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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > The Middle East

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The Middle East Asia Minor, the Arab Mahgreb, and the Persian Gulf to include tensions between Israel and its Arab neighbors, Terrorist organizations and Iran.

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  #226  
Old 18 Mar 11, 16:57
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I'm going to guess that Qaddafi is not too interested in withdrawing from Ajdabiyah, Misurata and Az Zawiyah - the UN forces will have to find a way to pry him out.

That may be hard to do with "no boots on the ground" -- I wonder how anyone proposes to get him to pull back.

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  #227  
Old 18 Mar 11, 16:59
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He also said that, "if the rebels attack, we attack back."
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  #228  
Old 18 Mar 11, 17:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philiplaos View Post
I also find the constant Obama insults tedious and annoying.

Philip
Those only occur when he is brought into the conversation - leave him out and there will be no need to suffer tedium and annoyance

Philip -- I'm not trying to pick a fight with you -- I respect the work you are doing and find it informative

Let's leave the Political agenda at the door to this thread and not bring BHO into the conversation here - we'll both be happy because I won't feel compelled to respond

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  #229  
Old 18 Mar 11, 17:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philiplaos View Post
He also said that, "if the rebels attack, we attack back."
I can understand Qaddafi saying that -- and that gives him complete freedom to do what he wants.

All he has to claim is that his people came under fire -- and as the locals have been shooting guns into the air for "thousands" of years - a single "air" shot could cause him to resume an attack.

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  #230  
Old 18 Mar 11, 17:11
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Originally Posted by Kaiser Franz View Post
Those only occur when he is brought into the conversation - leave him out and there will be no need to suffer tedium and annoyance

Philip -- I'm not trying to pick a fight with you -- I respect the work you are doing and find it informative

Let's leave the Political agenda at the door to this thread and not bring BHO into the conversation here - we'll both be happy because I won't feel compelled to respond

Obama speaking on the Libyan topic is as important to the discussion as any other world leader speaking on the topic, and it has absolutely nothing to do with a political agenda until you, yourself, make it one. You are not a unique snowflake -- this thread's discussion does not revolve around what you accept as news worthy.
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  #231  
Old 18 Mar 11, 17:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Franz View Post
I can understand Qaddafi saying that -- and that gives him complete freedom to do what he wants.

All he has to claim is that his people came under fire -- and as the locals have been shooting guns into the air for "thousands" of years - a single "air" shot could cause him to resume an attack.

The definition of 'civilians', who the UN resolution are mandated to protect, is an issue. If Gadhaffi attacks rebels, he will say they are an armed resistance. The other side will say they are civilians, some of whom happened to be carrying AK47s.


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  #232  
Old 18 Mar 11, 17:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPLovecraft View Post
Obama speaking on the Libyan topic is as important to the discussion as any other world leader speaking on the topic, and it has absolutely nothing to do with a political agenda until you, yourself, make it one. You are not a unique snowflake -- this thread's discussion does not revolve around what you accept as news worthy.
I have tried to tell you nicely that this is not the thread for this topic -- I will not discuss it further with you HERE -- pick another thread and we can continue there
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  #233  
Old 18 Mar 11, 17:22
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You are still the one who makes it US domestic political, Kaiser. Just zip it and all will be good.
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  #234  
Old 18 Mar 11, 17:30
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Originally Posted by Redwolf View Post
You are still the one who makes it US domestic political, Kaiser. Just zip it and all will be good.
Yes -- you're right -- I find myself responding when I should just go look at another thread for a while.
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  #235  
Old 18 Mar 11, 18:06
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Latest from Al Jazeera's live blog:

10:55pm

Reuters reports that Khaled Kaim, the Libyan deputy foreign minister, has said that the presence of government troops near Benghazi does not violate the "ceasefire" called earlier today. He says that the troops will not enter Benghazi.

Kaim has invited the international community to investigate "crimes" perpetrated by the opposition in Benghazi by sending a fact-finding mission.

He has also said that the Libyan air force has been grounded, in order to comply with a UN-sanctioned no-fly zone.

10:58pm

AFP, meanwhile, reports that opposition commanders in Benghazi have urged fighters to mobilise to defend the western gates to Benghazi.

11:13pm

Reuters quotes the Libyan deputy foreign minister Khaled Kaim as saying there has been "no bombardment of any kind" by government forces in Libya since the "ceasefire" was announced earlier today.

11:19pm

More pictures coming in, this time from Ajdabiyah. [Pictures: EPA]










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  #236  
Old 18 Mar 11, 18:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwolf View Post
He patronized them when bashing other nations Wednesday and Thursday. Basically he said "nice doggy". The way it was worded after translation and press there was a bright spotlight on China for standing on the other side from where everybody else is standing.

It doesn't take much observation of China in general and their current government in particular that they really don't like that.

Ah. Okay, thanks for that reply. What must have grated was the fact that Libya was like offering a "bone" if the europeans misbehaved: if you don't act with us, we can always give it to russia, china, and india. I think that was the gist of it. I don't think that it's about china standing on the other side, it's more like, they don't want to be indicated much less used as a stooge, and an obvious one, at that. Although how much exactly it has affected their stance, we'll never really know.

Crude, crude diplomacy. Libya needs to refine it some more (pun intended).



Quote:
Originally Posted by Persephone View Post
Qaddafi did not disrespect China in anyway, at least from what I've read and heard. If someone can provide a link to show the "nice doggy" translated reference, I would love to read it.

Here's a good article showing China's reservations for the UN No-Fly Zone resolution and why they eventually cast the abstention vote. There were 2 main issues that China paused to consider before the vote.


1. China did not agree with the R2P argument for the No-Fly Zone.

2. Oil

Link to full article:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/MC19Ad01.html

Hi P,

Thanks for that reply.

I personally am a bit concerned about the "protection of civilians" clause: if that was the case, then the rebels should be warned, too, not to attack civilian areas. But I think based on the news they're also raring to fight... Is this ceasefire supposed to be one-sided? If the intention was to protect the civilians, then ALL fights must stop, not just the gov't forces.

And does the UN Resolution really require Gaddafi to leave those cities which he has already successfully retaken? If the armed rebels will be classified as civilians, does this mean Gaddafi can arm "his" civilians, too?
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  #237  
Old 18 Mar 11, 20:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMan88 View Post
And does the UN Resolution really require Gaddafi to leave those cities which he has already successfully retaken?
I'm not sure, but the U.S. President is requiring that Gadhaffi must withdraw from those cities. Here is an extract from President Obama's statement referencing the UN resolution.

"Now, once more, Muammar Gaddafi has a choice. The resolution that passed lays out very clear conditions that must be met. The United States, the United Kingdom, France and Arab states agree that a ceasefire must be implemented immediately. That means all attacks against civilians must stop. Gaddafi must stop his troops from advancing on Benghazi, pull them back from Ajdabiyah, Misurata and Az Zawiyah, and establish water, electricity and gas supplies to all areas.

"Humanitarian assistance must be allowed to reach the people of Libya.

"Let me be clear: these terms are not negotiable. These terms are not subject to negotiation. If Gaddafi does not comply with the resolution, the international community will impose consequences: the resolution will be enforced through military action.

"In this effort, the United States is prepared to act as part of an international coalition. American leadership is essential, but that does not mean acting alone. It means shaping the conditions for the international community to act together. That's why I've directed [Defense] Secretary [Robert] Gates and our military to coordinate their planning and tomorrow Secretary [of State Hillary] Clinton will travel to Paris for a meeting with our European allies and Arab partners about the enforcement of resolution 1973."

Philip
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Old 18 Mar 11, 20:58
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First real strong words Obama has spoken in a while. Lets see if he follows through with them, unlike his change slogan.
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  #239  
Old 18 Mar 11, 21:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philiplaos View Post
I'm not sure, but the U.S. President is requiring that Gadhaffi must withdraw from those cities. Here is an extract from President Obama's statement referencing the UN resolution.

"Now, once more, Muammar Gaddafi has a choice. The resolution that passed lays out very clear conditions that must be met. The United States, the United Kingdom, France and Arab states agree that a ceasefire must be implemented immediately. That means all attacks against civilians must stop. Gaddafi must stop his troops from advancing on Benghazi, pull them back from Ajdabiyah, Misurata and Az Zawiyah, and establish water, electricity and gas supplies to all areas.

"Humanitarian assistance must be allowed to reach the people of Libya.

"Let me be clear: these terms are not negotiable. These terms are not subject to negotiation. If Gaddafi does not comply with the resolution, the international community will impose consequences: the resolution will be enforced through military action.

"In this effort, the United States is prepared to act as part of an international coalition. American leadership is essential, but that does not mean acting alone. It means shaping the conditions for the international community to act together. That's why I've directed [Defense] Secretary [Robert] Gates and our military to coordinate their planning and tomorrow Secretary [of State Hillary] Clinton will travel to Paris for a meeting with our European allies and Arab partners about the enforcement of resolution 1973."

Philip
Enforcement of the "These terms are not subject to negotiation" portion of BHO's statement is a little difficult!

BHO's has already told the entire world that the US will bring NO Military Land Forces to Libya -- and now as of about an hour ago - there seems to be some doubt as to what role our aircraft will play. The latest we are hearing - here in Oklahoma - is that our AWACS Base at Tinker AFB is standing by to deploy - and that perhaps some refueling aircraft will be sent over.

There are a number of Democrats in the House of Representatives lead by Dennis Kucinich ( 10th Ohio District) that are demanding a vote of the Congress before ANY forces are committed.

They are citing a law that states the President can only commit forces - without the direct approval of Congress - in the event of a dire emergency to defend the United States -- and Libya is not presently attacking the United States (directly) -- so things are getting a bit sticky here.

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  #240  
Old 18 Mar 11, 21:11
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That is the War Powers Resolution of 1973, in which congress restricted the president's right to use the military without asking congress first. Since it has been put into question whether it is constitutional I wouldn't hold my breath that it can save Gadafi's ass. I think it is doubtful that a sufficient number of congress members want to enter this tarpit in the first place. I bet that Reagan bombed the same idiots in 1986 without asking congress.
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