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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Forum Resources > The Barracks

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The Barracks For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Members can retire from the serious discussions elsewhere on the forums...and relax here.

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  #16  
Old 12 Nov 06, 14:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthomas View Post
It's crap like this that makes me wonder why we just don't quit fooling around, call this whole War on Terror what it ought to be, the Fourth Crusade, and go in there clean the friggin' place out.
There were something like 13 or more crusades, even more if you count crusades to places outside of the 'Holy Land' like the Northern Crusades, etc.

Besides, as horrible as it is, how many people would want another war within the Middle East against a nation just to stop a horrible, barbaric practice?

You ask someone on the street, they would say Yes!, but once the gas prices shoot up and even more American's start coming back in body bags, the voters would turn on any government that send in the troops.

Like in WW2: the people never would have gone to war with Germany to stop the holocaust. But because it was happening anyway, it was just further reasons to support the war against Germany.

However, I knowone way to help stop this aboninable practice: use less gas. If we develop alternate fuels and require less from Saudi Arabia, then thier country will fall apart rather quickly. The country has nothing else economically worth anything (except maybe from tourists heading to Mecca).

And they won't be able to seduce foriegn women and pay for 'hunters' when they don't have any cash.


Or we could use a few nukes. Make alot of glass.
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  #17  
Old 12 Nov 06, 21:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daemonofdecay View Post
There were something like 13 or more crusades, even more if you count crusades to places outside of the 'Holy Land' like the Northern Crusades, etc.

Besides, as horrible as it is, how many people would want another war within the Middle East against a nation just to stop a horrible, barbaric practice?

You ask someone on the street, they would say Yes!, but once the gas prices shoot up and even more American's start coming back in body bags, the voters would turn on any government that send in the troops.

Like in WW2: the people never would have gone to war with Germany to stop the holocaust. But because it was happening anyway, it was just further reasons to support the war against Germany.

However, I knowone way to help stop this aboninable practice: use less gas. If we develop alternate fuels and require less from Saudi Arabia, then thier country will fall apart rather quickly. The country has nothing else economically worth anything (except maybe from tourists heading to Mecca).

And they won't be able to seduce foriegn women and pay for 'hunters' when they don't have any cash.


Or we could use a few nukes. Make alot of glass.
Ah, I don't really believe a war could , would, or should stop this hideous piece of human behavior. Your points are all very valid. If we could theoretically wipe the governments of every Allah-fearing state off the face of the earth, the poor ignorant masses will continue this practice as they always have....
Just reading about it first thing in the morning set me on edge.
Go in peace and keep an eye on your women.
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  #18  
Old 19 Jan 16, 06:47
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I would like to see the source document for this. I believe it is real and is a translation from the original Arabic. Does anybody have any more information? I believe it is part of a training instruction course.
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  #19  
Old 19 Jan 16, 07:43
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.Folks...I'll give you the straight dope.

The War on terror is designed to unite Islam under the banner of anti-Westernism for it's own sake.

Islam has spent many many centuries in conflict with itself. It all goes back to a split over the succession after the Prophet Mohammed died (Peace Be Upon Him), whether it was to remain "in the family" or not. The Islamic world fought over this question, and are still split over it today. They would very much like to reconcile. They are still arguing over it. Followers of the Shi-ite and Sunni sects are NEVER going to reconcile...

Unless they have a common enemy.

And we walked into it.

They are going to set aside their religious differences, and make our war on terror the be all to end all of evil. All to unite their own religon, and to legitimize age old practices like female sexual slavery, female circumcision, restricton of the rights of women, the burkha, bigamy, and a whole host of other "traditions".

while ever we are seen as the Big Bad Great Satan, they will always have a case to keep these practices alive and kicking, and we won't be able to change this while we play duplicitous politics and power play our way around the middle East.

The last time we saw open conflict between sunni and the Shi-ah was during the Iran/Iraq War. This complex little copy of trench warfare nearly bankrupted both countries.

Now, they have us to do the fighting for them.

When we pull out, as we are bound to without solving any of the problems that have existed for many centuries, WE will be seen to be "The Cause", and then no matter what their religious differences, they will be united once again, and far more powerful because of it.

It's time we saw exactly how we are being taken for, and are acting like, naive children in the middle East. these people have experience of power politics and manipulation that dwarfs anything in our experience.

And we are falling for it, hook, line, Bible, Koran and sinker.

Last edited by Drusus Nero; 19 Jan 16 at 07:49..
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  #20  
Old 19 Jan 16, 10:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug View Post
  • I was in a good mood when I began reading the article.
  • I had to stop. I couldn't finish it.
  • What kept going through my mind was, Is this true?
  • It's very difficult to learn about and be expected to tolerate other cultures and how they do things sometimes.
  • If I really said how I feel right now, it would have to be edited.
  • Time for a break.
Sadly, Slug, it is true, and has been going on for a very long time in places like Africa.

But remember - "Islam is the religion of peace."
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  #21  
Old 19 Jan 16, 17:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drusus Nero View Post
.Folks...I'll give you the straight dope.

The War on terror is designed to unite Islam under the banner of anti-Westernism for it's own sake.

Islam has spent many many centuries in conflict with itself. It all goes back to a split over the succession after the Prophet Mohammed died (Peace Be Upon Him), whether it was to remain "in the family" or not. The Islamic world fought over this question, and are still split over it today. They would very much like to reconcile. They are still arguing over it. Followers of the Shi-ite and Sunni sects are NEVER going to reconcile...

Unless they have a common enemy.

And we walked into it.

They are going to set aside their religious differences, and make our war on terror the be all to end all of evil. All to unite their own religon, and to legitimize age old practices like female sexual slavery, female circumcision, restricton of the rights of women, the burkha, bigamy, and a whole host of other "traditions".

while ever we are seen as the Big Bad Great Satan, they will always have a case to keep these practices alive and kicking, and we won't be able to change this while we play duplicitous politics and power play our way around the middle East.

The last time we saw open conflict between sunni and the Shi-ah was during the Iran/Iraq War. This complex little copy of trench warfare nearly bankrupted both countries.

Now, they have us to do the fighting for them.

When we pull out, as we are bound to without solving any of the problems that have existed for many centuries, WE will be seen to be "The Cause", and then no matter what their religious differences, they will be united once again, and far more powerful because of it.

It's time we saw exactly how we are being taken for, and are acting like, naive children in the middle East. these people have experience of power politics and manipulation that dwarfs anything in our experience.

And we are falling for it, hook, line, Bible, Koran and sinker.
I would expect this dated pile of male bovine excrement might still be making the rounds elsewhere on the 'net, but here on a military history forum?!

This sort of post would fit better on this thread;
Islam - Jihad - GWOT
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...ad.php?t=55135
...but I'd recommend reading thru and digesting the 660+ post there first, to dispel some of the ignorance you have regarding "the religion of peace"/Islam.

You are halfway there in noticing that Muslims(mostly Arabs) have been a contentious lot with each other since the beginning, but Mohammad's (**** be upon him) intent was for a religion that would unite his Arab people/tribes and hence should have remained limited to the Arabian sands. The fact that there is an "Islamic World" should be the first clue that conflict is inevitable, no matter what we in the West do, other than become correct Muslims.

Ever since Muhammad (**** be upon him) picked up a sword and led his followers in conflict upon those(non-believers/infidels) whom rejected and "made fun of" his religion, conquering and converting, Islamic dogma has embraced a concept dividing the planet into two parts. The Dar al-Islam - World of Islam, where Sharia Law is the law and rule of those realms~idealy under a Caliphate -and- the Dar al-Haram = the World of War(Infidels). And one of Muhammad's(**** be upon him) last commands (in the Hadith) was that his followers should fight the Dar al-Haram(Infidels) until the whole world was Muslim, or the Judgement Day had arrived. BTW, did you ever stop to wonder why and how Islam expanded beyond Arabia?

If you are looking for a contemporary condition of opportunity and means for restarting the 'Forever War" that Islam was designed to perpetuate, you might look a bit further back a century or so to the Zionist movement and what would eventually become the state of Israel. (Along with European colonialism in that part of the planet)

In more general terms, I'm torn between amused or amazed that you would do the "Chamberlain" thing and think that appeasement and acquiescence to a religion/ideology of global violence is the path to "peace in our times". Hopefully your future time on this forum will further your historical education and perspectives.

[Forgot about the auto edit here, the **** also known as urine. ]
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Last edited by G David Bock; 20 Jan 16 at 15:27..
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  #22  
Old 19 Jan 16, 18:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
There were something like 13 or more crusades, even more if you count crusades to places outside of the 'Holy Land' like the Northern Crusades, etc.

Besides, as horrible as it is, how many people would want another war within the Middle East against a nation just to stop a horrible, barbaric practice?

You ask someone on the street, they would say Yes!, but once the gas prices shoot up and even more American's start coming back in body bags, the voters would turn on any government that send in the troops.
The flaw is that line of reasoning is that war has broken out all over the Middle East and gas prices are the lowest they have been in decades, even with ISIS controlling Iran and Iraq.

The other flaw in your reasoning is that Americans are too cowed and wussified to turn on any government that keeps fighting useless wars. After all, BoBo has been doing it for the entire time of his presidency, and he's still in office and was re-elected.

Meanwhile, back on the actual subject, Africa represents a far greater abuse of females than Saudia Arabia. Africa also practrices slavery just as it has for over two thousand years.
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  #23  
Old 19 Jan 16, 19:24
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Wow! 9 1/2 years old.
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  #24  
Old 19 Jan 16, 20:06
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Wow! 9 1/2 years old.
Yep! It's definitely a case of the thread necrophilia!
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  #25  
Old 19 Jan 16, 20:12
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David...for gods sake...

The ONLY reason I have put the PEACE BE UPON HIM in is to avoid offending Moslems. Our website has encountered problems. How can we be certain these problems are not caused by hackers, angry at posts like yours.

If we follow the forms, they have no excuses. Look what happened to those poor journalists in France for publishing a cartoon of mohammed, something we consider perfectly legit, but raises their hackles enourmously.

I am no freind of Islam. You misinterpret my motive for showing a little diplomacy when mentioning the name of Mohammed. For the sake of our site, and for the many office workers in the Military history building that our magazine spnsors work in, show just a little self control.

I have no doubts about Islam being permanently at war with itself.

My doubt revolves around our ability to bring these many centuries of internal religious wrangling and bloodshed to an end in our lifetime.

It looks like our governemnt is going to bail out of the Middle East. Our diplomats can see the writing on the wall. Time we left these damned people to fight among themselves. Bugger their oil. Russia has as much oil as they do, now. Lets just buy the stuff from them, and drive an economic wedge between any relations Putin may have with the Middle East.

Sooner or later, we are going to have to leave the Middle East.

Best we leave it with some kind of mission accomplished. Otherwise, its just another VIETNAM.

Drusus
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  #26  
Old 19 Jan 16, 20:20
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DN, are you sure we're going to leave? I'd like to, but I'm not sure it will happen during my lifetime.
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  #27  
Old 19 Jan 16, 20:47
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Okay, Saudi Arabia is in the 21st Century going on the 12th Century... What's new?
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  #28  
Old 19 Jan 16, 21:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drusus Nero View Post
David...for gods sake...

The ONLY reason I have put the PEACE BE UPON HIM in is to avoid offending Moslems. Our website has encountered problems. How can we be certain these problems are not caused by hackers, angry at posts like yours.

If we follow the forms, they have no excuses. Look what happened to those poor journalists in France for publishing a cartoon of mohammed, something we consider perfectly legit, but raises their hackles enourmously.

I am no freind of Islam. You misinterpret my motive for showing a little diplomacy when mentioning the name of Mohammed. For the sake of our site, and for the many office workers in the Military history building that our magazine spnsors work in, show just a little self control.

I have no doubts about Islam being permanently at war with itself.

My doubt revolves around our ability to bring these many centuries of internal religious wrangling and bloodshed to an end in our lifetime.

It looks like our governemnt is going to bail out of the Middle East. Our diplomats can see the writing on the wall. Time we left these damned people to fight among themselves. Bugger their oil. Russia has as much oil as they do, now. Lets just buy the stuff from them, and drive an economic wedge between any relations Putin may have with the Middle East.

Sooner or later, we are going to have to leave the Middle East.

Best we leave it with some kind of mission accomplished. Otherwise, its just another VIETNAM.

Drusus
Chris ...

Big clue here;

They don't follow the rules or care about "form"; "ends justify any means" and you and I and everyone else are infidels and subhuman so anything goes in dealing with the halal/haram~infidels!

That's the message and results of the past 1400 years and will continue to be of the next 1400 years until you and many others grow a pair and get a clue. Unfortunately, too many of the political higher leadership in the West think like you do and try to accommodate and appease and hence why we are "losing the war" so to speak. This so-called "religion" we are dealing with is no different from the Aztecs or the NAZIs/NSDAP and until that reality sinks in, we will continue to make no gains, traction or wins.

Most people living in the Dar-al-Islam would readily change their tune to another religion or no religion if they had a choice. This is not a topic of this thread and if you get back to the topic of the thread, I'm betting about 99.99% of the women victimized as described in the OP would want that avoided and undone. I've a mother, sisters, wife, daughter, grand-daughters, etc,. and would be outraged and ready to go "nuke em" if this sort of barbarism was done to any of them.

We are dealing with the current manifestation of EVIL as plays out in this duality of the universe and have no sane or reasonable choice but to face it head on and provide more than just harsh language. As was said once; "bring it on" we are prepared to return in kind a hundred fold.

Islam is 1300 years over due for extinction, my goal is to see that accomplished long before the 22nd century appears!


We start by turning Mecca into a glass paved parking lot!
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Old 19 Jan 16, 21:18
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And Muslim men will tell you it is to protect their women.
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  #30  
Old 19 Jan 16, 22:28
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T. A. Gardner T. A. Gardner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G David Bock View Post
Most people living in the Dar-al-Islam would readily change their tune to another religion or no religion if they had a choice. This is not a topic of this thread and if you get back to the topic of the thread, I'm betting about 99.99% of the women victimized as described in the OP would want that avoided and undone. I've a mother, sisters, wife, daughter, grand-daughters, etc,. and would be outraged and ready to go "nuke em" if this sort of barbarism was done to any of them.
Been there, seen that. Saudis regularly came over to Bahrain starting Thursdays (Friday being the equivalent of Sunday here). They came for the hotel bars, bands with scantly clad singers and dances in them, and all sorts of stuff "forbidden" in the Kingdom.
The running joke they'd make is to put their hand over their eyes and say "Allah doesn't see outside the Kingdom!" to great laughter.
I doubt the majority would bang their head on the ground while mooning a rock in a box at the bottom of a football stadium while an unwashed mass of humanity swirls around it like water going down a toilet bowl...
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