the French defence ministry, reports that a French plane has fired the first live fire shots in Libya, targetting a vehicle at 1645GMT.

7:16pm

"A first target was engaged and destroyed," Laurent Teisseire, a French defence ministry spokesman, has told Reuters.


7:20pm

Spanish F-18 fighter jets are preparing to take part in enforcing UN Resolution 1973.

7:31pm

One of the more interesting statements that Secretary Clinton made was in highlighting US concern of Iranian "activity" in the Gulf.

That transcript of her statements is coming shortly.


7:35pm

Secretary Clinton's remarks following the summit in Paris:

First, let's remember how we got here. As you know, Americans and people around the world, watched with growing concern as Libyan civilians were gunned down by a government that has lost all legitimacy. The people of Libya appealed for help.

"The Arab League and the Gulf Cooperation Council called for action. The international community came together to speak with one voice and deliver a clear and consistent message: Colonel Gaddafi's campaign of violence against his own people must stop.

"The strong votes in the UN Security Council underscored this unity. And now the Gaddafi forces face unambiguous terms. A ceasefire must be implemented immediately. That means all attacks against civilians must stop.

"Troops must stop advancing on Benghazi, and pull back from Ajdabiyah, Misurata and Az Zawiyah. Water, electricity and gas supplies must be turned on to all areas. Humanitarian assistance must be allowed to reach the people of Libya.

"Yesterday President Obama said very clearly that if Gaddafi failed to comply with these terms, there would be consequences. Since the president spoke, there has been some talk from Tripoli of a ceasefire, but the reality on the ground tells a very different story.

"Colonel Gaddafi continues to defy the world.

"His attacks on civilians go on. Today we have been monitoring the troubling reports of fighting around and within Benghazi itself. As president Obama also said, we have every reason to fear that left unchecked, Gaddafi will commit unspeakable atrocities.

"It is against that backdrop that nations from across the region and the world met today here in Paris to discuss the ways we can, working together, implement UN Resolution 1973. We all recognise that further delay will only put more civilians at risk.

"So let me be very clear about the position of the United States. We will support an international coalition as it takes all necessary measures to enforce the terms of resolution 1973. As you may know, French planes are already in the skies above Benghazi.

"Now America has unique capabilities and we will bring them to bear, to help our European and Canadian allies and Arab partners stop further violence against civilians, including through the effective implementation of a no-fly zone.

"As President Obama said, the US will not deploy ground troops, but there should be no mistaking our committment to this effort.

"Today I was able to discuss next steps with the full group, and also conduct smaller, focused conversations with many of my colleagues. I met first with President Sarkozy and Prime Minister Cameron. Both France and the United Kingdom, along with other key partners, have stepped forward to play a leading role in enforcing 1973.

"We reviewed the latest reports from the ground, and discussed how we can work together most effectively in the hours and days ahead, and how we would work very cooperatively with our other partners, including Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Germany, Greece, Italy, Lithuania, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Spain, Turkey as well as others that are not in that long list.

"I also had the opportunity to engage today with my Arab counterparts ...

"We have said from the start that Arab leadership and participation in this effort is crucial, and the Arab League showed that with its pivotal statements on Libya, what really that meant: it changed the diplomatic landscape.

"They have sent another strong message by being here today, and we look to them for continued leadership as well as active participation and leadership going forward.

"With Sheikh Abdullah [bin Zayed of the UAE] and [Qatari] prime minister Hamad bin Jassem, I reiterated our strong and enduring partnership. The United States has an abiding commitment to Gulf security, and a top priority is working together with our partners on our shared concerns about Iranian behaviour in the region.

"We share the view that Iran's activities in the Gulf, including its efforts to advance its agenda in neighbouring continues undermines peace and stability. Our Gulf partners are critical to the international community's efforts on Libya, and we thank them for their leadership."


7:39pm

Secretary Clinton closed her statements with comments on her "constructive" discussions with GCC leaders on the evolving situation in Bahrain, as well a reiteration of the urgent humanitarian aid need in Libya, particularly on the borders with Egypt and Tunisia.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Franz View Post
Not really -- they are not interchangeable -- casing doesn't fit and the round is larger - minutely - but larger

I thought exactly the same thing - so I looked it up on Wiki ( I cheated)

I didn't go that far. However, 12.7mm is 1/2 inch.
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Old 19 Mar 11, 14:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer86g View Post
I didn't go that far. However, 12.7mm is 1/2 inch.
yep -- but they claim the 12.7 will not chamber in a 50 caliber
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Old 19 Mar 11, 14:40
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I checked Navy.mil. They definitely seem to be using .50 cal and 12.7 mm interchangeably and inconsistently. One LHD lists it's armament as including .50 cal while another says 12.7 mm for the same class of ship. There were no Navy 'fact file' pages for weapons below 20mm.

AFAIK, the only difference in US .5" machine guns is the linkage. An M2HB can't use the ammo for an M85 because the links are not compatible.

US and WP manufactured 12.7 mm casings are not the same dimensions. That may be where the wiki author was going?
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